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« Breaking with Jim and Dan - Josh 387 | Main | The Crisis of Germany's 'Energiewende' - Cartoon notes by Josh »

A sin of omission

The BBC was worried about primates this morning. Apparently loss of forest habitat means that our hairy cousins are facing the threat of extinction. Professor Jo Setchell is quoted in the piece as the woman with the answer though:

"...don't buy tropical timber, don't eat palm oil"

But burning palm oil to create energy seems to be fine with the good professor (and presumably the BBC's journalist, Victoria Gill) because it doesn't even warrant a mention.

Greens trashing the environment. Again.

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Reader Comments (90)

I'm still waiting for someone to name a single green policy which has not had serious adverse impact on the environment. I have no problem with bio-diesel in principle, I used to make it myself, but the destruction of rain forest to make way for palm oil plantations is an abomination.

Jan 19, 2017 at 11:21 AM | Unregistered CommenterBloke down the pub

A green suit wearing corporatist remains a corporatist.
Most likely you will not see this suit in the Canadian backwoods with tarp and knife or farming a small patch of land somewhere in the west of these Isles.

Again there is 3 types of Greens
The loverand user of wild places.
The small agrarian
And unfortunately the corporatist agent.

The modern origins of the green movement most likely stems from the inter war Kibbo Kift - in reaction to modern Industrial warfare.

It has changed radically over the years.
Now moulded into a scarcity religion of almost unlimited scope and ambition.

Jan 19, 2017 at 1:12 PM | Unregistered CommenterThe Dork of Cork

Bloke down the pub


It's my experience in West Africa that the local kleptocrats like palm oil since it's largely an export with little or no domestic market the cultivation of which is often managed by foreigners - and they can predate a slice of the action with little effort.

Beats growing food in their estimation I think.

The squawking hypocrites like Jo Setchell and Victoria Gill will tut disapprovingly at palm oil on the quinoa.

Jan 19, 2017 at 2:14 PM | Registered Commentertomo

Could the BBC do a programme about all the harm done by Palm Oil production, and why there has been an upsurge in demand?

Jan 19, 2017 at 2:14 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Yes I thought the same but included other biomass projects as a reason for tropical rain forest clearances. Funnily enough when I was almost a founder member of WWF (I left when it became a strong activist for the AGW agenda) my main reason for joining was to support efforts to stop loss of rain forest. Of course WWF has been almost totally ineffective on this subject. By the way please note that if Victoria was my daughter (she is most certainly not) my guess is that she would be telling a wholly different story probably closer to the stories that can be accessed at various places including:

Jan 19, 2017 at 2:56 PM | Unregistered CommenterPeter F Gill

A bit off-topic, I know, but I am wondering about future possibilities, and this blog is a good one for gathering ideas....

I assume that most people here would agree that an important response to global warming alarmism is to establish agreement on the science. If the alarmists make all the running, they have a track record of producing papers to justify any green policy they like - often at very short notice, simply by torturing the data...

So one Trump policy sceptics should be arguing for is for funds to address some of the more questionable aspects of 'global warming' science, and substitute real science for them. My question is: What should these be?

It would be nice to have a high-quality set of ground temperature readings. It would be great to have an extensive study of the troposphere funded, to determine if there really IS a hot-spot. One of my lighter thoughts is to fund a conference/colloquium on the topic of 'What is the ideal temperature for the Earth' - which would force alarmists to justify why they think the Little Ice Age is optimal for human survival.....

Any further ideas?

Jan 19, 2017 at 4:18 PM | Unregistered CommenterDodgy Geezer

Dodgy Geezer

The more remote sensing of the earth, climate, cloud, cosmic radiation the better. The work done by Jasper Kirkby and Henrik Svensmark should be better funded and their results not constained by the Geen Blob.

Jan 19, 2017 at 4:28 PM | Unregistered CommenterRoss Lea

Peter F Gill, I did some voluntary work for WWF in 1980/1 (?) ish. I can't see that it achieved anything to save the panda at all, but it raised money and the profile of WWF.

