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« The Oz guide to climate change | Main | The Guardian apologises »
Saturday
Feb142015

Happy Mr Farage

There will be much happiness in UKIP circles today, with the announcement that Messrs Cameron, Miliband and Clegg are to sign a joint declaration on climate change, a move which has been brokered by green NGOs.

The prime minister, deputy prime minister and leader of the opposition have all clashed over green issues, but the joint declaration states: “Climate change is one of the most serious threats facing the world today. It is not just a threat to the environment, but also to our national and global security, to poverty eradication and economic prosperity.”

“Acting on climate change is also an opportunity for the UK to grow a stronger economy, which is more efficient and more resilient to the risks ahead,” the joint statement says. “It is in our national interest to act and ensure others act with us.” A senior UK military commander has warned previously that climate change poses as grave a threat to the UK’s security and economic resilience as terrorism.

A better way of making their parties look as if they are completely out of touch and/or working to NGOs' agendas is hard to imagine. That said, one of the pledges they make is to do away with coal-fired electricity generation. This may actually mean that the underlying message is "frack baby, frack".

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Reader Comments (164)

We have been discussing this on unthreaded.

I think we are all agreed that "Acting on climate change" is a major threat to the environment, to our national and global security, to poverty eradication and economic prosperity. There is plenty of evidence of this.

We must also remember that two of the three monkeys are PPEs, the third wrote a thesis on the political philosophy of the Deep Green movement and that their friends and families are all feeding at the climate change trough.

Feb 14, 2015 at 8:39 AM | Registered CommenterPhillip Bratby

It is rather worrying how much Putin's Green Pawns have infultrated our democratic processes. Even more worrying that our illustrious leader are oblivious to the threat.

"A senior UK military commander has warned previously that climate change poses as grave a threat to the UK’s security and economic resilience as terrorism."
How frightening that this person might command troops!

The mad have certainly taken over the sanitorium!

Feb 14, 2015 at 8:40 AM | Unregistered CommenterCharmingQuark

What on earth has got into their tiny little heads?

Feb 14, 2015 at 8:45 AM | Unregistered CommenterLatimer Alder

All three offending parties already emailed, to tell them that I do not support treason and do not support those who declare themselves deluded. Likely impact, of course, zero, but then, that's also the probability that I shall be voting for any of them.

Feb 14, 2015 at 8:48 AM | Unregistered CommenterSteve C

and yet there are still idiots who will vote for these idiots.

we live in an idiocracy

Feb 14, 2015 at 8:54 AM | Unregistered CommenterH2O: the miracle molecule

Demented.

Feb 14, 2015 at 8:59 AM | Unregistered CommenterAgouts

Proof, if that was still needed, that LibLabCon is led by 5th columnists out to destroy the UK's industrial economy and capitalism whilst impoverishing the population, including the early death of the teeming millions in the inner cities which are to die from lack of reliable electrical power.

Feb 14, 2015 at 9:10 AM | Unregistered CommenterNCC1701E

I note the Mail and BBC are not taking comments on their respective articles. It's probably just as well. No doubt Booker and Delingpole will write on this collective insanity and allow comments.

Feb 14, 2015 at 9:10 AM | Registered CommenterPhillip Bratby

Roger Harrabin, reporting this morning on BBC Breakfast News:

David Cameron originally promised the "greenest government ever" and travelled to the end of the world [sic] to prove his concern for the climate. But the conservative media have become increasingly sceptical about the threat from climate change. When Mr. Cameron announced cash to help poor people in countries like Bangladesh raise their homes out of the floodwaters, some Conservative backbenchers said the money should have been spent at home.

The Prime Minister has been increasingly making climate sceptic noises, but now he seems to have swung back. Coal-fired power generation will be banned, under the agreement the three party leaders have struck, unless new clean technology is introduced. The UK's world-leading Climate Change Act will not be scrapped, whoever wins the next election. Policies to reduce emissions from homes, cars and factories will continue. The three leaders say it'll be good for the UK economy, to save energy. Environmentalists say the deal is a landmark. Roger Harrabin, BBC News.

Feb 14, 2015 at 9:17 AM | Unregistered CommenterAlex Cull

"Acting on climate change is also an opportunity for the UK to grow a stronger economy...".
Sigh. No, acting on climate change is a net cost to the economy. More costs make us poorer. If lower CO2 options were cheaper then we wouldn't need legislation to force people.
I'm open minded on the UK taking some moderate, sensible measures to phase out coal burning and reduce CO2 emissions over the next few decades. But the argument needs to be 'It'll cost us, but we should do it'.
In developing countries, CC policies slow down poverty reduction, which is why the poorer countries should ignore the issue until they are a lot less poor.
To claim that CC policy makes the economy stronger is either world-class stupidity or utterly cynical dishonesty.

