Gwen, you and I have been friends for years, we have competed over the last or the biggest laugh on innumerable occasions (I lose), and I gratefully acknowledge your unflinching support when I have been piled into by crowds of opponents on BH in the past. With this in mind I need to tell you that your near constant interventions waving your anti- Mann hockeystick banner are getting worrisome (to me at least), particularly when addressed to Phil. Have you noted that Phil now tends to ignore them completely, so they are ineffective, just irritating.
I don't really care if Phil is one person or a Borg, he can be an irritant but also a good source of information. Look at his 1.06 pm effort today. The fact that you now rely upon circumstantial evidence is also worrisome.
I long for a return of your incomparable wit, capable of making us wreck our keyboards with spilled coffee or risk injuries from chair falling.
Take care and forgive if I have caused offense.

Too late. What I considered a useful addition to the discussion by Phil (1.06pm today) is branded a rant (because of who wrote it?)

Yeah I got trolled.

Trolls weave their way through discussions swerving challenges and looking for more vituperative opportunities (sound familiar?)

Politic-ing in a plague .... very clear indeed that that's one springboard that our house troll(s) regularly launch him/them selves off.

As to "losing a debate" that's of little or no consequence when the troll repeatedly shifts away from the subject - which "debate" would that be?

It was entirely predictable that the TDS crew would go after "Trump's fish tank cleaner" - but even *if* it works (repeating myself yet again) - it's a hand fire extinguisher when the building is well alight. In NY in particular, one simply has to look at the pronouncements of elected officials + their allied bureaucrats over the last few weeks (go to cinemas!, go to resstaurants!, hug people!) to see that the balance of politicisation in that city at least has been do / say the opposite of what Trump says / does - as if he pulls absolutely everything out of his yuge arse.

anyhoo - back to chloroquine - why might the UK place restrictions on the movement of UK stocks? (some time back)

The efficacy of a treatment pivots on the point at which it is used. Something that suppresses viral acquisition is wholly different from something deployed in extremis when the immune system is in meltdown. There's no magic bullet yet and identifying helpful medications isn't, in the discovery phase - a clean process. Iteration is key to innovation and multiple strands are being iterated right now = needs must.

More information about the virus and its pathology is being discovered every day - it would be something to celebrate if an Achilles heel is pinpointed. There are thousands of people working on characterising and attacking this virus - ascribing political motivations to them, yeah.... that's a brilliant wheeze.

It rather looks like the WHO's grip on authoritativeness has been rather badly damaged - and that cannot be a good thing.

It does suggest that it is possible there really is little going around the streets here.

Same here. I'm in the Peak District in a remote village. Total confirmed cases for Derbyshire is 170, even if there were 100 undetected cases for each confirmed (more likely 10-20) that would equate to just 2% of the population, or 1 in 50 people. None of my friends and family (and their friends and family) have the illness. Of course we follow all the precautions and have only left the house to go for walks since the lockdown started, but I think at the moment the risk of infection around here is minor.

"Have you noted that Phil now tends to ignore them completely, so they are ineffective, just irritating."
Mar 29, 2020 at 1:51 PM AK

Have you noticed that the Phil Clarke collective can't defend Mann's Hockey Stick?
Have you noticed that I have asked Phil Clarke and Entropic Mann if they would like to get honest about the bits of Climate Science that should not be dumped?
Have you noticed that I have always acknowledged that the climate always changes?
Have you noticed that I have never discounted the possibility that man-made CO2 MAY have minor involvement?
I would like to know whether there is some truth in Climate Science and what, if any, action is required.
How do YOU decide when those dedicated to Mann's Hockey Stick are being dishonest? Conversations with CRU colleagues?

At a moment in time when the lives of the entire world are at risk, (by our own admissions we are both in more than one high risk category) the Phil Clarke collective is more interested in spreading fear and attacking those in positions of power, trying to aid and assist the Medics doing the most high risk work.

Phil Clarke has the morals and integrity of those that cut Firemen's Hoses while the building is on fire with people still inside.

therefore:
"by Phil (1.06pm today) is branded a rant (because of who wrote it?)
Mar 29, 2020 at 1:55 PM AK"

... as his sources are 97% unreliable, in science and factual evidence, what level of contempt is appropriate?

Phil is in good company then, a Nobel Laureate no less, with evidence.

In NY in particular, one simply has to look at the pronouncements of elected officials + their allied bureaucrats over the last few weeks (go to cinemas!, go to resstaurants!, hug people!) to see that the balance of politicisation in that city at least has been do / say the opposite of what Trump says / does -

Counterfactual. Yes, early reactions, particularly by de Blasio were spectatcularly poorly judged (that gym visit!), however by early March they had got the message. By 12th March the city was put into a state of emergency and a day later restaurants etc closed and large gatherings banned.

Trump, yes he did the China travel ban thing however mid-March he too was still downplaying the threat, saying on March 10 'Keep calm, this will just go away'. The National Emergency was declared on the 13th.

So it seems to me rather than being opposed, the history of the Trump and New York administrations responses show they got it equally wrong, pretty much in lockstep.

And, as I've observed before, just labelling your opponents 'deranged' is not much of an argument.

AK, the undeniable truth is that Lock down is about DELAYING the spread. It cannot stop the spread.

