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« Gav calls it - Josh 320 | Main | Off »
Monday
Apr062015

Disappearing coastlines? Disappearing membership

This may well be the last straw for my family's long membership of the National Trust as Dame Helen Ghosh joins the CAGW activists with a vengeance.  We drafted a letter of resignation last year  because of the increasingly political stance being taken by the NT and NTS and then didn't send it.  It's still on file though, now where did I put the stamps?

TM [Link repaired]

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Reader Comments (38)

TM:

The link doesn;t work! You've got in on "temp".

Apr 6, 2015 at 9:26 AM | Unregistered CommenterDavid Jones

I get a 404 error on the link.

I went to an NTS site last week, the prices were exceptional, presumably so high to pay for the move to CO2 neutrality. The staff were good though, my grandson had a 20 minute demonstration on armour and weapons all to himself. It made his day.

Apr 6, 2015 at 9:27 AM | Unregistered CommenterSandyS

TM - broken link. But as you suggest, the NT and NTS national offices have long been staffed by gullible fools when it comes to AGW. Most other NGOs also, with the exception of the who tend to steer clear of the subject and stick to highlighting the idiocy of UK energy policy.

Apr 6, 2015 at 9:31 AM | Registered Commenterlapogus

Dodgy link...

Apr 6, 2015 at 9:39 AM | Unregistered CommenterStevie

I'm afraid you're quite wrong about the John Muir Trust Lapogus. They have just signed up to the Climate Change Coalition Manifesto. The John Muir Trust may be against some wind farms, but they are no less rabid CAGW supporters than the likes of Greenpeace or WWF.

Apr 6, 2015 at 9:41 AM | Unregistered CommenterJohn B

My partner works as a volunteer at Croome Park, next to the Old Defford airfield in Worcestershire.
For some strange reason the big attraction this week-end is the scaffolding which now masks the frontage.
You go up some aluminium steps to the "Sky Cafe" for a cup of tea and a slice of victoria sponge.
Truly has the NT been dubbed the "Macdonalds of the middle classes".
But as the Church of England too, is now under the control of the Green Blob where else do you go on Sundays ?

Apr 6, 2015 at 9:42 AM | Unregistered Commentertoad

" The staff were good though, my
grandson had a 20 minute demonstration on armour and weapons all to
himself. It made his day."

No idea in your case but I think a lot of the staff are volunteers for the NT.

Apr 6, 2015 at 10:05 AM | Unregistered CommenterRob Burton

They may be breaking the law by siphoning money off for purposes other than that for which they advertise. It may be worth making a complaint to the relevant regulator.

As a donor or supporter I would want ALL my money spent on preserving heritage, not a penny spent on futile feel-good attempts to change the global climate, either directly or by influencing others.

The NT is just a large-scale version of a homeowner. How many homeowners worry that climate change may force them to get exterior woodwork repainted once every 7 years rather than the 8 years at present?

Apr 6, 2015 at 10:06 AM | Unregistered CommenterMikky

Regrettably I too have also come to the decision to stop my subscription.
A great pity that such a worthwhile trust is headed up by one of those "bodysnatched" creatures.

Apr 6, 2015 at 10:34 AM | Unregistered CommenterJohn Catley

Gosh is stupid if she thinks the NT can make a difference to global warming even if we do assume that GW is man made. The UK is tiny % of the planet, and the UK's output tiny compared to the that of China & India. Even if the NT used no fossil fuels (or the products of it) and only used renewables and spent all their member's money on mitigation they wouldn't affect the global climate by 0.000001C. No wonder I say #GreeniesAreStupid

Apr 6, 2015 at 10:41 AM | Unregistered CommenterSadButMadLad

If you link through to the original article in the Mail you'll find the Truro Troll hyperactive in the comments beating the same old drum.

Apr 6, 2015 at 11:46 AM | Registered CommenterMike Jackson

… the organisation would actively campaign to slow the pace of global warming.
An effect campaign, as it seems to have worked retroactively; another excuse to join the 60+ as to why there is a previously unforeseen warming plateau.