Growing Palm Oil represents the worst form of slash and burn agriculture, that I thought the WWF (and others) were against, back in 1980. It now also involves slashing and burning land already producing food.

Demand for Palm Oil is contrived by people in conference suites that they probably had to fly to. It must be more ecological for people to grow the food they need to eat, and sell any surplus, than grow a cash crop to buy food from somewhere else.

Unfortunately, WWF et al have become more about 6 figure salaries, and how to get the money to pay them.

FSC Certified timber is a major scam endorsed by Government Officials in parts of the world.

Jan 19, 2017 at 5:57 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

If I remember correctly, World Wildlife Fund had to re-brand itself as The Worldwide Fund for Nature in the late 80s after it emerged that over 90% of donations went on overheads, i.e. they've been mainly about salaries for a long time.

Jan 19, 2017 at 7:02 PM | Unregistered CommenterGavin

Papa foxtrot golf has to agree golf charlie on this issue. Sadly I do have to admit that for a long time I helped with funding of WWF and subsequently also Greenpeace. However, I have for quite a number of years since mended my ways while watching both organisations going similar wrong ways. There are some notable fellow escapees that require mention and I would particularly single out (i) Peter Taylor, previously a science advisor to Greenpeace International and author of the excellent book Chill - A reassessment of global warming theory and (ii) Patrick Moore, former President of Greenpeace Canada and a fan of the good that increased atmospheric carbon dioxide can offer.

Jan 19, 2017 at 7:09 PM | Unregistered CommenterPeter F Gill

EU first tinkered to ensure fuels must have a bio compoment around 10%
Now they propose to ban certain parts of the oil mix.
"At the U.S. Chamber’s Institute for 21st Century Energy Institute (EI), we are deeply concerned about the proposed amendment to the FQD that would discriminate against crudes and fuels derived from oil sands and oil shale. EI believes that the separate reporting value within the FQD is an unjustified, selective, and punitive measure that would result in disproportionate harm to U.S. exports to Europe."

See more at:

Jan 19, 2017 at 7:09 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

So Theresa May free trade deal with President Trump

Does that include cheap U S Gas and Coal ?

Jan 19, 2017 at 7:34 PM | Unregistered Commenterjamspid


Hope so.

Jan 19, 2017 at 7:56 PM | Unregistered CommenterRoss Lea

One of the funniest men of our lifetimes made relevant comments about saving threatened species :)
If you want to bathe in the glow of genious try this:

Jan 20, 2017 at 2:26 AM | Registered CommenterDung

The good news is that extra CO2 in the atmosphere will increase forest growth rates. But it needs somebody to calculate it and express it in units of "area the size of Wales" before the BBC will even consider mentioning it.

Jan 20, 2017 at 3:50 AM | Unregistered Commentermichael hart

DQ: 4% [disappointing]

Jan 20, 2017 at 7:28 AM | Unregistered CommenterShindig

Jan 20, 2017 at 2:26 AM | Dung brilliant! I am not that particular golf charlie!

Papa Foxtrot Golf, I am still someone who cares about the environment, countryside issues, nature, conservation etc, and I do believe the majority of those who support WWF (et al) do so with the right motives. Unfortunately, they are led by those selfishly pursuing a different agenda. Fluffy bunny huggers, led by foxes.

Jan 20, 2017 at 12:36 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

The size of the Palm Oil market must be increasing rapidly. The is a large number of 'futures' markets for people to buy/sell/gamble on eg:

If people are betting on a natural product, it can't be good....

Jan 20, 2017 at 12:47 PM | Unregistered CommenterSteve Richards

It is not so much fun conversing with golf charlie because so far I have agreed with everything he has said.

Jan 20, 2017 at 2:16 PM | Unregistered CommenterPeter F Gill

Peter F Gill.
For added conversational fun try the full blooded Irishness of "the -** of -* -*". Jamspit can suggest additional ways of enhancing the enjoyment. The only problem will be that you won't know if you agree or not.

Jan 20, 2017 at 3:32 PM | Unregistered CommenterSupertroll

Do you think Dork is aware that he is writing his drivel, and we are reading it, using the products of capitalism?

