Friday
Nov212014
by 
Bishop Hill
Bishop Hill UKIP's second MP
Nov 21, 2014 Climate: Parliament So UKIP, the only political party in Britain that seems willing to question the sanity of energy or climate change policy, has got itself a second MP. How much has their stance on these issues played a part in their recent success?
Reader Comments (53)
Climate meeting at Westminster (5th Nov) cancelled at last minute.
Roger Helmer hits Bercow with complaint letter after travelling from Brussels to attend.
http://rogerhelmermep.wordpress.com/2014/11/20/open-letter-to-rt-hon-john-bercow-mp/
This stinks..............
I don't think it had any bearing at all. My sense is that the majority of people who still bother to vote are just fed up with the entire political establishment. Most of us do not belong to any political party. Obviously that excludes the various party members, 'ists, 'ites, 'ives and so on but they are a small (if vociferous) minority. Consequently, they'll vote for anybody able to poke the culprits in the eye. It seems that most people vote 'against' things rather than 'for' things & I'll confess to being one of them.
How much has their stance on these issues played a part in their recent success?
Difficult to know without an in depth survey, but very important that you know.
I've not heard them hammering the point home, more emphasis on the EU & immigration.
Presumably Reckless has revised his views on global warming, if indeed he ever had any.
I can't find any record of his speaking on the subject.
Little...all immigration and Europe
Negligible and it will stay that way until/if the lights go out. Hence the incumbents will use any and all necessary generating systems to the lights on, irrespective of pollution or CO2 production.
I think DevDoz is spot on, here.
But, although I'm unconvinced by Farage as leader, I think Roger Helmer is very good indeed. One of a depressingly small number of politicians I would vote for with any enthusiasm.
But otherwise it is true that I will vote against the Cons, the Limp Dims, the Labia party and their Green chums at every opportunity.
I used to be a conservative party activist. That was until I realised that poor people were literally having to choose to “eat or heat”. Worst of all, my MP seemed not to care. Two years ago I researched energy policy and discovered UKIP………
It reminds me of heady days of the SDP. So Cameron now needs to get the UK involved in something patriotic like a new Falklands war to boost his electoral chances with the sheeple.
I am surprised that UKIP do not campaign on Energy Policy. At the moment I think they come across as a single issue party. The Energy Policy of both Labour and Conservative is absolute rubbish and ripe for pulling apart.
None at all, UKIP voters care about immigration and giving the Westminster clique a kick in the cojones.
The fact that mainstream politics has caused the public to move to an unkind hardline position on many things in society is regrettable but inevitable. That UKIP accidentally supports a more sensible climate policy plays zero part in their success.
I don't think the general populace are in the least bit interested in climate, just as they did not care about the imagined ozone hype or the acid rain debacle. People vote based on what they see and experience and what costs them money. I voted for Mebyon Kernow until they developed a "climate and sustainability policy" because I refuse to vote for a Lib Dim like Mr "invisible" Rogerson or a Tory clone from the Eton and Oxford school of trendy toryism. In future I will vote for UKIP as they have a sensible energy policy and do not consider that the UK should be part of a Federal State of Europe. I voted for the Common Market way back when and I still believe in the Common Market. A trading area in Europe free of tariffs seems eminently sensible. To suggest that I might have the same economic and political aspirations as the Greeks, the Bulgarians and the Germans for example seems to stretch it a bit. You will note that I did not even refer to the Labour party. Some things are too ridiculous to contemplate.
Two days ago the DT's Peter Oborne wrote :- "Let's suppose Cameron is defeated (at the GE). He would soon be deposed . The resulting leadership election would certainly be fought out between the head of the "No" camp (I would guess Owen Paterson) and a supporter of continuing membership".
Those of us who were at the GWPF know Owen's views.
He is apparently, to give a major speech on Europe on Monday - "it's timing is exquisite" as Oborne says.
We can but hope !
Very little in Rochester and Strood I suspect. However, deep in the heart of rural Devon the LibLabCon energy and climate policy is a very important consideration.
Like everybody else, I think climate policy is very little considered. People simply ain't interested. I remember when AR5 WG1 came out last September, the BBC has it top of the blog News. But in the top 10 popularity ratings it bombed.
Yeah, probably not much influence, I would guess. But the topic may well have the ability to generally bore the voters, a bit like Ms World contestants saying they think world peace is very important to them. The effects of boring the voters with global warming could be cumulative.
The most disappointing aspect is that the greens out-polled the Monster Raving Loonies, again.
'Very little' is the answer.
The great British public may not be the deepest of thinkers, but they know when democracy is being trashed.