Apr 6, 2015 at 12:04 PM | Registered CommenterRadical Rodent

The NT has been sliding down the scale of 'associations one wishes to support' for some years and in common with our host, my membership has also teetered on the brink.

However, as I will continue to visit its properties, the money I spend doing so will then be used just the same - and I will probably spend more than a membership would cost and without even the slight influence membership confers.

Perhaps a better course of action would be to form a body within the Trust to fight back at the trendies, entryists and bien pensant carpetbaggers who have taken the Trust over and now treat it as part of the 'right-on army'.

Any takers?

Apr 6, 2015 at 12:26 PM | Unregistered CommenterUncle Badger

Yes, the situation is pretty desperate.
Not just the NT spouting conspicuous nonsense, but just about every major organisation, charity, political party, and medium is completely signed up to the CAGW idea, to the extent that rational analysis, let alone debate, is not possible. Worst of all, even junior school kids are being - yes- indoctrinated. It is going to take a lot of effort to start rolling this back, as right now nobody is listening to us. I'm just praying that the temperature of the world starts to back off a bit really soon. A hiatus is not enough, and if an upward trend, even a modest one, is resumed, we might find they start passing laws against 'denial'

Apr 6, 2015 at 12:53 PM | Unregistered Commentermothcatcher

Rob Burton
I don't know either way, but he did a great job anyway.

Apr 6, 2015 at 1:38 PM | Unregistered CommenterSandyS

Drat! I don't have a membership. Is it all right if I cancel someone else's?

This has been going on for a bit. The Bishop covered the appearance of Ghosh on Today, about a week ago. Then she was in the DT. Having been fixated with House Sparrows, she was suddenly obsessed with the silverfish, a wingless insect, usually categorized as primitive, but which has supposedly acquired such an affinity for modernity that it is abruptly proliferating in NT properties all across the land, all thanks to man-made "climate change".

As for complaining about the politicization of the NT, yes, it is disastrous, but she'll get away with it, because most of the parties in the current election subscribe to the same mythology as she does.

Apr 6, 2015 at 2:02 PM | Unregistered CommenterOwen Morgan

...parts of the Trust's coastline "are falling off into the sea"?

NEWS FLASH: Parts of coastlines are constantly falling off into the sea. Apparently the good Dame imagines that cliffs were created by something other than erosion.

Apr 6, 2015 at 2:14 PM | Unregistered CommenterJack Maloney

I'm now trying to persuade SWMBO (she who must be obeyed) that we should cancel our NT subscription and plough the money into a SPOTIFY (which I currently use it for free but I fancy the better-quality sound on Premium).

I have to ask, what on earth does Ghosh think is in it for the NT by taking this stance? Is there more money available from the government poor bloody taxpayer if you get CAGW in your mission statement?

Apr 6, 2015 at 2:34 PM | Unregistered CommenterHarry Passfield

It's not surprising that Dame Helen Ghosh takes that line. She was Permanent Secretary (top Civil Servant) at DEFRA from 2005 to 2010 - that was the government department that introduced the 2008 Climate Change Act.

Apr 6, 2015 at 3:23 PM | Registered CommenterRuth Dixon

Dame Helen Ghosh
DG National Trust
Heelis
Kemble Drive
Swindon SN2 2NA

24th March 2015

Dear Dame Helen,

I listened to your interview on the Today programme 23/03/15, concerning the National Trust’s concerns about ‘Climate Change’.

It seemed to me that you were just repeating the current dogma without much understanding. This is a great pity as, by embracing the dogma, your organisation is allowing the countryside it seeks to preserve to be ruined by wind turbines and solar farms though I appreciate that the subsidies are very profitable.

As you have no scientific qualifications I can understand why you might be easily persuaded, but those who would persuade you are themselves seldom well qualified to do so - just well paid to do so.

