Averted eyes?

The Andy Ngo saga was reported in Rolling Stone,

But the issue wasn’t so much that Ngo had finally been “exposed” as a right-wing provocateur as opposed to a journalist. It was that he’d managed to successfully convince so many ostensibly reasonable people otherwise, despite significant evidence to the contrary — and, in so doing, did some serious damage in the process.

Vox

Ngo is not an innocent victim but a far-right sympathizer who has doxxed antifa members in the past, potentially facilitating their harassment, and provokes them so that he can broadcast the result. The outpouring of sympathy for Ngo, in this account, is actually evidence that the mainstream media is falling for Ngo’s grift — funneling money to his Patreon and legitimizing a right-wing smear campaign against a group that’s working to protect people from the threat of violence from groups like the Proud Boys.

There was a lengthy profile on Buzzfeed

I think Andy Ngo’s work is designed to confirm some truly ugly American instincts: that something inherent in Islam makes Muslims unassimilable, that minority groups using their status cynically is as big a problem as discrimination against them, and that a tiny pocket of the American left poses as great a threat to the freedom of Americans as a federal government careening toward permanent minority rule. I think his methods are unsafe, inimical to good journalism, and border on propagandistic

And another in Jacobin

That’s not to say the Left should ignore the likes of Andy Ngo or even Tucker Carlson. They are both the cause and effect of white nationalism and the violence that comes with it. Their synergy is also a reflection of the complex digital landscape. Legacy media like the Wall Street Journal, the New York Post, and even Fox News need Andy Ngo just as much as he needs them. They gave him a platform not for his shoddy reporting and tired bigotry, but for the audience he’s amassed, even if it’s a digital lynch mob.

He's been on CNN, Fox, tweeted by Trump, he has a wiki entry, a $200,000 GoFundMe page and, naturally, a book out: here's one review.

Even with politics aside (which they shouldn't be,) Andy Ngo has been caught falsifying sources and data, computer engineering fake author avatars and bios for his tabloid rag, switching back and forth between his American and abysmally concocted fake british accent, and regularly defending Nazis with all his might all to continue getting the attention he craves from the gullible public that follow him.

Averted Eyes? Really?

AK, my posting this had nothing to do with Trump and everything to do with Phil. Who still hasn't passed opinion on the people who were killed by Irish Republicans since 2000.

Do I need to? You claimed the IRA as an example of left wing violence, falsely asserting that they were supported by Corbyn. I questioned the relevance of what is a sectarian conflict, which was largely if not completely ended by the GF agreement, to the storming of the US Capitol 22 years later. The IRA decommissioned their weapons and ended their campaign in 2005, so whoever is committing the post-agreement violence it is not them, and they certainly are not supported by JC. My last word on this, feel free to start a new, relevant thread.

And he's back. About those Irish Republican victims?

"The IRA decommissioned their weapons and ended their campaign in 2005"

And I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

My comment "While I'm disgusted at what Trump supporters did the other day there have been plenty of left wing and left wing favoured groups that have run riot and done damage . People die in all sorts of protests." in response to your mocking comment "Antifa with extra riot kit are out on the streets of New York - Apparently so. According to witnesses they threw an egg at a reporter. Not even free-range." In other words, making light of Antifa - of whom I know almost nothing about from UK mainstream media and nothing at all from TV. Why would I accept your series of quotes about Ngo? Just looks like left wing lies to me... Though to be honest I don't care. No group/people should be issuing death threats, no matter how much the object of their anger stirs. As the article points out, they've just given the guy legitimacy and sold his book.

The Democrats DID support the IRA and it matters not that it was 20 years ago. They are threatening the UK now with resumed support. They're so proud of the GFA because it's one of the few good things left of randy Clinton's legacy. The only reason the IRA publicly disbanded was because 9/11 gave terrorism a bad name. Jeremy has been a good friend to every scumbag who hates the British and buddied up with the 'former' IRA leadership in his twisted version of peace. He got his reward at the last election and with a bit of luck he and his cronies will rip Labour apart. So who is more Labour, those who think Corbyn was an IRA sympathiser or those who don't? We certainly know who are more left wing.

Should you deny that those killed by new Irish Republicans are dog shit? Of course not... if you think it's true.

Running out of things to write about Trump? So let’s discuss (=argue about) the IRA, we probably will be when Biden becomes POTUS.

But Phil will avoid a topic about the IRA, new or otherwise. He just wants to gloat about Trump. Will he bring himself to condemn the murders by the New IRA?