I took great delight in telling my labour door-knocker that I was very concerned about Global warming, after a few minutes telling me how many baziilions they had committed to fighting it, I told her that it was that that concerned me.
The resulting gyrations would have made even janus blush
UKIP need to acknowledge that they are a "NONE OF THE ABOVE" vote, and to give a cast-iron guarantee that they would not treat a vote for them as a mandate for anything but a series of referenda on everything from Europe to energy policy, anti-corruption legislation to austerity.
Do that and they've won in May. If they don't do that then I can't see how they can honour the implicit assurances they've already given.
For me, the fact that they are the only party who oppose taking from the poor in rich countries to give to the rich in poor countries has a large bearing on my voting intentions.
Micheal Hart
Yes I found it rather worrisome that the Watermelon party got 1692 (4%) votes.
Presumably a fair few luvvies and Beebtoids live in the constituancy
I cannot imagine any grown up voters choose them.
It has been depressed wages and the increasing awareness that we are not getting along with each other, coupled with ignorance and indecision within government and the misconduct of the State Sector (and QUANGO) elites, while the 'workers' have had to deceive themselves to keep their jobs that has caused the shift.
Everything is becoming political, in a sinister way, with common sense and evidence dismissed as of no importance, and Focus Groups having more influence than knowledge and experience. Cameron excels at this. And he is the Prime Minister!
Whether it has been in the Rotherham police and social services, the Mid Staffs hospital, the financial regulators, the abandoned NHS IT project, the abandoned *illegal* Border Control IT project, the abandoned Emergency Call Centre Project, the spread of windmills and solar panels across the countryside, the regulatory hindrance to fracking, the Government borrowing money to give to Charity (and the EU), the UEA's non-Scientists, the Trojan Horse Schools, the green taxes transferring wealth from the poor to the rich, the deterioration of the National Grid and confusion in the energy market, the supine approach to alien laws and customs, the rejection of our heritage, having to monitor thousands of potential terrorists on the streets of London alone, allowing foreign sovereign funds to buy nationally strategic assets, our increasing national debt, or just the feeling that we are second class citizens, we feel we, the People, have lost our sovereignty, and we want it back!
Now that UKIP have more MPs than the Greens, I hope the BBC will allow the Green-agenda to 'pause', and the UKIP agenda to be more prominent. The LibLabCon do not have an agenda for Britain, only for British provinces within the EU.
Mark Reckless on Green Energy
..you didn't look very far @Mike Jackson- Do recent votes/polls show Ed Davey is "Energy and Climate Change spokesman"
for Britain's 6th most popular party ?
UKIP infiltrated by MI5 - Norman Tebbit (2001`).
Nigel Farage, a UKIP spokesman, said he could not discount Lord Tebbit's remarks. He said: "I have mused for a long time on the peculiar events in the UKIP and the attempts to destroy UKIP. "I have mused over whether it was the far left, the far right, the Conservatives, but I just don't know."
http://news.sky.com/story/35324/tebbits-mi5-infiltration-claims
MI5 owns these clowns and will sabotage them before the general election, like they did with the BNP.
Good points Robert Christopher.
This report from the Biased Beeb (Scottish version) this morning.
www.bbcnews-edinburgh's bright choices honour abuse project wins £800k lottery cash.
should add grist to the mill.
Delingpole has just posted a blog at Breitbart "outing" Thornberry and Letwin.
Oliver "Wetwin" was appointed "Minister of State for Policy" by "Dave" and has been his most important mentor ever since.
He is, however, by far the most dangerous and influential member of the cabinet, having opposed anyone who sought to denigrate the Green Agenda or to question our "low carbon future", and seen many, such as Owen Paterson, defenestrated.
In August 2011, with funding from SHELL, Oliver Letwin and Geoffrey Lean (aided and abetted Ed Miliband, Caroline Lucas and Shell UK's then chairman - Graham van't Hoff) posted a series of articles under the heading of "Age of Energy".
These revelations sought to set out the Green Agenda which Cameron, Huhne and Davey have slavishly followed.
Here's a taster from Letwin :- ".. the Green Investment Bank, the Green Deal, support for electric cars and the roll out of smart meters and a smart grid to the whole country over the next decade . We are taking action today that will deliver the Green Economy tomorrow......the Green Economy means Green Growth and Green Jobs - with estimates of another 73,000 new jobs coming from the Green Deal energy efficiency programme alone".
Please remember that this is not some dreamy back-bencher rambling away - this is the ultimate architect of all the Green Madness we are now facing .
His volte-face on Europe has suddenly left him exposed, now he's been outed let's make sure this truly dreadful man remains there like a beached whale !