In the interview, Mr Humphrys described carbon dioxide as a pollutant, which any competent scientist would have challenged. Carbon dioxide is the life giving gas on the planet; all life is made from it; you and I are made from it. The current levels in the atmosphere are dangerously low. At 0.04% it is a trace gas (the human contribution to this is 0.0016%) and were it to fall to 0.02% plants would die and so would we.

The good thing is that it is rising at the moment. The reason it is rising is due to some warming in the past (warming stopped in 1998). In the more distant past the CO2 levels were much higher than today - even during the last big ice age levels were probable ten times the current level, and going much further back (during the time of the dinosaurs) levels were perhaps 20-30% of the atmosphere.

I enclose a couple of leaflets which may help to inform you more accurately.

Two things in science are never considered as evidence:
1. Modelling - computer modelling is NOT evidence of anything, unless it be the sheer impossibility of modelling climate!
2. Consensus - to say that 95% of ‘scientists’ think something is so is not evidence. Scientific knowledge is never advanced by consensus. It advances only by experiments and data gathering. Hypotheses to account for the data or experiments are tested sceptically, usually to destruction!


Yours sincerely,

Apr 6, 2015 at 3:27 PM | Unregistered CommenterPhilip Foster

Philip, I have made a suitable follow up letter, for others to write, without any copyright, but it does need to follow yours, with adjusted dates where necessary, of course:

Dame Helen Ghosh
DG National Trust
Heelis
Kemble Drive
Swindon SN2 2NA

7th April 2015

Dear Dame Helen,

I didn't listen to your interview on the Today programme 23/03/15, concerning the National Trust’s concerns about ‘Climate Change’, but I have read Philip Foster's splendid letter to you, dated 24th March, 2015.

If I had listened to you interview, I wish I could have written such a letter, as we are members of the NT and wouldn't want it to waste money.

Yours sincerely,

Apr 6, 2015 at 4:06 PM | Registered CommenterRobert Christopher

I remember seeing silverfish in the basement of the old Edinburgh Royal Infirmary 30 years ago. What's new?

Apr 6, 2015 at 4:21 PM | Registered CommenterMike Jackson

Robert Christopher

Thanks, We must keep badgering (is this right? Ed.). Being a civil servant, answering letters is not her strong suit... no reply as yet of course! If ever!

Apr 6, 2015 at 4:59 PM | Unregistered CommenterPhilip Foster

Philip Foster on Apr 6, 2015 at 4:59 PM

I infer you have sent the letter. Am I correct, and is the date of it correct?

Apr 6, 2015 at 6:14 PM | Registered CommenterRobert Christopher

As a member of the National Trust for Scotland is there any reason to believe that it is going down the same route as its English counterpart. If not (and I am not aware that it is) then the answer is simple Bishop - resign from NT and join NTS; membership of the one body gives you access to all the properties of the other body so you would still be doing your bit for conservation and would still have access to all properties.

Incidentally the NTS (and presumably the NT?) is a charity and so fighting "climate change" would almost certainly be outwith its charity objectives - a letter to the regulator would seem appropriate.

Apr 6, 2015 at 6:45 PM | Unregistered CommenterGuirme

Guirme, 6:45 pm: "Incidentally the NTS (and presumably the NT?) is a charity and so fighting "climate change" would almost certainly be outwith its charity objectives - a letter to the regulator would seem appropriate."

Totally correct, unless "fighting climate change", is within the stated objectives of NT/NTS, registered with the Charity Commission, then they are almost certainly exceeding their objectives, and should be reported to the CC.

But I doubt if such nuances will bother the likes of Helen Ghosh. She showed sod all interest in respecting either the little 'p' or the big 'P', when she stamped all over DEFRA in her jackboots.

Apr 6, 2015 at 7:16 PM | Registered CommenterSalopian

Well Delingpole's letter obviously didn't have much effect then.

Seems like she has a fine track record too.

The thought of paying this Fool's wages would certainly put me off signing up again (already a lapsed former member).

Apr 6, 2015 at 7:48 PM | Registered CommenterSimonW

I infer you have sent the letter. Am I correct, and is the date of it correct?

