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« Fast freeze | Main | Lords of topsy-turvy land »
Wednesday
Oct232013

Wednesday open thread

In my absence, here is an open thread for any climate and energy news today.

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Reader Comments (42)

The Beeb even manages to allude to "climate change" in this story about spiders forcing a school to close.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-24623652

I'm convinced its subbies are on a commission scheme.

Oct 23, 2013 at 7:49 AM | Unregistered CommenterJoe Public

The Beeb has toned their report (above) down slightly.

Last night it mentioned "climate change", now it mentions "believe a change in the climate"

Oct 23, 2013 at 8:06 AM | Unregistered CommenterJoe Public

Lacklustre performance from Peter Lilley on Today this morning. Just one dig at the Climate Change Act, on which he didn't elaborate at all. To think I listened through Thought for the Day to make sure I didn't miss him. [rolls eyes]

Oct 23, 2013 at 8:30 AM | Unregistered CommenterNeil McEvoy

Perhaps the Bishop himself should do Thought for the Day - might actually give people something to think about.

Where is he anyway - gone to a Synod or something?

Oct 23, 2013 at 8:58 AM | Unregistered CommenterKen

Some Amusement:
Someone on a recent thread mentioned GreenAngelChloe over at the Grun and what a loon she is. Well check out her profile and comment history at:

https://id.theguardian.com/profile/greenangelchloe/public

She cannot be real? Very worrying that people like this actually exist and can vote.

Oct 23, 2013 at 9:05 AM | Unregistered CommenterBlack Dog

"Just one dig at the Climate Change Act"

But at least he made it. I'm sure Cameron would love to point out that Miliband was the author of the CCA, but he can't because he supported it. Lilley at least had the wit not to and so can draw attention to it.

Oct 23, 2013 at 10:57 AM | Registered Commenterjamesp

To follow up on the Black Dog link - I had a look at the Green Angel (oxymoron and moron as it turns out) - her first post reads as follows

The problem is that national governments don't always do the right thing, as unenlightened, uninformed people will elect unenlightened, uninformed politicians.

The short term solution would be direct rule by the United Nations in some capacity, with sustainability and climate change as overriding priorities. In the long term, capitalism and industry will need to be curtailed and switched off, but that would be a start.

Christiana Figueres has her heart in the right place, but she's wrong about fossil fuels. "There will always be a base load provided by fossil fuels". No, there won't. No capitalistic consumer economy, no electric grid, no need for baseload, no need for fossil fuels.

Quite refreshing really to see the true intent of the Green Menace writ large.

Fortunately Black Dog we live in a (sort of) democracy where the Green Angel only gets the one vote like you and me. If she were to get her way you and me would probably not get a vote or anything to eat.

Oct 23, 2013 at 11:34 AM | Unregistered CommenterDolphinlegs

Oh, I don't know, Dolphinlegs. In her world (note that she modestly describes herself as an angel), dolphins and black dogs would probably get a vote.

Oct 23, 2013 at 11:40 AM | Registered Commenterjohanna

Only informed dolphins and enlightened black dogs would vote. Mebbe they'd be the leaders, here from the UN to help us.
==========

Oct 23, 2013 at 11:59 AM | Unregistered Commenterkim

Deep ocean heat causes Australian army to use live ammo

There are a number of claims doing the rounds that the bush fires in Oz have been caused by climate change.Here is an example

http://paulgilding.com/cockatoo-chronicles/lets-talk-about-bushfires-climate-change-and-coal.html

In the manner much loved by the green activist Paul tells us

Of course no one can …….. draw a direct causal relationship between any particular fires and climate change

But that is what the whole piece purports to do

So, given no surface warming for 15+ years and the ‘fact’ that all the missing heat is hidden in the deep ocean and the Australian army has admitted it started one of the fires by using live ordnance the conclusion that has to be drawn is as stated in the heading

Oct 23, 2013 at 12:02 PM | Unregistered CommenterDolphinlegs

Yep, and another one near Newcastle which threatened life and property was started by an 11 year old boy. An academic quickly rushed to his defence, saying that what with climate change and all, a childish prank could unintentionally turn into a catastrophe. Just to reinforce the message, the boy's father, and the boy, gave the finger to the media when they were leaving court (see photo):

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/climate_change_did_it/

Not surprisingly, Our ABC gave airtime to the airhead academic, who, while not being in any way qualified in human behaviour, is in one of those Sustainability outfits that universities are now infested with.

