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Discussion > President Trump

What better way to humiliate that blowhard?

Jan 22, 2017 at 6:07 PM | Entropic man

Time for a fresh Triump thread, now that the man is in office. There is bound to be much to discuss.

Jan 21, 2017 at 5:38 PM | Entropic man

So it WAS planned and paid for. Who by, and what is the motivation behind undermining the POTUS?

Would you prefer Hillary Clinton to be lying in the Oval Office?

Is it now fair to hold demonstrations demonising Climate Scientists for the fraud and corruption they have been committing with the backing of Obama? They no longer have a Presidential pardon guaranteed.

Trump has apparently complimented the FBI/CIA on their professional conduct. What kind of fraud and corruption have they been prevented from investigating due to Fraud and Corruption within the last 8 or so years?

As I have stated before, the actions of devotees of Climate Science over the years, must really wrangle with Trump. When he decides to "blow hard", it won't just be his hairdresser starting to panic.

So who prompted Entropic Man to post this thread?

Jan 22, 2017 at 9:51 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

QOTD from the MSM ....

Rod Liddle in The Sunday Times apparently

I'm not sure about Donald Trump - but if these idiots are against him - maybe he's got a point

Jan 22, 2017 at 9:49 PM | tomo

I was not a Trump fan, but I am beginning to understand how easy Stage 1 of swamp draining will be, and what a wonderful "feelgood" factor will ripple across the USA, in the coming weeks.

Jan 22, 2017 at 10:02 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Tomo

Try Al Jazeera

Jan 22, 2017 at 10:05 PM | Unregistered CommenterEntropic man

Golf Charlie

So who prompted Entropic Man to post this thread?

Supertroll and splitpin, on the previous Donald Trump thread.

Jan 22, 2017 at 10:11 PM | Unregistered CommenterEntropic man

EM

interesting - far less shrill than it was about 18 months back when I tired of regular visits.

Given that it's the plaything of the Al Thani family whose antics re Daesh - (that the MSM see fit to largely ignore) make me a skeptical reader. That said - they blow the parochial lefty nutjobs of CNN into the weeds for cosmopolitan reportage.

Jan 22, 2017 at 10:15 PM | Registered Commentertomo

Once upon a time, al-J had wonderful cartoons with great music.
========

Jan 22, 2017 at 10:23 PM | Unregistered Commenterkim

EM

OK ... try this

One quote in there that I was unaware of:

the Fascists of the future will call themselves anti-Fascists

Winston Churchill

(that's not unalloyed fan-dom - just something that struck me as prescient)

I picked up something in the comments there that I hadn't heard before. In the same presser that included the whinge about reporting crowd numbers - the issue of the Churchill bust was brought up .... or rather the issue of the usual suspects reporting that the Martin Luther King bust had been removed - it hadn't..... go figure.

Jan 22, 2017 at 10:35 PM | Registered Commentertomo

Speaking of that King and not this King or any other, 'content of character' immortalizes him.
=============

Jan 22, 2017 at 10:49 PM | Unregistered Commenterkim

Just as the Remainers are fed up with the Brexiters still battling away, without realising that it is the few ReMOANers left that are the reason for the battle continuing so intensely, many are oblivious to the new US president being in the middle of an unfinished battle, (which could last his whole term):

Fighting for willful ignorance: Obama allies working to undermine Trump’s national security team

Note the comments: draining the swamp comes to mind.

Jan 22, 2017 at 10:55 PM | Registered CommenterRobert Christopher

Brennan's a bad 'un, the sooner the letter;
Every day, every way, better and better.
===========================

Jan 22, 2017 at 11:20 PM | Unregistered Commenterkim

Golf Charlie

So who prompted Entropic Man to post this thread? Supertroll and splitpin, on the previous Donald Trump thread.

Jan 22, 2017 at 10:11 PM | Entropic man

Too many lies. Why do you expect to be believed now?

It is the same with all of the Global Warming Scam. Too many lies, but Trump may ask US Criminal Justice to take them seriously now.

Jan 22, 2017 at 11:35 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

The Obamah Legacy ... some graphs ....

Jan 23, 2017 at 12:09 AM | Registered Commentertomo

The Guardian have kindly detailed what top climate experts think Trump should do.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jan/20/top-climate-experts-give-their-advice-to-donald-trump

My big prediction is that Trump will ignore this, but the list of names and their affiliations may prove useful.

Jan 23, 2017 at 12:43 AM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

My Dad as a young man travelled the word, twice. One piece of advice he gave me was "You cannot argue with a mob" (by argue he meant negotiate). He had indirect and direct experience of this (once being physically threatened with being thrown overboard.)

How mobs form and act has no definite rules. The trigger and the energy.

What we are seeing with Trump opposition is mob mentality. No different than shaved collaborators pushed through a French town after the war, or jews on a trip somewhere with no return.