Yes posted as dated.

Apr 6, 2015 at 8:04 PM | Unregistered CommenterPhilip Foster

If you are a member of the NT, RSPCA, RSPB, Wildlife Trusts etc, etc. Make it bloody well clear to them that your continued sponsorship depends on them ceasing to spend your money on 'climate change'. Once they realise that the cash taps are being turned off and jobs are at stake, they will hopefully have a re-think.

Apr 6, 2015 at 8:12 PM | Registered CommenterSalopian

from her WIKI page -

Career
"Ghosh joined the Department of the Environment in 1979 as an Administration Trainee and held a series of policy roles. She was appointed Private Secretary to the Minister for Environment and Housing in 1986–88 and Head of the Housing Policy and Home Ownership Team in 1992. In July 1995, she joined the Cabinet Office on loan as Deputy Director of the Efficiency Unit then moved to a more operationally focused role in 1997 in the Government Office for London, where she worked as Director for London East and European Programmes, which brought her into contact with a variety of EU bodies, in particular those administering regeneration funds."

the last word above "funds" answers the question "why" for me (follow the money (tax payers). she knows how to tap into the gravy train as usual.

PS & OT - when I read "Ghosh" it reminded me of - (Pallab Ghosh no relation) - science correspondent for BBC News & another BBC waste of time IMO - Dark energy/Dark matter/Dark things we never thought about seems to be the in thing at the moment (not a settled science - but to OT for this thread)

Apr 6, 2015 at 10:36 PM | Unregistered Commenterdfhunter

Stupid woman. Last time the NT got involved in a controversial political issue (hunting) it was divisive and damaging. Surely she should remember and be aware of this.

Apr 6, 2015 at 10:42 PM | Registered CommenterPaul Matthews

To paraphrase a former Civil Service colleague at DEFRA, scientific discussions with the Dame were a bit like trying to stuff an over-sized duvet into an under-sized duvet cover.

Apr 7, 2015 at 1:14 AM | Registered CommenterSalopian

... and going much further back (during the time of the dinosaurs) levels were perhaps 20-30% of the atmosphere.

Nah - never remotely that high since photosynthesis started.

Apr 7, 2015 at 2:08 AM | Unregistered Commentersteveta_uk

Never resign.
Publicly announce "As a member of the organisation myself I can certainly say she never consulted the membership and isn't speaking for all of us."
Let yourself be driven from organisations over disagreements and there will soon be no dissenting voices left.

Apr 7, 2015 at 6:10 AM | Unregistered CommenterLeo Morgan

Just got news of a 25% off Membership offer
So I added this comment which has gone into moderation

25% off but 25% ON your energy bill* as the NT chairwoman Dame Helen Ghosh just announced using NT money for Climate Change lobbying ..so some members are leaving.
Daily Mail story
* via crazy green subsidies/measures etc.

Apr 7, 2015 at 8:29 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Philip Foster on Apr 6, 2015 at 8:04 PM

Letter sent, dated today.

Apr 8, 2015 at 12:33 PM | Registered CommenterRobert Christopher

I have received a reply - of sorts from the NT:

Dear Revd Foster (sic*)

Thank you for your letter to the Director-General, Dame Helen Ghosh, following her recent interview on the Today programme. Helen read your letter with interest and asked me to let you know that we have passed it to the appropriate team within the National Trust, for their information.

Yours sincerely


Alison Marsh
Director General's Correspondence Co-ordinator
National Trust - Heelis
Kemble Drive
Swindon SN2 2NA
Tel: 01793 817946 (dd)

alison.marsh@nationaltrust.org.uk

*though I am not fussy, it is correct form to address a clergyman as 'Dear Mr. X' not 'Dear Revd X'

Apr 8, 2015 at 10:06 PM | Unregistered CommenterPhilip Foster

If the NT use their funds for causes other than those in their original trust deed then it should be referred to the Charities Commioner.

Apr 17, 2015 at 10:24 PM | Unregistered CommenterDizzy Ringo

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