There are many examples where the left encourage marches which almost always descend into violence. John McDonnel was very vocal about the student riots that resulted in one student throwing a fire extinguisher off a building. If it had hit someone it would have killed them. Did McDonnel regret stirring up violence? Was the fire extinguisher just a mistake in the heat of the moment for a good cause or the same as what sadly happened the other day? I think it was the same and while I'm more than happy to condemn Trump's rioters, I rarely see the same from lefties when a left wing cause has resulted in damage, injury or even death.

Well it is the Trump thread. (BTW I am not going to deny every offensively-phrased opinion wrongly placed into my mouth, that would soon become tiresome.)

Yes I am gloating, Trump has vindicated my opinion of him more thoroughly than I ever thought possible. And I have more than won back the money I lost backing Clinton four years ago. The modest side bet on him not attending Biden's inauguration is looking good too.

:-)

But you won't condemn them in your own words either - very telling. You wanted examples of Left wing support for violent protest. I've given you loads. You quibble over IRA vs New IRA. You gloat about rising political tensions in the US that will result in more polarisation and violence.

You've a lot in common with Trump. I hope AK doesn't support your stance.

A nice article from the BBC about New IRA activties.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-10866072

And yet the Left pretends that if the GFA breaks down it's the fault of Brexit and the Right. The GFA is already broken, we just don't talk about it. Pelosi and Biden are both old enough to be part of the pre 20 year old problem and be determined to revive it to a pre 20 year old strength, just to spite British Conservatives and Brexiteers and boost the EU that they think would be better allies than us. Except the EU rarely helps out the US, no matter who is in power. Is one policeman killed by a thrown fire extinguisher more important than those many people who were killed in less televisual events? Are those rioters just as much freedom fighters as the violent pro Irish unification lot or are they just as bad? And yes, I equally condemn the violent Royalists.

Instead of calming the situation, the Media on the Left is relishing it like Phil. Sure, there's some of that on the Right too, but mostly embarassment and rejection. While the Left bang on endlessly about what misfortune drives protests like BLM, they dismiss any and all problems facing white people. Trump exploited that lack of white on white support. He promised to 'make America great again' instead of telling them they were very naughty and they should go stand in the corner and think about their white privilege.

This is one of the oldest and most effective tricks in politics. Every hack in the business has used it in times of trouble, and it has even been elevated to the level of political mythology in a story about one of Lyndon Johnson’s early campaigns in Texas.

“The race was close and Johnson was getting worried. Finally he told his campaign manager to start a massive rumour campaign about his opponent’s life-long habit of enjoying carnal knowledge of his barnyard sows.

“Christ, we can’t get away with calling him a pig-f****r,” the campaign manager protested. “Nobody’s going to believe a thing like that.”

“I know,” Johnson replied. “But let’s make the sonofab****h deny it.”

Same lame debating trick. Sorry, not playing. Perhaps I should have been clearer; I was after examples relevant and/or similar to the Trump Riot. If I'd realised you were going to go back decades and around the globe…….

There has never been an 'Antifa murder', and the statistics show far-right (mainly white supremacist/white nationalist) violence is a far greater problem than far-left agitation. A fact confirmed by the head of the FBI.

Whoever assaulted Ngo committed a crime, to be clear. But to ignore his provocateur activities and one-sided reporting is to miss important context. And to claim that 'eyes were averted' from the event when he was granted an interview on CNN shortly after is just absurd.

At this rate the only people at Biden’s inauguration will be ordered to be there

And your 'debating trick' is a good example of refusing to deny what you believe in, by deflection. The New IRA are not remotely old news and you seem to be a supporter. You can't bring yourself to write 'I think the deaths of people at the hands of the New IRA are just as bad as deaths at the hands of MAGA.' There's even one particular death you absolutely should have condemned. Well, well, well, that's an eye opener.

I didn't mention Antifa in my opening comment. I just mentioned the Left. 20 years is but a blink of the eye. I included lots of protests including XR and BLM which are both current. Oh, and in case you haven't noticed, Bishop Hill is around the globe.

No, I do not feel the need to specifically state that I condemn a particular set of terrorist offences; it is a given in a civilised debate. This is not the Sixth Form.

You haven't accepted any of the other points I made, so I can only assume that you don't condemn the New IRA murders either. You don't even accept that the new IRA exists or has anything to do with the original version. You're still deflecting. As for sixth form behaviour, I think that's covered by your admitted gloating.

Last week's deadly riot at the U.S. Capitol was not an act of racism, nor was it an insurrection. It was not an armed invasion by a brigade of dangerous White supremacists. Those are lies. Why are they demanding that you believe those lies?