If we have a cold winter and a lot of power cuts then energy will probably take its place alongside EU membership and immigration as an important political issue.
While I have some sympathies for immigration issues the fact is that Brits are far too inclined to blame foreigners for whatever has gone wrong in their lives and this Euro blame game stems from the top. Anything good that happens is clearly due to UK policy and anything bad is due to the Eurozone crisis. No wonder the sheeple are revolting.
When the pound was far too high, based purely on unsustainable house prices thank god we aren't in the Euro they'd cry. When the pound crashed by 30% overnight they then said thank god we aren't in the Euro or we couldn't devaluate the currency. Now the Eurozone is trying to pay back it's debt while the UK kicks the can down the road and repeats the Blairite mistake of stoking up house prices to create another false boom and - true to form - again has the cheek to lecture the rest of Europe to follow us off the cliff once more. Have they been sleeping? Are they really so dumb? Seems so! Few here noticed that the Euro was actually stable all this time while the dollar and pound boomed and crashed thanks to blind, dumb faith that you can make money from just moving money around rather than actually making stuff.
Meanwhile analysts in the Eurozone adroitly place the blame with London bankers for flogging toxic US subprime debt around Europe and thereby causing the debt crises in the first place. The main difference between us seems to be that the UK still props up these bankers despite all the evidence that they are bad for Britain. I have vivid memories of the ERM debacle when the City made an absolute fortune selling out the rest of the country and they couldn't keep the stupid grins off their faces. The UK.gov still wants to allow these 5th columnists the ridiculous bonuses that created such casino capitalism and only Europe is stopping them.
Alas whether in Europe or not our ruling classes seem equally stupid. But I'm still leaving for Europe again upon retirement just so that I can spend less on heating and food and get more proper house for my money. Many of you will be joining me there I predict, so be careful what you wish for.
toad
Try googling "Oliver Letwin+Crispin Tickell" and see where it leads you!
I lived in Rochester in the '70s. There was, even then, a very large immigrant population which , for me, means that this win was an even greater achievement than it might at first appear.
I have voted UKIP in the past based on their position on climate change.
The Tories have still got the better chance of a EU referendum and I think that DM is being forced into a position that he would rather not be in, but it's not going to matter for him.
Red Ed is just too unbelievable to consider and the socialist politicos have now shot themselves in the foot big time by revealing their bourgeoisie roots and anti working class skeletons.
In pubs up and down the country this Friday night there will be 'blokes' who binge drink 8 pints whilst having to stand out in the cold to smoke their fags calling each other 'white van Tom' and 'white van Bob' singing out to those 'suities' to see if they've got a St Georges cross 'tat' on their chest. Climate change may be more enticing to the Etonian socialist than the working men's club affiliate but it will start being seen as one of them poncy topics that them who don't know what a real job is worry about on a Friday night. UKIP only has to go down the pub and there will be a major redecoration from red to purple.
After the by election when Nigel Farage said 'right I'm off for a pint' needs to be encompassed in a song for release at xmas with someone like 'Ant'n'Dec' to get the ladies involved.
Fickle.... certainly but you ask the average punter away from 'Loondon's oh so social district' who they are thinking of voting for in May or how much boose they can get through at xmas then you will find out how fickle the Great British public will be, see the frown turn into a wide smile as reality dawns.
Nov 21, 2014 at 12:49 PM | JamesG
I live in europe now. It is not pretty at ground level. The economy has been stagnant for nearly 10 years, prices, relative to salaries, have been climbing non-stop as a result of medieval labour regulations, house prices have not risen for 12 years, Germany has strapped itself to an uncontrolled green party which is forcing down their economy. The only possible choice for the UK is to get out. You don't belong in this pile of sh&t. They will attack your money base, as they are doing now in order to bring you down. Germany wants to be the leader but cannot be if they continue on their current course and the UK continues to grow. Unfortunately, they cannot change course. They have given the green communists too much power and cannot now take it back.
Even the americans are asking why anyone would have thought that 12 languages, 27 currencies, communist and socialist countries which were failing could suddenly become stable without an enormous transfer of money from the wealthier countries and why that transfer wouldn't bring down the whole organisation.
It is staffed by a very large group of failed polis from failed socialist countries. WHY WOULD IT WORK ?
JamesG
I hope you are not considering France which looks to me like a long-term "Basket Case".
Stephen Richards
The reason Europe is a mess is
1. American gangster rating agencies who raided Europe for trillions of dollars in criminal, worthless mortgage backed securities.
2. American gangster rating agencies who attacked the Euro and individual countries borrowing capacities.
Summary. American public / private gangsters are destroying Europe's economy along with carbon limits the gangsters don't apply to themselves.