Oct 23, 2013 at 12:41 PM | Registered Commenterjohanna

Re: Oct 23, 2013 at 9:05 AM | Black Dog

Amusing, indeed, if that's quite the word for it??

Interesting to see what her vision of the future is.....

"Plundering is a feature of capitalist society. Scoffing is a feature of consumerist society. Both will cease when capitalism dies.

Basic agriculture will provide the staples. These can be complemented by gathering berries, nuts and fungi growing in woodland and the decayed remnants of "modern" infrastructure.

People will take what they need and no more - it will be a harsh lesson for some."

https://id.theguardian.com/profile/greenangelchloe/public

Oct 23, 2013 at 12:42 PM | Unregistered CommenterMarion

Chloe missed a bet. There are lots of edible creepy crawly critters.
===========

Oct 23, 2013 at 12:53 PM | Unregistered Commenterkim

re. greenangelchloe
Holy f***, she's a bundle of joy isn't she! And isn't she abusy little bee. I am correct in assuming she has a pedal generator under her desk? No? Surely not, she wouldn't use 'dirty' electricity, would she? Chloe, news just in. Even 'green' electricity is contaminated by capitalism, si I guess you've got to stop using it. Nevermind, perhaps the fungi you advocate foraging for cam make some for you.
F***wit!
SimonJ

Oct 23, 2013 at 12:59 PM | Unregistered CommenterSimonJ

I consume, therefore I scoff. Mebbe she meant 'scarf'.
====================

Oct 23, 2013 at 1:02 PM | Unregistered Commenterkim

Breaking news - David Cameron to 'review green taxes'.... (PMQ's; 1400 23.10.13)

Don't hold your breath....

Oct 23, 2013 at 2:09 PM | Unregistered CommenterSherlock1

It's worse, and we need new resources - dollars and such - in the face of droughts, floods and hurricanes:
la Nacion, San Jose Costa Rica 22 Oct 2013
http://www.nacion.com/opinion/editorial/Cambio-climatico-vulnerabilidad-regional_0_1373662628.html

Oct 23, 2013 at 2:18 PM | Unregistered CommenterJohn R T

With regard to the spider report on BBC TV I particularly liked the map of Great Britain coloured red for danger as far as the Scottish border which formed the backdrop to the commentary that the false black widow had reached as far as the midlands since it's first incursions 100 years ago.
Obviously the move to Salford has perturbed the geographical and spatial comprehension of the metropolitan BBC reporters forced to relocate in northern England.
However an oportunity seems to have been missed to produce a graph correlating the increase in CO2 with the northward migration of said spider.

Oct 23, 2013 at 2:27 PM | Unregistered Commenterroger

From the BBC "The petrochemical plant at the giant Grangemouth complex in central Scotland is to close with the loss of about 800 jobs, owner Ineos has announced."
I think this goes much deeper than the usual corporate/union power struggles.


"According to the Scottish government, the complex as a whole contributes around a billion pounds a year to the economy."

Well, if you think you can decarbonise the Scottish economy with wind-power and dispense with fossil fuels & petrochemicals, then this is the lesson you will have to learn at some point.

There are harsher lessons coming if politicians continue saying all the right things to discourage probably the most important industry on the planet. Appeasement of Greenpeace et al will only make it worse: they only offer problems, not viable solutions.

Disturbingly,

"Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond said the closure of the petrochemical plant was the "outcome that matches our worst fears"".

What is disturbing to me is that Alex Salmond's worst fears are not nearly bad enough.

Oct 23, 2013 at 3:12 PM | Unregistered Commentermichael hart

Just read this over at the BBC, is the tide turning ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24637499

Cameron 'panicking' over energy taxes, say Lib Dems

The Liberal Democrats have accused David Cameron of making a "panicky U-turn" after he announced a review of green energy taxes.

The prime minister said household bills were at "unacceptable levels" and promised to "roll back" regulations introduced by Labour.

Oct 23, 2013 at 4:25 PM | Unregistered CommenterBilly Goats Gruff

My, but GreenAngleChloe [sic] is a happy bunny, isn’t she:

No capitalistic consumer economy, no electric grid, no need for baseload, no need for fossil fuels.