A rich powerful man? Beautiful, well groomed wife? "Perfect" (outwardly at least) family? Who has a chance to become the most powerful man in the world? Let's make him ignorant, stupid, racist, sexist, whatever. It isn't about him, it is about the mob forming and people having a chance to put themselves above him within the ill defined social structures of the mob.

You cannot say the media are reactive or proactive. They are just part of this mob energy. You have seen the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyUIDROQ1kg

Media, Hollywood, politicians, these are voices in the mob, that both receive and create mob energy. The equivalent of the lynching "String him up!".

And they tried. And tried. Everyone is standing in the mob, smirking at the other. They lose sight of the boundaries of where the crowd ends. They just see heads and think it includes everyone.

isn't it cool? Being part of a mob, humiliating such a man?

But they fail. The mob isn't all-encompassing. And like all mobs they do not understand. They cannot comprehend why their collective thinking fails, is not valid. And it annoys the mob to distraction. Not least the media who went well beyond reporting news to trying to frame news.

He created his own power. He didn't need to negotiate with the mob. He wrote no IOUs to any members of it. Not least the establishment. The mobs energy was just internal, self-serving.

So Trump has not and will not give the mob an inch. And that is why he fights every statement and every comment. However petty some people think it is. He will not let the mob infect his power base.

I have no idea how things will work out. If the mob will disperse, lose energy. If it doesn't there is a chance that a mob will form around Trump.

Despite all the unbelievably dark and frankly doom laden prophecies in every MSM outlet (wall to wall in some cases) he hasn't actually done anything yet. And it is so far only his opponents who have acted with mob mentality. He is certainly no worse than any other presidential candidate (if you can stomach it, type in "Gore massage" into google, and every member of the press knew Clinton hit on anything in a dress.) Gore Vidal wrote, "Any American who is prepared to run for president should automatically, by definition, be disqualified from ever doing so."

Trump is different because he owes nothing to the establishment, they tried to control him, but it was they who forced him out of the village.

We shall see, but I understand why he doesn't give an inch. I wouldn't.

Jan 23, 2017 at 7:24 AM | Unregistered CommenterMedia Hoar

@gc

zerohedge has a list of imminent executive orders

@Media Hoar

yes - good points. In this case I think it worth adding that this mob isn't a spontaneous show of individuals It has been contrived / organised by folk behind the scenes and some in the the media - having been embarrassed by their own mendacity / duplicity and having had "their candidate" loose are out for some kind of revenge. I hope Soros / CNN et al get well and truly stuffed.

Jan 23, 2017 at 7:29 AM | Registered Commentertomo

Sorry tomo, I do disagree.

Chaos theory doesn't only apply to things like the climate (even if it is ignored) it also applies to any system. Including social ones. I do not believe in conspiracies. Sometimes the system is in a particular state and one of the many triggers it receives starts something. Climate Change as social system is the same, little to do with science.

Determining exactly why and when a mob starts, and how big it will become is no more easy than predicting the climate :) It is many many rules/laws overlayed that sometimes cancel each other out, sometimes create a "harmonic frequency".

Jan 23, 2017 at 8:33 AM | Unregistered CommenterMedia Hoar

tomo

I appreciate that I started it, but if we get into a discussion about the Middle East, there's a danger of going seriously off topic. Who knows where it would end?

My point was simply that giving a green light to Israel (with no hint of any restraints) to do whatever it wants (whilst presumably continuing to provide substantial US funding) might not be the policy most likely to lead to peace when the current Israeli government is led by one of the most gung-ho leaders they've ever had (and that's saying quite a lot!).

Media hoar's point is well-made, but is not the end of it. Trump has his own mob. His opponents are a mob. It's not a pretty sight. I call the protestors, who claim to have liberal values but who act in a very illiberal and intolerant way, liberal fascists. Elsewhere on the internet I've seen them called liberal regressives, which is both less offensive and possibly more accurate. Or possibly not. Fascists don't accept the outcome of a democratic vote, unless they've manipulated it to give them the result they want.

Jan 23, 2017 at 8:40 AM | Unregistered CommenterMark Hodgson

I appreciate what you are saying Mark... but here is my view...

I refuse to begin any comment with "I am not a Trump fan/supporter but...". It is the equivalent of I am not a...

racist but...
sexist but...
climate denier but...

Sod that.

Can you say how many of your views on Trump have been conditioned by the filtered news of the MSM? Just like I looked beyond the MSM because of the pushing of Climate Change I did the same the with Trump.

On many levels I do not really care who is President. It is not my country. But how much of people's views on Trump is dictated by really finding out about his support base, or how much just by lazily following the consensus. How much is just repeating a narrative you have been fed?

Here are some things raise a thought...

"Be careful Trump could be like Hitler/Mussolini"

Pre-war Germany and Italy where in large part unchanged for 100's of years. Exposure to foreigners, exposure to anything outside was minimal. Provincial Germany had folk traditions stretching back in time. In some places in Italy intermarriage across a street in a town was prohibited (Romeo and Juliet was based on fact.) Disliking the next town was usual (still can be), let alone anywhere further afield.