Everything you need to know about JPMorgan’s $13 billion settlement
It was losses on mortgage securities like those involved in this case that triggered a loss of confidence in the U.S. banking and financial system. Securities that had been rated AAA that were based on faulty underlying mortgages turned out to be junk, and losses on them prompted huge losses for big banks and other investors, causing a crisis of confidence in the global banking and financial system. That in turn necessitated a $700 billion bailout of the U.S. banking system, and a bailout of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that has totaled $188 billion.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/21/everything-you-need-to-know-about-jpmorgans-13-billion-settlement/
Did the gangsters hand the money back ? Nope.
A lot of good points made on this thread, I feel that the green agenda has stayed too much in the background of current affairs and politics of the Westminster bubble. Those who tarry here on this ere blog - we are alerted - in consternation! However, the general public, has not a clue about the parlous state of affairs brought about by the idiots running the DECC and the executive - and it goes back to Margaret Thatchers days in office - let us not dally with that thought for too long. Sufficed to observe, the present incumbents are no better nor, are they any worse than Miliband's apparitions, should I say green goblins.
What we have in Britain is energy policy written by and driven by a small clique; NGO eco warriors in cahoots with the likes of Miliband and later Huhne and Davey. Leaders. meddlers, pedlars and the department of energy and climate change Defra, who in turn are encouraged, financed and bolstered by a mush of green hedge funds, the insurance industry, investment banks [Deutsche Bank/Goldman Sachs] and the green loons in Brussels and of course at the top of the pyramid selling, UNESCO - agenda 21 is their big idea.
But out there, the public are mainly, gloriously, unaware, what would get their attention is some sort of serious outages, but even if we get away without blackouts this winter and the betting is we won't [maybe] - the people imho; still need to be engaged - UKIP are missing a trick here im VERY ho.
So said Ross Lea.
Ross, I agree wholeheartedly, if people could be made to understand the very real facts, that, the green agenda has caused domestic energy bills to soar since circa 2002 - up by 125% and north of that - it could be a great vote winner for UKIP.
Aye not all of the rises can be blamed on the paraphernalia of 'green' but the knock on effects are considerable. More, we are only at the start of the great switch off, what is to come will seem by comparison, what we pay today and receive - we are spoilt for 'cheap and plentiful' illumination.
UKIP, must open their mouths and now.
Nov 21, 2014 at 1:38 PM | E. Smiff
So the European banks have been exonerated by you from any responsibility when they bought all these "worthless" papers without reading the small print? The same with UK banks and the regulators including Gordon Brown's "soft" regulatory regime. If the banks and regulators had been doing their due diligence, the financial "disease" would have been kept out of Europe.
John Peter
I knew a guy at school (Paisley) and Glasgow University. His name is Douglas Ferrans. he was head of HBOS Insight $150 billion investment fund that crashed . He emailed me 'the people that stole the money are a lot smarter than me.'
http://www.scotsman.com/business/new-blow-for-hbos-as-insight-boss-ferrans-prepares-to-abandon-ship-1-1077363
Wall Street gangsters.
Don't bother asking for the money back. The horse's head is in the post. It has been tried.
Banks want to replace mortgage securities with carbon securities. Same game.
Carbon Capitalists Warming to Climate Market Using Derivatives
As a young London banker in the early 1990s, Blythe Masters of JPMorgan Chase was part of JPMorgan’s team developing ideas for transferring risk to third parties. She went on to manage credit risk for JPMorgan’s investment bank.
Among the credit derivatives that grew from the bank’s early efforts was the credit-default swap. A CDS is a contract that functions like insurance by protecting debt holders against default. In 2008, after U.S. home prices plunged, the cost of protection against subprime-mortgage bond defaults jumped. Insurer American International Group Inc., which had sold billions in CDSs, was forced into government ownership, roiling markets and helping trigger the worst global recession since the 1930s.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=aXRBOxU5KT5M
michael hart
Loonies? Do you mean the Lib Dems?
Their voters, who bothered to vote, were the ones who voted Green.
Mike Jackson
Thanks for that - most illuminating.
A search through "climate-sceptic literature" reveals little about Letwin. Booker, Montford and Delingpole don't seem to mention him.
However Rupert Darwall's "The Age of Global Warming" has this revealing comment on page 267 "Hugging Huskies".
" Green issues were central to Cameron's rebranding of the Conservative Party. The shift began after the 2005 election during Oliver Letwin's tenure as shadow Defra Secretary. In October, Letwin and his Liberal Democrat counterpart Norman Baker, issued a joint letter urging "independent verification of year on year carbon reduction requirements".