She missed out the conclusion to her dreams: “no humans.” But, perhaps that is what she wants… erm… except for her, of course, and her oh-so-sensible friends.

Go down a bit further, and that IS what she wants (“…gathering berries, nuts and fungi growing in woodland…”).

And then such arrogance: “How much energy do the Yanomamo or the Inuit "need"?” However much energy anyone needs, you can bet your bottom dollar that they would want a lot more. But, “In the long run, it would lead to a happier society…

So many little girls dream of making the world so much better, with world peace and fluffy bunnies and everybody happy and hugging each other. Most of us grow up, though.

Oct 23, 2013 at 5:40 PM | Unregistered CommenterRadical Rodent

The Grangemouth closure will go a long way to achieving the "decarbonisation" of the economy that Milliband has promised. However it has huge negative implications for the UK economy and in particular the Falkirk Grangemouth area,and is not something that any right minded person should be welcoming. The indifference of David Cameron contrasts with the approach of Alex Salmond who does seem to be very actively trying to pursue some sort of rescue. However one must question the absolute idiocy of the 50% of the workforce who rejected the survival plan knowing that it would lead to closure; as for the union Unite clearly it is scarcely credible that an organisation which claims to represent workers could be so stupid.

Oct 23, 2013 at 5:45 PM | Unregistered CommenterGuirme

Freesheet from West Sussex County Council has a piece about flooding saying "Due to climate change the risk of
flooding will increase as sea levels rise, winter rainfall increases and flash storms become more frequent".

As I had a bit of time to spare I've submitted a FOI request asking them what evidence they have for these statements. I'm sure they'll respond within the proper time-scales but I'm not confident that I'll be satified with their answer -
WhatDoThey Know FOI Request West Sussex CC

Oct 23, 2013 at 5:51 PM | Unregistered CommenterJockdownsouth

Good on you, Jock. Please keep us updated with the results.

Oct 23, 2013 at 6:55 PM | Unregistered Commenterjohanna

@Jockdownsouth it could be a cover your ass job
Council cuts budget, stops drainage maintenance ..place get flooded .. then they say see we told you "climate change" could bring floods ...(not our fault of course) ..and can we get a climate change grant for that ?"

Oct 23, 2013 at 7:19 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Re: Oct 23, 2013 at 5:45 PM | Guirme

Yet Alex Salmond has very vigorously pursued those decarbonisation targets putting the Scottish economy at risk -

"Pointing out Scotland had the world's most ambitious targets, with a commitment to cut emissions by 42% by 2020, he [Salmond] added: "People are gong to listen to states large and small if they're leading by example."

Speaking generally, the first minister said there had to be a deal in Copenhagen.

"Too many people have too much political capital invested in Copenhagen for there not to be something of an agreement - I think the real issue is going to be the determination to implement what I think will emerge form these talks," he said. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8411926.stm

"The SNP leader also called for binding greenhouse gas reduction targets to help give certainty to businesses.

During his visit, Mr Salmond met with UN Secretary General Ban Ki Moon and Premier Wen of China.

He took part in a majilis - a public audience held by the ruler Mohammed bin Zayed Al Nahyan Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi.

The gathering has been discussing energy security, sustainability and the transition to a low carbon future.

"I believe we have a once-in-a-generation opportunity to enshrine this important principle - that economic development should be linked to human rights - in global energy policy”

Alex Salmond
First Minister

Mr Salmond said: "Scotland's energy challenges and champions make us a leader in the international sustainability debate. We are also world leaders in the transition to a low carbon economy and in particular the renewables revolution."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-16584424

Indeed he can't seem to do enough to push the UN global climate agenda -

"Scotland to take the lead

As the conference hosts, all eyes were on Scotland on Wednesday. Opening the conference, First Minister, Alex Salmond announced the country would be doubling its Climate Justice Fund to £6 million. The money will go towards increasing resilience in developing countries already facing the impacts of climate change.

Salmond also said he was determined to push for a global climate agreement saying

“the Scottish Government has been at the forefront of the fight against climate change, such as our ambitious emissions reduction and renewables targets.”

http://tcktcktck.org/2013/10/climate-justice-conference/57624#sthash.h1hWErsh.dpuf


Seems that it's Alex Salmond who has rather a lot of political capital invested in the UN global climate agenda!!


