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EM. "The surface layers of sediment have much more water and a texture resembling tomato ketchup. This is impossible to sample without destroying the layered information".

Rubbish! I have collected many sediment cores from carbonate accumulating areas (like Florida Bay and the Bahamas) where you introduce a quick setting resin (under pressure) before cutting the core barrel with its consolidated core in half. Apart from some minor distortions near the core barrel, all sedimentary structures are perfectly preserved.
I also used the same techniques, combined with a pile driver at Slapton Lee in Devon on peat cores.

You must have been using outdated methods.

Feb 22, 2018 at 12:32 PM | Unregistered CommenterSupertroll


I'll leave you to your world view.

Each of the points you raised has a counterargument, but answering each would take time and answering them all would take more time than I have available. That is,of course, the point of a Gish Gallop.

Describing published research as ludicrous and bollocks and announcing that you distrust whole fields of investigation also discourages debate. What point in giving you data which you feel able to arbitrarily reject?

Feb 22, 2018 at 11:24 AM | Unregistered CommenterEntropic man

Kleinfeldmaus, you mention Hungary's measures to curb migration from the south. I just spotted the following. The UNHCR says that there is a bill before the Hungarian parliament to impose a 25% tax on NGOs and to ban them from refugee centres near their borders.

To my astonishment, the UNHCR says that it is flying refugees from Libya to Italy: 315 since November of which 150 last Wednesday. This is presumably with the consent of the Italian government if not its people.

I myself am a little ambivalent on this crisis. On the one hand, efforts to alleviate some of this growing tragedy must be better than just letting these poor people drown and starve. On the other, alleviating is synonymous with facilitating, and facilitating this migration seems to increase the numbers heading north for a better life.

Feb 22, 2018 at 10:53 AM | Unregistered CommenterBrent Hargreaves

EM - when I first read your ludicrous 30m post, I thought: bollocks, there is no way a layer of ice on Greenland or anywhere even if it was 10 miles thick could exert such a strong gravitational force on the adjacent ocean that the local sea level would be 30m higher than it should be. I was going to say that if there is an anomaly it will much more likely be due to differing densities (and slow but variable motion) of the 4000 miles of magma below the ice. So thanks for posting the link to the gravitational maps, as this is exactly what they confirm. Interestingly, this is one of the main reasons I do not and have never trusted the ice-thickness and sea level from the GRACE satellites, because how can they even roughly differentiate between gravitational forces (sorry for the Newtonian term) from increased ice thickness / water depth, when these forces will be insignificant compared with the gravitational effect of a 8000 mile diameter ball of molten magma which does not have consistent densities. If I want to look at sea level data, I look at the tide gauges, and they show no increased rate of sea level rise in recent years. Here's a previous post of mine in response to your sea-level delusions, which no doubt you didn't read and instead described as gish-gallop or words to that effect:

EM - the Dutch have very good gauge data back to 1675, which shows 21st Century sea level rise is much the same as it was in the 20th Century -
330 Years of Sea Level, By Ed Caryl

for data see - and and

The Sea level gauge on the other side of the Atlantic (Battery, New York), also confirms no change in rate since 1950: NOAA, Mean Sea Level Trend, 8518750 The Battery, New York, (and NY is apparently sinking at 1.26mm pa.) Gauges in the southern hemisphere also show that that there has been no increase in the rate of sea-level rise in recent years:

Dr. Sebastian Lüning and Prof. Fritz Vahrenholt recent review of tide station data which concluded no acceleration in rise since 1940. (ave. 1.6mm/yr) in North Atlantic). New Zealand, Arctic, Australia, Pacific.

Satellites are a ridiculous way to measure sea level - as pointed out by John Daly many moons ago. Satellite data has also been subject to some very dubious adjustments recently, such as Envisat's last days.

More links -

and don't forget the historical context - e.g. raised beaches in N. Ireland and Scotland:

Sea Levels - Holocene to Roman - essay by Tony Brown: from and

So to borrow a phrase from a previous BH poster, let me know when sea levels are more than half-way up a duck's back.
Nov 19, 2014 at 9:58 AM | Registered Commenter lapogus

Feb 22, 2018 at 10:18 AM | Registered Commenterlapogus

Mark Hodgson

When you attempt to takes cores of lake sediments the older material is easy to collect. The weight of material above has squeezed the water out, giving the material a firm texture which sits easily in the tube.

The surface layers of sediment have much more water and a texture resembling tomato ketchup. This is impossible to sample without destroying the layered information.

If you want to relate the pollen data to other paleontology data you will find that the graph from Marsicek et al maps onto Marcott et al(2013) which extends to 1950.

Look at Figure 5 and Figure 6 here.

Feb 22, 2018 at 10:07 AM | Unregistered CommenterEntropic man


Maps are here.

Feb 22, 2018 at 9:45 AM | Unregistered CommenterEntropic man

Supertroll, lapogus

Sorry, I've been busy.

Look at the gravity and sea level maps here.

Note the three burnt orange areas showing both maximum gravity and maximum sea level.

The minimum sea level is 100M low relative to the reference sea level and the burnt orange areas are 80M above. That is a relative sea level variation of 180M. My 30M is not a decimal point error.

Note where the maximum sea level areas are. One sits next to the Greenland ice sheet mass concentration The other sits next to the Tibetan plateau, the largest mass concentration on Earth's surface.

Feb 22, 2018 at 9:45 AM | Unregistered CommenterEntropic man

Thanks for that link, I spent an interesting quarter hour looking at some familiar names. None of the schools being relevant as I'm the product of an underfunded state High School. Granted aided private school in same town took best pupils (on 11+ equivalent) and best teachers. A whole different can of worms for others to pore over if they want to.

Feb 22, 2018 at 8:18 AM | Unregistered CommenterUibhist a Tuath

Can you blame Viktor Orban for making a stand. It seems to me that the EU has lost all sense about - well everything. Can they not see the consequences of their actions....well I doubt it ....the Frau has other things on her mind I suppose....
EU cultural madness persists Here

Feb 22, 2018 at 6:55 AM | Unregistered CommenterKleinefeldmaus

"Hey wow" said the presenter.

Feb 22, 2018 at 4:37 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

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