Flattening the curve gives the NHS time to prepare. The multi agency collaboration to create The Nightingale Hospital out of Exxel, along with similar massive projects elsewhere is testimony to numerous Disaster Plans that have evolved in the post War era, through the Cold War to the present day. There will be problems, but all know what the result needs to be.

The quest for a cure or prophylactic will have started in China. They will have tried, and be trying options unacceptable elsewhere. One of the Holy Grails of pharmacy remains a cure for the Common Cold and flu. It has not been found, but many drugs are available to treat symptoms.

A drug that can minimise the most lethal effects of Coronavirus may already exist and be approved. Nobody has yet (?) worked out what it is, but "trials" will involve those hospitalised. I think a Legal Exclusion from being sued was granted by BoJo to Doctors.

A drug that achieved good results, but with undesirable side effects may not have been approved, but the technical knowledge required to produce it still exists. Thalidomide is still prescribed, but not for Morning Sickness or to pregnant women.

HIV has not been cured, but death rates dropped from nearly 100% down to about 1%. Certain drugs were important, but different people require different combinations.

China has not covered itself in glory, and their final death toll may be the biggest. If they could find a medical solution, they would have the most to benefit. They would also win Brownie Points around the world, including within The White House, and would embarrass Big Pharma if they did not exploit it to their financial advantage.

What is unreliable about the US Lupus Foundation complaining about the unintended consequence of Trump's twittering on about the effectiveness of an unapproved anti-malarial when used to treat coronavirus, namely a run on the drug leading to shortages for its legitimate users - Lupus sufferers? Why do you brand the organisation unreliable? Just because Phil quotes them? I repeat, Phil can be a good and interesting information source, but not if your only reaction is knee-jerk.

And, as I've observed before, just labelling your opponents 'deranged' is not much of an argument.

Mar 29, 2020 at 3:57 PM | Phil Clarke
Which is why you keep doing it.

Coronavirus requires individuals concentrated on solutions, capable of admitting errors, not seeking to apportion ate blame, or stick to one preconceived idea.

How are the opinions and personal biases of Hockey Teamsters useful?

Welcome to reality

https://order-order.com/2020/03/29/social-distancing-last-three-six-months-plausibly-longer/

"I repeat, Phil can be a good and interesting information source, but not if your only reaction is knee-jerk.

Mar 29, 2020 at 4:40 PM AK

Yes, and I have previously acknowledged that Phil Clarke's sources are useful, as they all point to the same sources. Either they are equally reliable, or they all require another Peer Review.

With Institutional Fraud/Dishonesty/Corruption now established amongst GMU and JCU taxpayer funded "professional" Hockey Teamsters, why should their opinion on Coronavirus treatment be more valid than a Surveyor/Engineer's or a Geologist's, bearing in mind that Hockey Teamsters adopt a zero tolerance policy to those that point out their errors, because they are not Hockey Teamsters?

As their opinion is based on anything that may be used in evidence against Trump, it is conclusion dependent, not evidence based. Just like their version of Climate Science, it should not be trusted

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/escobar-why-france-hiding-cheap-and-tested-virus-cure

Thanks for reminding me why I don't read ZH. I was about to wash my hands, having read the comments to that piece I now need to Dettol my brain. Some serious crazy.

C'est les Nouvelles fausses, mes amis. Quelle surprise!

https://tinyurl.com/scn2mpe
https://tinyurl.com/wprx4qc

Mar 26, 2020 at 6:15 PM | Phil Clarke

You are clearly hoping that the death toll will exceed that due to corrupted Climate Science.

Mar 27, 2020 at 12:12 AM golf charlie

https://www.manhattancontrarian.com/blog/2020-3-28-china-makes-itself-a-laughingstock

I have no idea whether I will be a victim of Coronavirus, but our children and grandchildren will be glad it killed off Climate Science.

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/03/29/fight-the-virus-not-carbon/

Fight the virus, not carbon
Guest Blogger / 31 mins ago March 29, 2020
"Often obsessive focus on climate wastes scarce money and distracts from real health crisis"

Paul Driessen and David Wojick

"The many trillions of dollars proposed to be spent under dubious “green new deals” should be spent instead (effectively and within reason) on health care, especially virus prevention, protection and cures. This is the gist of an “Open Letter to World Leaders” from the Climate Intelligence Foundation."

The Foundation, or CLINTEL, makes this clear right up front: “Your Excellencies, compared to COVID-19, climate change is a non-problem! It is based on immature computer models, and it looks into the distant future. In the current health emergency, however, your attention to the peoples’ needs is today! Please, don’t continue pushing your zero carbon emission ambition in a time that the world is dealing with a deadly global crisis. Yes, there is an emergency, but it is NOT climate.”

A little overconspiratorial there tomo. BH sometimes insists on a recaptcha when you post up certain URLS. But the recaptcha is bust: when that happens I use TinyURL. If your paranoid schizophrenia kicks in, don't click.

Point is, the story was fake. If you don't like those links, here's Liberation

https://www.liberation.fr/checknews/2020/03/22/les-stocks-de-chloroquine-de-la-pharmacie-centrale-des-hopitaux-de-paris-ont-ils-ete-pilles_1782620