Feb 14, 2015 at 9:17 AM | Unregistered CommenterAlex

Ill-informed, Irrational and idiotic. Committing their parties and the UK to expensive, in-efficient and intermittent energy policies which will increase poverty and the national debt (the Climate Change Act is costing the UK £17billion pa) is unforgivable.

In some ways I am not surprised given the general ignorance of climate and energy policy amongst the political classes, but I do hold the civil servants and the scientific advisers responsible, as they should know better.

It's time for Lomborg's quote again:

"We live in a world where one in six deaths are caused by easily curable infectious diseases; one in eight deaths stem from air pollution, mostly from cooking indoors with dung and twigs; and billions of people live in abject poverty, with no electricity and little food. We ought never to have entertained the notion that the world’s greatest challenge could be to reduce temperature rises in our generation by a fraction of a degree."

Source: http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/bj-rn-lomborg-says-that-the-un-climate-panel-s-latest-report-tells-a-story-that-politicians-would-prefer-to-ignore

Feb 14, 2015 at 9:22 AM | Registered Commenterlapogus

Farage needs to release a statement including coal in the nations future energy mix. There are still 'coal communities' within the UK that have numbers of ex miners families that would vote UKIP.

Feb 14, 2015 at 9:24 AM | Registered CommenterLord Beaverbrook

Comments disabled by the DM. A bit strange when considering the vote manipulation that can override organic sentiment there anyway.

This cozy cartel agreement has been signed as JoNova reports Europe has wasted $100bn on "renewables mismanagement" and the governor of Oregon in the U.S. has resigned due to conflicts of interest of his fiancee being uncovered, tied in with a shell group intermeshed with Tom Steyer and the Rockefellers. Such things just represent the tip of the iceberg methinks.

Feb 14, 2015 at 9:24 AM | Registered Commentermyrightpenguin

So will Bishophill or GWPF put up it own Climate Change Sceptic parliamentary candidates in the next general election.

Would say James Dellingpole consider standing against his local Greens

Feb 14, 2015 at 9:27 AM | Unregistered CommenterJamspid

Clearly it can only get worse. Where are the sceptical MPs? There are some, but they do not act as a group, so we don't hear their views in The House.

Feb 14, 2015 at 9:28 AM | Unregistered CommenterPeter Stroud

When all three political parties agree on an action. You know its wrong.

They are actively acting against the interest of the people they are meant to represent by making.

Feb 14, 2015 at 9:35 AM | Unregistered CommenterJustAnotherPoster

As CCS evidently does not work that means they are effectively prohibiting new coal power stations. Nobody is building any gas because the subsidies are so skewed towards windmills, which as we all know produce next to nothing when we need the power. Nuclear will take 10 years just to get one station at Hinkley Point operational.

Which part of the generation capacity v peak demand graph (on page 24 in the pdf below) do they not understand? Who is advising our government ministers?

When will the lights go out

Feb 14, 2015 at 9:36 AM | Registered Commenterlapogus

We all knew already that the LibLabCon Party was responsible for high energy bills and for despoiling the countryside with useless wind turbines and, increasingly, fields of solar panels. However I suppose that the Scot Nats and, to a lesser extent, Plaid Cymru will be feeling a bit miffed since they too have been trying to despoil Scotland and Wales with "wind farms" while protecting the environment from the menace of "controversial process of fracking," as the BBC calls it.

Feb 14, 2015 at 9:38 AM | Unregistered CommenterRoy

Bish,

I'm afraid that there is no cause for rejoicing. People believe in climate change, they think that UKIP is wrong when we say that it is not going to be a catastrophe, and they are sure that the only way to stay safe is to do what they are told by the believers. The big climate lie is something they cannot conceive is anything other than the truth.

Nothing we say will alter this. When Labour tells lies and says that we will charge people to use the NHS, nothing we can say makes a difference. When I point out my Slav immigrant background, my Jewish grandchildren, the UKIP group in the council which can muster two immigrant wives, several mixed race children and a close relative in a same-sex marriage, we are still in their eyes homophobic, racist and anti-immigrant. The truth is not relevant to their world view. They believe because they want to believe, they want to avoid thinking. When we point to the temperature graphs they ignore us. They know we are wrong whatever the graphs say. It's Animal Farm out there. 'Two legs bad, four legs good'. Then when we are proved right, when the 'pause' reaches 20 years, 22, 25 and the Met Office finally admits that the models are wrong, even then they'll just chant 'four legs good, two legs better' without the least doubt, and keep on voting for the malignant fools who have ruined our industry, destroyed rain forests for palm oil plantations and enriched fat plutocrats like Al Gore.