When your doctor claims that your broken arm is stage IV pancreatic cancer, you need a second opinion. When he demands that you get chemotherapy, you need to run away, because something very dark is going on. Indeed, something dark is going on right now.

What happened last week was not new or unusual. The riot was the perfect illustration of why we should oppose all mob action. Left uncontrolled, mobs boil over, violence erupts, and people get killed. That has happened many times through human history. That's the way mobs are. Wise leaders know that, and it's why they don't encourage mobs.

We had hoped that everyone in Washington had learned that lesson, but of course, they haven't. Instead, they're trying to use this moment to increase their own power, so they're lying about what you saw. They're calling it a precisely orchestrated coup attempt. They're telling you the Chewbacca guy you saw on video, the guy with the painted face and the Viking hat, was actually the leader of some super secret commando unit here to overthrow our government.

It's absurd and insulting, yet it's working. What happened last week is being used to justify the most sweeping crackdown on civil liberties and free speech in the history of this country. You shouldn't be surprised, however. We lived through something similar that showed the template for what they'll do and what they plan to do.

Over Memorial Day weekend, George Floyd died in Minneapolis police custody. The usual frauds and demagogues leveraged that moment to change this country forever. They used hysteria to subdue the population and crush anyone who dared to ask questions about what they were doing. They tried hard to pull "Tucker Carlson Tonight" off the air, for example. To this day, they maintain strict ideological orthodoxy through threats and fear rather than argument and reason.

Here's an actual recent headline from the sports blog Deadspin: "Fans rip Phillies over trade for Black Lives Matter hater/batting practice pitcher Sam Coonrod"

Here's what Sam Coonrod actually said about Black Lives Matter: "I just can't get on board with a couple things I've read about Black Lives Matter, how they lean towards Marxism, and ... they said some negative things about the nuclear family."

Sam Coonrod isn't for Marxism and likes the nuclear family, so we'd better crush him.

Meanwhile, and this was the point all along, a small number of genuinely radical haters and nihilists have stepped into the void where our national conversation used to be and taken total control of the floor. They say things that virtually no one in this country actually agrees with, but since no one else is allowed to talk, they have a monopoly on what we do next.

We were told the death of George Floyd was a national crisis, and in any national crisis, you've got to make some sacrifices. Well, guess what? Every one of your sacrifices is going to make vacuous little totalitarian morons like Sandy Cortez more powerful. That's how national crises work. Something bad has happened, therefore, you've got to hand the worst people in the world the keys to your life.

If you needed more evidence that it's all about what's good for Sandy Cortez and her friends and not about what's good for you, here's her revised position on defunding the police:

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ, D-N.Y.: Many of us narrowly escaped death. There were members of Capitol Police who were quite heroic. You know, we have many officers and, you know, there were also Black and brown officers that were confronting White supremacists and putting themselves, not just to protect members, but they put themselves in harm's way.

So Sandy's heart is still beating fast, but she likes the cops now, despite the fact they're White supremacists. What a difference a day makes. She's not alone. Rep Ayanna Pressley, D-Mass., has also, for the moment, changed her view of violent civil unrest:

PRESSLEY: It was a harrowing experience. They were terrorizing members of Congress and all who work in the Capitol, our staff ... Feeling unsafe is not new and certainly being a Black woman and feeling unsafe is not new.

No, feeling unsafe is not new for Ayanna Pressley, particularly when she attended the single most expensive private school in Chicago growing up. And it was even scarier when she arrived, like her friend Sandy Cortez, on the mean streets of Boston University. Ayanna Pressley knows well what it's like to be persecuted and oppressed.

And that, friends, is why you should no longer be allowed to speak in public or read the websites you like or watch this show. The New York Times has published a column by Nick Kristof that made this entirely sensible point:

"I'd like to see pressure on advertisers to withdraw from Fox News so long as it functions as an extremist madrasa, and cable providers should be asked why they distribute channels that peddle lies."

You won't be surprised to learn that the rest of the media, our competitors, strongly agree with that sentiment: The government needs to shut down Fox News. People who watch Fox News, meanwhile -- that would be you -- need to be "deprogrammed", presumably in some kind of residential facility. Reeducation camps, if you will. We can't say specifically what the plan is. Honestly, we haven't thought a lot about it. MSNBC, though, has thought a lot about it.

EUGENE ROBINSON: There are millions of Americans, almost all White, almost all Republicans, who somehow need to be deprogrammed. It's as if they are members of a cult, that Trumpist cult, and have to be deprogrammed. Do you have any idea how we will start that process?