Jan 20, 2017 at 6:39 PM | Unregistered CommenterShindig

Congratulations Donald J Trump inaugurated 45th President of the United States.

Congratulations Mr President on 1st statement removing the United States from catastrophic suicidal Paris Climate Accord

We in the U K are still fighting and hopefully we can extradite ourselves from same.

Jan 20, 2017 at 6:59 PM | Unregistered CommenterJamspid

Shindig the various wordgames will become redundant once our host does a Dork springclean. I suggest you turn your creative energies quickly towards EM.

Jan 20, 2017 at 7:52 PM | Unregistered CommenterSupertroll

@ Dork, you make some interesting comments which are sometimes hard to get my head round :-)

had to look up "Kibbo Kift" on WIKI

The words Kibbo Kift come from archaic Cheshire dialect used to indicate 'proof of great strength'.[3] The group's initials have led some to assume a relationship to the Ku Klux Klan but this has no basis in fact (and Hargrave took great pains to correct this misapprehension in the popular press during the group's lifetime).[3] Kibbo Kift had interests in regional geography and world culture that coexisted with passionate ideas about national identity.[3] The group has been claimed to be 'the only genuine English national movement of modern times'.[4]

"In 1920 Hargrave explained what the distinctive words meant:
Kibbo Kift is an old English expression meaning literally proof of great strength – or The Strong. So today, in the woodcraft camp we speak of:KIBBO KIFT – meaning the Idea and Ideal of the Great Outdoor Trail and Open Air EducationTHE KIBBO KIFT – meaning the Woodcraft Kindred, or the people who follow the great Woodcraft TrailTO BE KIBBO KIFT – meaning to be a good camper and woodcrafter, to be a clean, strong, upright man (woman or child)"

so when you say - "Now moulded into a scarcity religion of almost unlimited scope and ambition" by "the corporatist agent"

you hit the nail on the head for me anyway.

Jan 20, 2017 at 11:49 PM | Unregistered Commenterdfhunter

Perhaps the primate most threatened with extinction, that the BBC will soon be trying to save, is the Lesser-Haired, Goatee-Bearded Climate Scientist. Their known habitats include sliced up trees, which they study briefly, before Divining Gold and riches for themselves, and abject poverty for the rest of the world. Once highly valued by the Political Elite, their popularity has dwindled, with horoscopes prepared by astrologers proving more scientific and accurate on a simple 50:50 guesswork basis.

Jan 21, 2017 at 12:46 AM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

So the climatocracy wants to not only deprive the tropics of good power supplies but I even the ability to sell their valuable abundant trees for jobs and wealth. That is climate colonialism, I would suggest.

Jan 21, 2017 at 12:04 PM | Unregistered Commenterhunter

Dork.....Dork.....where are you? I'm bored!

Jan 21, 2017 at 5:38 PM | Unregistered CommenterShindig

The best reason one has as a landowner to keep land in forest is if it has value, such as selling timber. Banning the purchase of tropical timber makes the land less valuable as forest which means it will be converted to pasture or agriculture. Poor countries can't just lock up all their forests in preserves.

Jan 21, 2017 at 7:30 PM | Unregistered Commentercc

I'm so bored waiting for Dork's next entry that I've started doing Dork haikus.

Monetary Car Credit
Equity Tokens.

Hmmm. Very profound.

Jan 22, 2017 at 8:21 AM | Unregistered CommenterShindig

I hate the word but the key to harvesting forest etc is sensible sustainability. e.g. if you have 500 plots of rain forest and you clear fell and replant on an annual basis. They started this way but greed and impatience may have ruined it.

Jan 22, 2017 at 11:03 AM | Unregistered CommenterRoss Lea


Regional burnouts
Widespread car requisitions,

Piss poor profundity.

Jan 22, 2017 at 12:23 PM | Unregistered CommenterSupertroll

Yee yee yee yee yee.
Yee yee yee yee yee yee yee.
Yee yee yee tokens.

Jan 22, 2017 at 3:35 PM | Unregistered CommenterShindig

Shindig (3.35pm). Such insight into the inner daemons of the common man, such strength of purpose without a hint of profanity. I bow before your worthiness. Glory at the economic poetic Eisteddfod awaits you.