The US is not pre-war Europe. It is an immigrant society. It came up with a robust constitution that has survived incompetent/corrupt Presidents for over 200 years.

I come from a mixed-nationality family, and raise one myself. So does Trump. And anyone in that position is unlikely to engage in casual xenophobia/racism/whatever. Sitting around the breakfast table "bloody foreigners" isn't likely to be a phrase heard often.

Misogyny.

This is contentious but why not. Knowing how women socially operate as a group, how much of the anti-Trump movement from women is directed by the petty jealousies and bitchiness because of his wife? Would that movement be any less if his wife looked like Hilary and for example played the victim? There is an element of this to it, but not one I have heard even raised. When women engage in that social behaviour (group bullying) it isn't a pleasant experience.

I have said it before. The anti-trump movement thinks theirs is the natural state. But it isn't it is just an overcoat of values.

Jan 23, 2017 at 9:14 AM | Unregistered CommenterMedia Hoar

Chaos theory is all well + good and there is undoubtedly an element of chaos in all this.

That said - pumping in (hundreds of in some cases) millions of €, £, $ after an election in an attempt to disrupt the new administration is in my view quite a dangerous thing to do on the scale we're seeing. I subscribe largely to the screw-up theory of history - but screw-ups require a few pre-conditions in order to happen and if you know your chaos theory - starting conditions are pretty important - no?

Without any actual evidence at all beyond some experience with civil disturbances and demonstrations in various countries around the place - my instinct isn't that this mob is forming , precipitating from out of nowhere - it takes organisation, logistics and money to get them on site, bevied +placarded up - scaffolding, generators, lights, stewards and gophers with bull horns scampering around.

We have to deal with what's put in front of us - problem is - what is on offer is deeply skewed by people who proclaim to be doing independent honest reportage and the point passed some time back where satire was surpassed by MSM "reality".

The UK's Daily Star is beginning to look like a bastion of sanity.

Jan 23, 2017 at 11:24 AM | Registered Commentertomo

Tomo

I have an informal way of distinguishing between "top down" and "bottom up" protest organisation.

A top down protest will have lots of people carrying printed placards of a few standard designs. Bottom up protests tend to carry a lot of homemade placards.

Look at the pictures of the 21st January protest. Note the homemade placards.

Now a photo of the 2011 TUC anti-cuts march." Note the mass produced blue flags and No Cuts placards.

Jan 23, 2017 at 12:18 PM | Unregistered CommenterEntropic man

This looks like fun.

Trump is to be face a lawsuit under the Emolument Clause of the Constitution. Its purpose is to ensure that he does not benefit financially from being POTUS by accepting payments from foreign sources which might be interpreted as bribes.

Caesar's wife?

Jan 23, 2017 at 12:34 PM | Unregistered CommenterEntropic man

EM that would perhaps have some validity had it taken place at the beginning of the nomination process a few years back, rather than the end, and be applicable to all candidates.

At what point do actions like this just become attempts to subvert democracy? Are we past that point if this gains any traction? Redefining what "foreign payments" are, sounds like trying to rewrite the constitution because Hilary got more votes nationally.

Trump is what is he and hasn't changed, he should have been excluded at the beginning of the process, not the end.

Jan 23, 2017 at 12:51 PM | Unregistered CommenterMedia Hoar

Media Hoar, I was not a Trump fan but ...

The more I realise who he is annoying the most, the more I like him. Too many are relying on dossiers more dodgy than anything produced on behalf of Blair.

Mark Hodgson & others, Israel
Obama sent out some very strong messages regarding Israel in his last months. What was he trying to say and achieve for his lasting legacy in the Middle East? If Obama was reacting to the current Israeli leadership, how would success have been determined?

Jan 23, 2017 at 1:15 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

tomo, it makes little difference, it is the energy needed to maintain a mob that is crucial. We shall see I guess where these things lead. I will admit, like a viral video, authenticity does have a large say in the energy of something like that.

Jan 23, 2017 at 1:25 PM | Unregistered CommenterMedia Hoar

So another viewpoint. Assuming Brexit is not undermined by anti-democracy measures.

Trump is far better for the UK than Clinton or the Democrats.

I remember a playful but serious article from 20 years ago about Britain leaving the UK and becoming the 51st state. We would be the most populous. Integration would not be an issue. The yanks generally accept us, and they certainly like the Queen (and Winston Churchill ;-) )

The EU has been acting in a petty minded way. Thinking they hold all the cards. And look what happens? The state changes, and suddenly an immense and "easy to deal with" trading partner opens up. Something not likely to happen so publicly and openly with the Democrats (trying to placate France and Germany).

So for the UK Trump is much better than Clinton.

Jan 23, 2017 at 1:33 PM | Unregistered CommenterMedia Hoar