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« Myron Ebell in transit - Cartoon notes by Josh | Main | A sin of omission »

Breaking with Jim and Dan - Josh 387

"Alternative facts" are the new thing.

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Cartoons by Josh

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Reader Comments (62)

2016 was the hottest year evah.

The MWP and LIA didn't exist.

Ocean acidification is happening.

Climate Science, where ALL facts have alternatives.

Jan 25, 2017 at 4:37 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Now that a new " conservative" variation of the dog and Pony show is embedding itself within the political landscape it has become apparent that the only objective is to manage the message rather then to solve the basic problem ( The price, income gap)

Fascists are all the same.
They talk a good anti usury game until installed into power.
This false nationalism is merely used to manage financial concentration rather then to solve it on a fundamental level.

Jan 25, 2017 at 4:37 PM | Unregistered CommenterThe Dork of Cork


If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts.

Alarmists didn't like The Pause, so they adjusted the temperature data. Alternative Facts.

Jan 25, 2017 at 4:56 PM | Unregistered CommenterDon B

People with huge experience of throttling industry in the USA, are soon to be released from the constraints of Government employment in the EPA, so they can offer their services direct to industry in the USA.

Issues of over supply are unlikely to increase demand, but none of them ever understood basic economics anyway.

Jan 25, 2017 at 5:38 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Josh…you have been watching to much CBSN.

However, a charicture of Anne Marie Greene as the anchor would go down well in the states.

Jan 25, 2017 at 5:56 PM | Unregistered CommenterAnoneumouse

Pilger labels the Neoliberal Guardian, BBC, NYT anti journalism.

Jan 25, 2017 at 7:55 PM | Unregistered Commentere smiff

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, President Matt McGrath at the BBC asks "Are the recent actions taken by the Trump team on the issues of climate and energy the opening shots in a war on knowledge?" Complete with quotes from the climate-smashing Bob Ward and his Grantham Institute, certainly no strangers to the front line of any war on knowledge.

Jan 26, 2017 at 5:32 AM | Unregistered Commentermichael hart

e smiff - thanks for link to the John Pilger interview on RT - very good.

Jan 26, 2017 at 6:27 AM | Registered Commenterlapogus


Julian Assange's comprehensive dissection of Hillary Clinton's criminal activities. Interview with John Pilger.

Jan 26, 2017 at 7:59 AM | Unregistered Commenteresmiff

michael hart

Indeed, there is a vast information war being engaged by the usual suspects. Here is someone not often quoted on BH.

"Science shows “Man-made” Climate Change is #FakeScience and fraud and the real world is cooling.

Piers Corbyn

1. CO2 levels are an effect not a cause of climate (world temperature) changes.
Actual scientific data shows CO2 levels follow (ocean) temperatures by some hundreds of years eg at the end of
ice ages (Slide 17+18).

2. Even if CO2 were a driver of climate and temperatures the idea that Man’s CO2 -
which contributes only 4% of the total flux of CO2 in and out of sea/land – controls
the other 96% is a deranged conspiracy-of-nature-theory for which there is no

Termites produce 10x Man’s CO2 equivalent so if CO2 is a problem we should have war on termites

Jan 26, 2017 at 8:04 AM | Unregistered Commenteresmiff

Manmade climate change is Fake News.

End of.....

Jan 26, 2017 at 9:19 AM | Unregistered Commentersherlock1

There are no alternative facts , but , witness GWPF and this blog, plenty of alternative factoids for P-R flacks & spin doctors to deploy

Jan 26, 2017 at 11:13 AM | Unregistered CommenterRussell

Photo ID those Hillary votes, and you may have 'photo finish'.

Jan 26, 2017 at 12:54 PM | Unregistered Commenterkim


What is the best evidence you are aware of that tells us that human beings are warming the earth so dangerously, CO2 levels must be curtailed in accord with the Paris agreement.

cheers !

Jan 26, 2017 at 1:12 PM | Unregistered Commenteresmiff

vvussell, if all climate science has ever had to offer is third rate impersonations of genuine scientists, do you wonder why it has all gone wrong?