It turns out that many Democrats do, in fact, have some ideas on how to start the process. Sandy Cortez, by the way, has been thinking about this since sociology class at BU and she has concluded that we need a government commission to shut down media outlets that might criticize her.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: There's absolutely a commission that's being discussed ... Several members of Congress, and some of my discussions, have brought up media literacy because that is a part of what happened here ... We're going to have to figure out how we rein in our media environment so that you can't just spew disinformation and misinformation.

"You can't just spew disinformation like criticizing Sandy Cortez! It's not like this is a free country with the First Amendment!" Well, not anymore.

This is all moving pretty fast, but then it always does move pretty fast. But don't you worry, it's for your safety. You see how that works, right? You're protected when you can't speak.

Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey knows that. He looks like a pothead, but he's pretty clever and he takes the long view on these things. Thanks to James O'Keefe at Project Veritas, we know that Jack Dorsey has plans for the rest of us that will extend far beyond the Trump era. Silencing Donald Trump was just the beginning. Guess who's next? You are.

DORSEY: We are focused on one account right now, but this is going to be much bigger than just one account and it's going to go on for much longer than just this day, this week ... I don't believe this is going away anytime soon. And the moves that we're making today around QAnon, for instance, [are] one such example of a much broader approach that we should be looking at and and going deeper on.

So this is "much bigger" than silencing just one man, and it's going to go on "much longer" than just this week. Maybe Jack Dorsey isn't so bright. He just admitted out loud with the rest of them are still denying: This isn't really about Donald Trump, and it never was. It's definitely not about what happened last week at the Capitol.

It is about controlling you, and the country you thought was yours, forever. Sorry, there's a national crisis going on and we have no choice.

I did say this would become a rabbithole.

Tucker Carlson is not to be taken seriously, Fox's own lawyers said so.

All 'debates' here seem to end up this way. Sad!

And Phil, I'm going to follow you from thread to thread asking that you do the grown up thing of admitting the existence of the New IRA (which you pretended were history); that you condemn their murders of the last 20 years; deny that those murdered were deserving of it; and admit that the left have cheered on protests that have sometimes resulted in death and often involve destruction.

I won't bother asking you to admit that Corbyn has been friend to monsters far worse than Trump, but it won't make it any less true.

Of course you won't.

https://assets.amuniversal.com/4d946a801354013623f1005056a9545d

IRA supporter... you don't think anyone follows your links do you?

So, as typical with accusations against President Trump, the accusations fall apart when actual evidence us considered.

And as far as attaching Andy Ngo, quoting Rolling Stone, which lost and settled a lawsuit for the damage their fabricated slander about a US fraternity only makes the one quoting RS look pathetic.

And now it turns that social media is actually facist, planning and implementing censorship on behalf of the democrat party and bureaucratic state.
Goebbels is smiling in his circle of hell.

Trump was banned from social media because he was using it to spread lies similar to those that got the Capitol mob fired up. He was warned that this would happen.

In the context of horrific events this week, we made it clear on Wednesday that additional violations of the Twitter Rules would potentially result in this very course of action. Our public interest framework exists to enable the public to hear from elected officials and world leaders directly. It is built on a principle that the people have a right to hold power to account in the open.

However, we made it clear going back years that these accounts are not above our rules entirely and cannot use Twitter to incite violence, among other things.

Some people (not me, you understand) might observe that a single poor article published six years previously is not that brilliant of a reason to dismiss everything else published in the same periodical ever since, though it does mean that one does not have to deal with the substance.

As to the arguments falling apart, you'd have to be a true believer to agree. For those who may not have been keeping up with current events: Trump was just impeached a history-making second time, with 10 Republicans voting against him, his approval rating has cratered to the lowest ever for an outgoing president, a majority of Americans think he should be removed from office, his social media accounts have been taken away, with Twitter issuing a permanent ban for fear he incites more violence, his personal banker has closed his account, his business bank has said they no longer want to have him as a client, the PGA have pulled their flagship tournament from his golf course, the Trump Organisation online shop has been taken offline, payments company Stripe have banned payments to his campaign, Lehigh University and Wagner College have rescinded his honourary degrees,  New England Patriots’ coach, Bill Belichick declined the Presidential Medal of Freedom and over a dozen major corporate donors, including Coca Cola, AT & T and Marriott have withdrawn sponsorship from representatives who supported his attempt to get the election result overturned.

They must believe he did something wrong.