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A few sites I've stumbled across recently....

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@Tomo WWF do that story at the start of every year
Its always bogus maths

Jan 11, 2018 at 3:57 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

I've seen this #metoo thing around for the last few weeks ... I just noticed that my local MP has foregone the demonising of coffee cups and moved on to teabags - really

Jan 11, 2018 at 3:24 PM | Registered Commentertomo


Start-up ? GE's truck sets quote 10 minutes (hot) minimum.

The turbine will run up + ignite in 2 minutes or so - but I'd expect that some thermal equilibration is required before connecting it to a full continuous rated load. Gas turbines react badly (catastrophically in some cases) to mismanaged start and loading - so starting has to be done in a carefully tiered fashion. Shredding the expensive innards via rough handling looks remarkably easy to do (in seconds....).

As an aside - there isn't as big a difference between idling and full throttle fuel consumption in gas turbines as there is with diesel engines - so having them warm, spinning, waiting to pick up a load is very wasteful.

As Rhoda says - us energy junkies will end up having to pony up for Drax's foray into "renewables"

Jan 11, 2018 at 2:51 PM | Registered Commentertomo

Ah yes! well done Rhoda. It's an automatic change-over UPS. So the capacity only has to last a minute or so. How long to start up a gas turbine in open cycle mode?


Jan 11, 2018 at 2:36 PM | Unregistered CommenterSimonJ

GC, it IS a battery for wind and solar. When they don't deliver the battery will allow the gas generators to ramp up. Of course anyone reasonable might think that was the responsibility of the wind and solar folks, but this is a more practical solution from an engineering point of view, one battery at the reliable site rather than one each for the unreliables. The proof of the pudding is who pays for the battery, but I expect it will be me any way they slice it.

Jan 11, 2018 at 1:56 PM | Unregistered Commenterrhoda

Since 1970 we've lost 58% of global wildlife so WWF say

Jan 11, 2018 at 1:21 PM | tomo

WWF lie about Polar Bears being threatened by Global Warming, when there are more Polar Bears than there were. WWF are only good at the maths of raising money.

Jan 11, 2018 at 1:53 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

SimonJ, what is the battery actually going to do?

I can understand the theory behind batteries for windmills and solar, as an attempt to balance surplus supply with increased demand, even if advocates don't understand the impracticality. Are the batteries included as a sweetner for Planners, so that wind and solar WON'T have to provide their own?

Jan 11, 2018 at 1:45 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie


thanks for that.

Somebody should take Drax to task over paywalling the planning thing. After all - adding a page to their own web site and copying and pasting would cost an order of magnitude less (at least) than a full page in The Times. I suppose it gives the twerps in the board room something to pass around.

Looks like they are finessing the thing in order to try and control public reaction - which they are absolutely entitled to do - but elaborating the engineering / business case for the battery doesn't look like it's on the agenda. I'd be interested to see what the charged out (no pun) pricing for the battery will be and wonder if it'll get a snappy branding along the lines of E-STOR.

Jan 11, 2018 at 1:35 PM | Registered Commentertomo

seeing the reference below to Drax, did anyone read the planning application (or some similar process) taking up one whole page in Wednesday's Times for two new gas generators at Drax?
It is for 2 units of 1,800MW generators, each driven by 2 gas turbines burning natural gas. The interesting thing was that they were to operate as open AND closed cycle units. Didn't know you could do that!
However, the other interesting bit (and from my engineering pedant's point of view, infuriating) is the addition to each unit of a battery of 100MW capacity.
I kept screaming that 100MW means nothing for a battery without a time unit in there, but the paper refused to clarify. The documents will all be available on their website ( on 5th Feb, so it might be clearer then.
Anyway, it is excellent reading, if you fancy some bullsh*t. But no mention of coffee cups.

Jan 11, 2018 at 1:21 PM | Unregistered CommenterSimonJ

Since 1970 we've lost 58% of global wildlife so WWF say

Jan 11, 2018 at 1:21 PM | Registered Commentertomo

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