Jan 26, 2017 at 1:34 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

This new virago, Alternative Fact, seems just the latest Fake News.....

Jan 26, 2017 at 4:57 PM | Unregistered CommenterPdenorte

Or worse still...why you feel so at home with Mann Made Global Warming (tm) scientists vvussell :)


Jan 26, 2017 at 5:18 PM | Unregistered CommenterMailman

We passed alternate facts a good while ago.
It's alternate realities at this point.

Jan 26, 2017 at 6:24 PM | Unregistered CommenterJohn Smith

"People with huge experience of throttling industry in the USA, are soon to be released from the constraints of Government employment in the EPA, so they can offer their services direct to industry in the USA.

Issues of over supply are unlikely to increase demand, but none of them ever understood basic economics anyway.

Jan 25, 2017 at 5:38 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie "

Ergo: The next wave of panhandlers and indigents wandering the streets of our cities. Or they start acting like real scientists; which probably requires a number of refresher courses.

Jan 26, 2017 at 11:41 PM | Unregistered CommenterATheoK

Thanks a lot.

Mayuri @ Task Bucks

Jan 27, 2017 at 6:06 PM | Unregistered CommenterMayuri Sheka

Thanks Josh

it really is funny to watch the MSM & the usual hangers on/big thinkers run in circles over all this.

they really think they are only ones the average person ever takes advice from & trusts & that superiority complex means they know/can predict outcomes.

must be hard to realise most of your opinions are just that & people can see through spin (false this, false that, what's new).

no doubt Lew has this covered in a new Lew paper.

Jan 27, 2017 at 11:08 PM | Unregistered CommenterDougieh

VVatts Up With That — fake news from a fake website.

Jan 28, 2017 at 6:24 AM | Unregistered CommenterChris Hanley

Data? Examples? Analysis? Rational argument? Or are we just supposed to bow to your opinion because you are the one and only Chris Hanley?

Jan 28, 2017 at 10:58 AM | Unregistered CommenterBudgie

Data? Examples? Analysis? Rational argument? Or are we just supposed to bow to your opinion because you are the one and only Chris Hanley?

Jan 28, 2017 at 10:58 AM | Unregistered CommenterBudgie

At a minimum the VVVussell is clearly passing off with his website name designed to imitate WUWT and thus lure internet traffic. Most commercial organisations would be successfully dragging his ass through the courts for much less.

Jan 28, 2017 at 12:47 PM | Unregistered Commentermichael hart

Budgie: perhaps you should be more careful with your reading – the site Chris Hanley is referring to was from the link above, where we were shown the remarkable scientific revelation that Mr Trump’s campaign manager has a taste for an eye-catching wardrobe, as previously parodied in a film. Astonishing insight (NOT). (Mind you, that is, in all probability, why the ever-tasteful and perspicacious Mr Russell has chosen such a label for his (no comments allowed; I have spoken and cannot be contradicted) blog site.)

Jan 28, 2017 at 12:52 PM | Registered CommenterRadical Rodent

This is great.

- Rohan @ Clean Master.

Jan 28, 2017 at 1:08 PM | Unregistered CommenterRohan Sharma

GC, Michael and the Rodent give themselves and the rest of Watt's acolytes too little credit-

Josh may assert that "Alternative facts" are the new thing." but the denialosphere practically owns the franchise:

Nobody can beat Tony's long running exercise in self-parody for serial credulity in the service of P-R, for no one else has serially suspended disbelief in so many bogus , scinetifically ridiculous , and just plain funny, alternative hypotheses .

From Sky Dragons and the Iron Sun , to underwater volcanoes and the substitution of gravity for radiative forcing as an explanation for climate change, Watts Up With That belongs in the same pantheon as The Onion, National Lampoon, and the indispensible Pseud's Corner section of Private Eye.

Jan 28, 2017 at 7:10 PM | Unregistered CommenterRussell

Mr Russell, might I point out that any comments that you post on here are open for debate, and/or ridicule – you do not have the same protections you have given yourself on your own site.