Jan 22, 2017 at 5:24 PM | Unregistered CommenterSupertroll

You're too kind.
I've been doing some work on Homer's Iliad, so my next project will be to set some Dorkish in dactylic hexameter.

Jan 22, 2017 at 7:55 PM | Unregistered CommenterShindig


I thought Homer's iambic pentameter in The Simpsons was better.

Jan 22, 2017 at 11:04 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Shindig, Shindig
where oh where will it all end? - with Dork the Musical?
Please seek medical help before your inevitable burnout.

Jan 23, 2017 at 8:19 AM | Unregistered CommenterSupertroll

Shindig et al, If you want to be entertained you have missed the didactic cognitive dissonance of His statement: "... a scarcity religion of almost unlimited scope and ambition" with a world awash with the greatest population, and the most abundance of food, and "things", ever.

Jan 23, 2017 at 4:08 PM | Unregistered CommenterBudgie

For Poet's Corner, your first line is:

Mary had a little Mann,

Jan 23, 2017 at 5:54 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Mary had a little Mann
Unfortunately all did not go to plan
After he schemed to claim it was too hot
And Briebart and the new Pres quickly agreed.
After Steve McIntyre checked the Data feeds
That our little Mann
Spouting rot he was indeed.

Mary had a little Mann
Who foretold no more snow.
With every drift his reputation
Down and down did go.

Jan 23, 2017 at 7:04 PM | Unregistered CommenterShindig

Mary had a little Mann
His graph straight as could be
And everyone who saw it
Asked "where's the bloody Medieval Warm Period"?

My poetry gene must be similar to yours Jamspid.

Jan 23, 2017 at 7:19 PM | Unregistered CommenterSupertroll

JoNova said,

If South Australia gets any more “free energy” everyone will go broke

Jan 23, 2017 at 7:34 PM | Unregistered CommenterDon B

Mary had a little Mann.
His graph was going up.
Everyone who saw it.
Knew they'd been sold a pup.

Jan 23, 2017 at 10:43 PM | Unregistered CommenterProstetnic Vogon Jeltz

Poetry challenge

Who can make a ditty O out of this scenari O

Thursday Big Day

Every front page spread .First world leader British Brexit Prime Minister Mrs May and President Donald J Trump photo op shaking hand in the Oval Office in front of the newly restored Bust of Churchill "Ohhhh Yesssss.

Merkel and Hollande fuming.

So Downing Street Cabinet Office Phone Call last week

"Nigel mate can you ask your other mate daddy Trump if he can get Our Theresa in to see him FIRST.
Can't have the Ambassdors job that's already taken but

"Arise Sir Nige" or maybe doth caps "Yes Lord Farage of Westerham."

Jan 24, 2017 at 12:05 AM | Unregistered CommenterJamspid

Will be the perfect Art of the Deal

Donald wants to meet the Queen before she croaks and Theresa wants to dodge questions about dodging dodgy missiles.

Jan 24, 2017 at 12:40 AM | Unregistered CommenterJamspid

Mary had a little Mann,
Complete with Crooked Stick
He said he'd set her world on fire,
But could not adjust his wick.

Jan 24, 2017 at 1:12 AM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Mary had a little mann
whose fleece was an artifact
of history down the memory whole,
one tree and hokey stats.

Jan 24, 2017 at 7:53 AM | Unregistered CommenterBeth Cooper

Mary had a little Mann
So fond of litigation
He picked on Ball and Styne
And found legal constipation

Jan 24, 2017 at 9:26 AM | Unregistered CommenterSupertroll

Next Dorkish challenge: set his thoughts to the tune of 'Modern Major General' - as someone did with the Periodic Table many years ago. Tom Lehrer?

Jan 24, 2017 at 11:01 AM | Unregistered CommenterShindig

BBC simply talks of any and everything we shouldn't mind much of it.

- Peter @ ZArchiver

Jan 24, 2017 at 11:24 AM | Unregistered CommenterPeter Theil

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