The cult of climate change is killing more people every winter than die in traffic accidents. They know this They don't care.

We are governed by fools and charlatans. Well, I'm doing my bit, I'm buying the leaflets, sticking the damn things through letter boxes, talking to people, spending far too long on newspaper websites trying to counter the lies. Whatever happens no-one will be able to say to me that I didn't do my best to shout the truth from the rooftops. When the damage is done and we look around, aghast, no-one will be able to tell me that I should have fought harder against this aberration. Whatever happens it's not going to be my fault.

JF

Feb 14, 2015 at 9:39 AM | Unregistered CommenterJulian Flood

Yes and Lord Monckton as The UKIP Science Policy advisor tells it how it really is in a very recent telephone interview with Sterling Burnett, on the Heartland Daily Podcast on 12th February 2015, see the YouTube "video" - (audio track only, and a simple caption)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG6ROsfP0y0

Feb 14, 2015 at 9:40 AM | Unregistered CommenterClimate Debate Truth Videos

Julian Flood +1

Yes, we live in Orwellian times.

Feb 14, 2015 at 9:50 AM | Registered Commenterlapogus

To seek a fair, strong, legally, binding global, climate deal which limits temperature rises to 2°C

Well they are safe with that despite it being the statement of a set of Cnuts, because we are 97% sure that global climate wont go up 2°C due to CO2 at all anyway!

Essentially its all just reiterating the EU party line. No coal without carbon capture and carbon limitations imposed.

It will in the end mean more nukes. Or fracking. Or lights out.

Feb 14, 2015 at 9:52 AM | Unregistered CommenterLeo Smith

One has to ask what is it that 'they' know and are so certain of that we don't ? Any intelligent party would surely examine the counter-argument before committing to The Cause ? They are being 'directed' by the UN. The cost of disagreement is being spelled out to them in ways we may not imagine. Proffer an alternative explanation (without resorting to the tiresome mantra of 'saving the planet')...

Feb 14, 2015 at 9:52 AM | Unregistered CommenterManfred

Julian Flood +2

I'm doing as much as I can in helping the local candidates - it won't be my fault either.

Feb 14, 2015 at 9:56 AM | Registered CommenterPhillip Bratby

@Manfred, it's more the green 'blob' and international forces of NGOs and multinational interests such as Siemens. Dave's default is to take the least line of resistance particularly when it comes to Greenpeace, WWF, FoE, and activist charities, particularly with an election looming.

Feb 14, 2015 at 10:00 AM | Registered Commentermyrightpenguin

Suggestion for a picture or two for Josh:
Current British leaders as sock puppets or string marionettes of big green NGO's and make certain they are shown as puppets of Putin and super rich elites.
Maybe even a circular puppeteer stage, all manipulating each other in the name of "saving the world from CO2"....

Feb 14, 2015 at 10:02 AM | Unregistered Commenterhunter

Drax imports 14,000 tonnes of firewood a day from across the pond.

Say what you like about the Yanks, but it takes an extra special sales skill to sell their CO2 to the gullible.

Feb 14, 2015 at 10:04 AM | Unregistered CommenterJoe Public

Don't get too excited on this one. It merely shows how the " major" parties are wary of losing support to the Greens in marginal seats. It benefits them a to get this out of the way should there be a tv debate with Natalie Bennett, Sturgeon and Wood. It is probably a wise move and can easily be changed/revised following May.

Feb 14, 2015 at 10:05 AM | Unregistered Commentertrefjon

The Scene: In a parallel universe it is 1985 and Ed Miliband is PM and he is calling for the end of coal-fired power stations. The upshot of this is that all coal-mining in Britain has to be closed down. In the PM's office in Downing Street Ed Miliband is meeting with Arthur Scargill...

Cue the PM: "Well, Mr Scargill, I'm sure my government can expect your full support for our new Green manifesto pledge to do away with coal? - Say what? You want me to do what to myself? And Ed Davy as well? But, but, don't you see, this will help bring the country to a brighter economic future?"

Scargill: "Of course it will PM, and the National Unicorn Minders will drop everything and come out to support you and your wonderful party."