I take it that this “denialosphere” that you mention includes those who cannot accept that the temperatures have not risen significantly so far this century, or that sea levels are not rising at unprecedented rates, or that the oceans are not in danger of becoming acidic; Entropic man will be so pleased that he has some acknowledgement.

Perhaps you should also be aware that, in civilised debate, the usual form is to isolate a point of discussion, and then provide evidence to counter the point. If you are to isolate a particular individual – such as “Tony”, in this case – then you have to give examples of where you think they have erred, and not just attack his (or her, I suppose, though it would normally be spelled “Toni”) character; that is what is referred to in the more intellectual circles as an ad hominem argument, and is usually treated with the same derision as barracking by a troll.

Jan 28, 2017 at 8:22 PM | Registered CommenterRadical Rodent

@RR Truth seekers or Disrupters ?
It is a dead give away that some seeks to confuse rather than enlighten; sayings like :

"Alternative Truth" sneer sneer !
... Of course you can have alternative truths if their are loose semantics.
eg sparse crowd photos of Trumps inauguration are TRUE, but it's just they were taken deceptively when the crowd wasn't peak or in places where trees obscured views.

"Trump didn't in a mandate"
..Even heard BBC staff say that ..Yes he didn't with the hypothetical popular vote, cos there wasn't one, just your state vote as the election system is by electoral college.
If the election was done by popular vote he would have done big campaigning in NY and CA

Jan 28, 2017 at 9:09 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

I suggest you read the Notice on the sidebar of VVatts Up-- Tony is , in contradistinction, at liberty to waste his time and his censors in keeping their tree house at once well stocked with idiocy and free from scientists and scientific commonsense, but why should anyone sanely engaged in scientific conversation want to follow their example and indule "alternative facts " at the expense of reality ?

Don't you have a pile of scientific journals in need of reading overflowing from your desk?

Jan 28, 2017 at 9:23 PM | Unregistered CommenterRussell

Sorry, Mr Russell, but you do appear to be rambling – though one alternative fact could be that your fingers are not as nimble over the keyboard as you like to think, before you press “Create Post”. Do what I do – prepare the comment in a word-processing program, where spelling errors can be highlighted, and you can perform your own proof-reading prior to publishing (a note for you, too, stewgreen).

Anyhoo… as you seem unable or unwilling to engage is reasonable scientific debate but prefer merely to indulge in character-assassination of Tony, then it would appear that you have opted for trolling, so should really be ignored.

Jan 28, 2017 at 9:54 PM | Registered CommenterRadical Rodent

The whole point in science is considering alternative hypotheses to the ones are established and that people think are "true".

My Typo above "Trump didn't even have a mandate"

Jan 28, 2017 at 9:56 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Rodent, the beauty of scientific publication is that besides reviewers to check that facts are real, and not alternative, you get eagle-eyed editorial assistants who check for Spellcheck solecisms as well as typos.

Jan 28, 2017 at 10:26 PM | Unregistered CommenterRussell

vvussell, the appeal to climate scientists has been the complete incompetence of the Peer Review process, but obviously they all found it mutually rewarding.

If you think you are helping the credibility of Climate Science, do carry on. I don't think I am the only one who realised there was something wrong about Mann's alternative facts, that he claimed were science, in his infamous Hockey Stick.

I take it you would be happy for all books, records and articles within Harvard Libraries that mention the Medieval Warm Period to be trashed because you have sworn an oath of allegiance to Mann's Hockey Stick as being a true and accurate depiction of earth's temperature? Aren't you supposed to know something about archaeology and history?

Jan 29, 2017 at 12:35 AM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

God's teeth- it really seems his wit's diseased !

Jan 29, 2017 at 3:06 AM | Unregistered CommenterRussell

Meanwhile, The Sunday Times reports a likely spat between Donald Trump and Prince Charles over climate change, during the up-coming state visit..

Popcorn at the ready, folks....