"One of the progenitors of the Poll Tax in the 1980's, Letwin was also David Cameron's Chief policy adviser in his campaign for the Conservative party leadership".
So "Dave" does indeed owe it all to 'Olly", and he's ever so grateful !
I joined UKIP because of their stance on energy, unfortunately their common sense on energy wasn't matched by a belief in democracy or Scotland. So, now I'm intending to stand myself if I can get enough funds.
However, if Andrew would like to stand maybe we in Scotland could also have a party?
toad
Adding Letwin to the list (Tickell, of course, was already on it, along with assorted other luminaries whose scientific knowledge would barely cover a postage stamp) merely reinforces the argument that climate is an excuse and that (I quote Wirth for the third time in the last 24 hours) "[E]ven if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing -- in terms of economic socialism and environmental policy."
Letwin is a cuckoo in the Tory nest!
UKIP as a party are contrarians, to be climate sceptic is a natural response and is also a stick to beat Dave's natural constituency with. The more significant development is the comparative rise of the Green Party and the terminal decline of the Lib Dems and possibly "New" Labour. If Miliband gets to Christmas as leader I would be mildly surprised, this would give the realists in a resurgent traditional Labour a chance to do its own version of ditching the green doo doo.
There seems to be some doubt on UKIP's Energy Policy. Go to ukip.org/policies_for_ people
Roger Helmer MEP is responsible for Energy Policy. Over the years Roger has written many papers on climate change and energy sources - go to his site 'straight talking, where can look up such items as 'New nuclear in South Cariolina.
In a nut shell:
– UKIP will repeal the Climate Change Act 2008 which costs the economy £18bn a year.
– UKIP supports a diverse energy market including coal, nuclear, shale gas, geo-thermal, tidal, solar, conventional gas and oil.
– We will scrap the Large Combustion Plant Directive and encourage the re-development of British power stations, as well as industrial units providing on-site power generation.
– UKIP supports the development of shale gas with proper safeguards for the local environment. Community Improvement Levy money from the development of shale gas fields will be earmarked for lower council taxes or community projects within the local authority being developed.
– There will be no new subsidies for wind farms and solar arrays.
– UKIP will abolish green taxes and charges in order to reduce fuel bills.
To be able to implement policies you have to be in Government or have sufficient MP's to force your will in Parliament.
BH readers can help achieve this by voting for UKIP
Energy policy, despite the rising costs due to one Edward Davey are not a major issue to the electorate at large. Should the lights go out, then it will become a major issue.
EU membership and immigration are the major issue, but as we all know the EU was responsible for Large Combustion Plant Directive, carbon credits (super-ceded by Osborne's Carbon Price Floor, 2030 & 2050 Carbon emission's (the Climate Change Act).
UKIP are only party that wishes to exit the European Union and repeal the CCA. Leaving the EU would deprive the green blob of much of their funding and reduce lobbying of Westminster.
"Leaving the EU would deprive the green blob of much of their funding "
Sheildsman what about Rolls Royce in Derby and Airbus just one example and lots more.
Now the big question obviously we have to stay in NATO but do we leave the European Union.And i don't think we can.
Where too far in .Remember we fought to keep Scotland for defense and national identity.
Reforming the EU generally has to come from inside.Sorry.
Each party pushes its unique selling point. Tories have the economy. Labour the NHS. LibDems tofu recipes. Greens transgender toilets. UKIP EU/immigration.
For me the principal attraction of UKIP is their energy policy. I would not vote at all if the only choice was to perpetuate the current moribund politics of mediocrity.
In principle UKIP should be countering the Tories' claims to be the champions of the economy by pointing out the enormous amount of money that has been wasted on climate change policies, to the detriment of the economy and the vast majority of the citizens. The problem is that it does not have the visceral appeal of immigration so I see it as being (unfortunately) a background policy. Of course, as others have said, if we have major blackouts energy policy will become front and centre very quickly.
There is a lot of talk about the 2,900 vote majority being not as big as expected and not sustainable in the General Election.
This can be equated with the Conservative call for other parties to vote tactically causing the very low turn out for the Liberals and Labour. In the General Election such tactical voting will not happen so the current majority should be boosted by a couple of thousand when considering looking forward.
None whatsoever. And I certainly would not rely on UKIP's current policy on climate change being the same next May. Farage has already done a U-turn on NHS privatisation, and today his newest MP is accusing him of changing policy on immigration. It is beginning to look like UKIP policy depends on what the Great Leader is thinking that morning - hope he's not morphing into a western Kim Jon Un.