Feb 14, 2015 at 10:07 AM | Registered CommenterHarry Passfield

Mad Herd Syndrome. It is saddening to observe how easily people are swayed by PR into so much action and conviction based on so little of any substance.

Feb 14, 2015 at 10:08 AM | Registered CommenterJohn Shade

To this outside observer, it does highlight yet again the disconnection of the established political class with the masses.

No matter how many surveys are released showing that the public is singularly unimpressed with the apocalyptic propaganda, they just keep doubling down. Lib/Lab/Con, indeed!

It is undoubtedly a gift to Farage and Co, if they have the smarts and the resources to capitalise on it.

Feb 14, 2015 at 10:15 AM | Registered Commenterjohanna

Mr Canterbury regrets the bombing of Dresden. I regret WW2 killing my father and his brother (slowly). It happened...and for good reason. We were fighting psychopaths. Not forgetting Japan. Odd that a bill is outstanding for wrecking Greece? And our bills for wrecking the cities and life in Europe? And its not ended yet.

So it is with what's happening with our governments (parties)....slowly strangling the life out of us for the good of theirs.

For some reason too many people believe that Authority is right...just has to be? Its an observation and not an understanding. From the above its clear what Authority has been and is. Quoting military authority is madness, they are the very last to listen to...in peacetime.

We seem to be inter world war again...the fools running the wars have changed over to the fools who now run our lives. It will revert fairly soon I would think.

Feb 14, 2015 at 10:23 AM | Unregistered CommenterEx-expat Colin

Feb 14, 2015 at 9:10 AM | Registered CommenterPhillip Bratby

I just commented on this on the BBC website under Harribin's article.

Feb 14, 2015 at 10:29 AM | Unregistered CommenterStephen Richards

Well I dont know about you people BUT Im going to look in to how I can get on to the gravy train!

Mailman

Feb 14, 2015 at 10:38 AM | Unregistered CommenterMailman

http://www.carbonbrief.org/blog/2015/02/briefing-the-15-options-for-net-zero-emissions-in-the-paris-climate-text/

When this stuff is fed into politicians constantly, it's no wonder we get them falling over each other to lead the way to the madhouse.

The resources being poured into this are massive.

Pierre Gosselin has been looking at the German situation over the last few weeks. This is just one article on the problems there:

http://notrickszone.com/2015/02/04/germanys-energiewende-leading-to-suicide-by-cannibalism-huge-oversupply-risks-destabilization/

Feb 14, 2015 at 10:38 AM | Registered Commenterdennisa

David Cameron, Nick Clegg and Ed Miliband have agreed to work together to tackle climate change, as they warned it posed a threat to national security and economic prosperity.

I suppose they have all seen the 'dodgy dossier' to confirm the threat.

Feb 14, 2015 at 10:46 AM | Unregistered CommenterMartyn

Josh the 3 monkeys of course
Miliband can't see sense
Liberals won't listen
Cameron won't speak up about the truth

Feb 14, 2015 at 10:50 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Johanna @ 10.15: You point to the correct diagnosis but draw the wrong conclusions. The parties have merely agreed
to propose no changes in current policy, that is, there will be no debate during the election period. This leaves UKIP to expend its energy on the matter that the polls tell us is of the very least interest to the voters. If it is a gift it is a Greek one and Nigel is gullible enough to swallow it.
UK policy is entirely irrelevant to the process evolving towards COP21 Paris in December. It is EU policy which will be presented and the EU will make the "Nationally determined contribution" on our behalf (again removing a potential awkwardness from the election).
Leo @ 9.52 fingers it more concisely. The total "Nationally determine contributions" will not even approach the assumed
reductions needed. The result will be an even bigger, even more meaningless fudge, than all the previous COP's.

Feb 14, 2015 at 10:51 AM | Unregistered Commenterdiogenese2

Farage doesn't know his backside from his elbow and is unlikely to make political capital from this. When asked directly about climate change he bottles it and says that man does indeed have an impact on the climate which is piffle.
Unless he can talk about immigration he's a spent force. Much the same can be said for Helmer, UKIP's energy spokesman who talks the talk on his blog but "admits" that there is an effect on the climate from fossil fuel.
Both idiots so don't be holding your breath.