Jan 29, 2017 at 11:14 AM | Unregistered Commentersherlock1

vvussell, so do you ignore history and archaeology to believe in Mann's Hockey Stick? One way or another, you ought to reconcile your own conflicting belief systems, or at least have the honesty to acknowledge them, rather than wallow in denial.

History and archaeology have both stood the test of time, with alterations and adjustments made in the light of new discoveries and/or evidence, and has steadily improved.

Climate Science started with mistakes, lies and false assumptions, and has got worse ever since.

What convinces YOU that Mann is correct, and both history and archaeology are wrong about the Medieval Warm Period? Or does your knowledge of history and archaeology not go further back than the Boston Tea Party?

Jan 29, 2017 at 12:36 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

GC, there is an alternative fact to the response you received: you have opened Mr Russell’s eyes, and he has realised how daft Mr Mann has been. He may not have been talking about you – put your vanity away! (hehehehe)

Jan 29, 2017 at 1:24 PM | Registered CommenterRadical Rodent

Trumped logic.....

Jan 29, 2017 at 3:33 PM | Unregistered CommenterThe Dork of Cork

A fact is; there can be no “alternative” fact. However, there can be alternative ways of viewing a fact – is a drinking receptacle that contains liquid of a volume approximately 50% of its total capacity half-full or half-empty? There are even more ways to interpret any answer given…

Ain’t life complicated?

Jan 29, 2017 at 4:13 PM | Registered CommenterRadical Rodent

RR. Now there's a fact!!!

Jan 29, 2017 at 4:16 PM | Unregistered CommenterSupertroll

Radical Rodent said: "Budgie: perhaps you should be more careful with your reading ..."

Indeed you are correct. I mistook "VVatts Up With That" for "Watts Up With That". I suppose that is what Russell intended. There was no link in Chris Hanley's comment, and I did not follow Russell's own link, not being aware of the connection. My comment was therefore in error, and I apologise to Chris Hanley.

Jan 29, 2017 at 4:38 PM | Unregistered CommenterBudgie

Yes, Budgie, that is very probably the intention – “affectionately” referred to as click-bait, in certain circles; fraud, in others.

Yes, Minty. It is odd that there could be so many people out there who are convinced that their own particular interpretation of the facts can be the only correct interpretation.

Jan 29, 2017 at 6:23 PM | Registered CommenterRadical Rodent

Budgie, unfortunately, vvussell will take that as one of the biggest achievements in his career, which has degenerated into failure and deception.

Jan 29, 2017 at 7:02 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Budgie, what does that tell you about Watts' capacity for self-parody ?

Jan 29, 2017 at 8:04 PM | Unregistered CommenterRussell

Heh, if it weren't for the bait, R, there'd be no clicks. I'm reminded that the second mouse gets the cheese.

As for the dairy herd run by Anthony, I don't need no butterfly when he gives me the whole damn zoo.

Jan 29, 2017 at 10:22 PM | Unregistered Commenterkim

Has it escaped Kim's notice that , unlike its cheesy namesake, there is no advertising on my blog?

Budgie does no seem to have read the full title either:

VVatts Up With That ?

Jan 29, 2017 at 10:37 PM | Unregistered CommenterRussell

vvussell, the insanity is all yours, along with your belief in Climate Science. You should have stuck with History and Archaeology rather than further discrediting Harvard's reputation.

Are you going to be a character witness for Mann? It seems those that share such a unique perspective of dishonesty in science must stick together.

Jan 29, 2017 at 11:31 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

At Trick Clicks,
dissembling but
' no advertising.'

Jan 30, 2017 at 12:29 AM | Unregistered CommenterBeth Cooper

Heh, it has escaped my noses. I'm not the first or the second mouse; I only like places that are so crowded nobody ever goes there anymore. Do not send to know by whom the cat is belled, you are the clapper, you are the walrussel, left out of Harvard, fleeing sans scabbard, shield castawayer, lost and not on it.

Jan 30, 2017 at 1:21 AM | Unregistered Commenterkim

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