Feb 14, 2015 at 11:22 AM | Unregistered CommenterPaul

I would imagine that this is really a "Munich" agreement because the Conservatives do not want to fight on Climate Change. The Lib Dims have been neutered on the only policy which differed from the Cons, Milliband can be beaten on virtually every front and they all want to isolate UKIP. Anybody who saw the Aussie Sheila making a complete fool of herself for the Greens will not be converted so we are left with the status quo. Peace in our time as far as Cameron is concerned. He now has the nutters off his back. Oh for The Monster Raving Loony Party.....A bit of sanity in Politics.

Feb 14, 2015 at 11:26 AM | Unregistered CommenterIvor Ward

Remember, it's not what they say, it's what they do that counts. By signing up to this the conservatives can avoid green NGOs slagging them off in the press and on the bbc with the help of activists such as roger Harribin. After the election, if they do well, they can just quietly forget this pledge or more likely water it down a bit in a pragmatic way.

Feb 14, 2015 at 11:30 AM | Unregistered CommenterAbc

Meanwhile 40,000 extra old people will die this winter because they cannot afford both food and heat.

Congratulations to the political classes.

Feb 14, 2015 at 11:49 AM | Unregistered CommenterIvor Ward

Paul, 11.22am

Seems that UKIP's Roger Helmer DOES have a view on the subject. -


"By unilaterally setting fantasy targets on UK emissions, by closing down coal generation, they are condemning this country to
shortages and inflated prices that will hit, as they always do, the poorest hardest. Worse they will move manufacturing offshore, increase unemployment, undermine investment and cancel growth. More ridiculous still is that is doubtful that this policy will achieve any global reduction in CO2 emissions, rather it arguably increases them," said Helmer.

whole thing here -

http://www.ukip.org/bad_for_the_environment_bad_for_the_economy_bad_for_democracy

Feb 14, 2015 at 11:58 AM | Unregistered CommenterJazznick

Its a strange dissonance that has the uk leading the world in decarbonising its economy, when the recently launched co2 monitoring satellite shows in its images that the UK emissiona are practically negative probably due to its highly industrialised farming methods consuming co2. Far lower than its continental neighbours.

Feb 14, 2015 at 12:02 PM | Unregistered CommenterSceptical Me

Organised crime relies on families, gangs cartels etc. The public can be remarkably tolerant of gang warfare, provided innocent members of the public don't get drawn into any bloodbath.

In anticipation of a bloody turf war between gangs, ganggreen, fearful of a wipeout, have persuaded gangred, gangblue and gangorange not to fight on ganggreen territory, on the basis that they will side against any gang that urinates on their turf. Hoping to reduce the amount of turf they have to fight for, and defend, ganggreen has acquired magical swiss neutrality status, and will seek prosperity with whichever gang wins.

None of the four gangs, bothered to discuss this with gangpurple, because they all have experts, who tell them, they don't exist.

Feb 14, 2015 at 12:09 PM | Unregistered CommenterGolf Charlie

Ukip was already talking to the Durham miners and other pillars of the Labour party in the North.

It is hard to imagine that these or indeed the steel workers at Redcar, aluminium workers or anyone else in heavy industry will be hugely impressed.

Feb 14, 2015 at 12:10 PM | Unregistered Commenterdave

..."A senior UK military commander has warned previously that climate change poses as grave a threat to the UK’s security and economic resilience as terrorism."..

This recodes as:

"We need around £80bn to keep our toys operating. We get around £60bn. So we need a good excuse for a 'new threat' to go to the Treasury and ask for £20bn more..."

Feb 14, 2015 at 12:10 PM | Unregistered Commenterdodgy geezer

Given that old people are more likely to vote right-wing, I can't see the Guardian classes complaining much about this. In fact, given that a lot of them are likely to vote UKIP, I suspect that the Conservatives are happy as well...

Feb 14, 2015 at 12:14 PM | Unregistered Commenterdodgy geezer

I think gangpuple is expecting a horses head to make an appearance.

Feb 14, 2015 at 12:27 PM | Unregistered CommenterMartyn

It's going to be one helluva year. Grexit looms, gas price weakens Russia but it still wants to flex its muscles, Europe is having a nervous breakdown, ISIS, UK elections... What climate does and how we respond to it is going to be low on the agenda until December. By that time at least two of the main leaders won't be in their job. There will probably be a a second or third or forth party with a seat at the ministerial table. If we end up with Labour, Scots Nats, Lib Dems and Greens then there will be a revolution by Christmas anyway.

Of couse despite all the important stuff, expect a torrent of warmist propaganda from the usual sources. They're setting a lot of store on Paris 2015. Maybe it will be overkill?

We truly live in interesting times.

Feb 14, 2015 at 12:56 PM | Unregistered CommenterTinyCO2

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