No matter that he's plunging so many of the Scottish people into fuel poverty!!

"More than one-third of Scots households are currently estimated to be in fuel poverty and with rising bills the figure has been increasing.

A recent Scottish Government report, Fuel Poverty Evidence Review, says: "If five-year trends in the fuel-poverty ratio continue, it is projected that the Scottish mean fuel spend will exceed 10% on average by 2012, steadily rising to 12% by 2015, pushing the average household into fuel poverty from 2012." "

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/feeble-snp-blamed-as-fuel-poverty-soars.18764532

Oct 23, 2013 at 7:44 PM | Unregistered CommenterMarion

Cameron and green taxes.

It seems that the PM will go ahead with reviewing, and hopefully reducing green taxes. Regardless of what the looney LibDems say. Now is the time for Cameron to bring in someone on the scientific sceptic side to brief the cabinet: and senior backbenchers

Oct 23, 2013 at 8:22 PM | Unregistered CommenterPeter Stroud

Marion (Oct 23, 2013 at 7:44 PM):

Ah. Mixing with the Big Boys, the real reason for “independence”: “Mr Salmond met with UN Secretary General Ban Ki Moon and Premier Wen of China …. the ruler Mohammed bin Zayed Al Nahyan Crown Prince of Abu Dhabi.”

No doubt, he is happy as Larry now that Grangemouth is to close – another carbon industry down, another step towards decarbonisation. All he will have to do soon will be to figure out how to stop the peasants burning wood logs and peat in their fire places.

Oct 23, 2013 at 10:01 PM | Unregistered CommenterRadical Rodent

How much of the Grangemouth decision is due to energy prices in the UK. Who in their right mind would take on such an energy intensive plant in the UK with the effects of the Climate Change Act about to really ramp up. Make energy expensive locally and the net effect will inevitably be the export of jobs. The workers at Grangemouth may be about to find this out the hard way.

Oct 23, 2013 at 10:10 PM | Unregistered CommenterEddieo

Re: Oct 23, 2013 at 10:01 PM | Radical Rodent

Quite! Salmond never does explain to the Scottish people how his clamour for 'independence' reconciles with his determination that Scotland will remain in the EU.

So 8% of Scottish manufacturing down the pan - those decarbonisation targets for the EU/UN just get easier and easier!!

As for the peasants, well Salmond has plans -

"Almost complete decarbonisation of road transport by 2050 with significant progress by 2030 through wholesale adoption of electric cars and vans, and significant decarbonisation of rail by 2050."

http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/road/sustainability/Transport-and-Climate-Change#sthash.evy175kB.dpuf

Makes one wonder just how many would actually survive being caught out by the increasingly cold winters in their 'electric' cars

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-11976328

http://omnologos.com/climate-change-minister-resigns-because-of-the-extremities-of-the-climate/

Oct 24, 2013 at 12:08 AM | Unregistered CommenterMarion

As mentioned at the Lords Energy Committee, the EU are trying to make life difficult for shale gas:

http://www.euractiv.com/energy/shale-gas-firms-brought-robust-n-news-531191

With ludicrous statements such as:

"The EU’s Joint Research Centre says that shale gas drilling poses ‘high risks’ to the environment and human health, and the International Energy Agency says that even its greenest implementation would raise global temperatures by 3.5 degrees".

They seem to want to hype the methane leakage scare, even though in the references section below there is a link to the US report on 190 sites which shows the average of 0.42% leakage.

http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/09/10/1304880110.full.pdf+html

Prof Robert Howarth of Cornell reply:

http://desmogblog.com/sites/beta.desmogblog.com/files/Howarth%20press%20release%20on%20Allen%20et%20al.%20PNAS.pdf

Which seems to suggest that once the inspectors go away the gas drillers vent the methane (yah boo hiss).

Oct 24, 2013 at 12:23 AM | Unregistered CommenterDaveK

Just to be clear the SNP decarbonisation policy is as ludicrous as that of the other political parties (UKIP excepted) but where we are today it is clear that it is Alex Salmond who is putting in the effort to save Grangemouth and maybe, just maybe, a glimmer of reality is appearing in the SNP attitude to energy. Similarly David "greenest government ever" Cameron is also perhaps beginning to realise that perhaps the green agenda is not quite all that it might at first have seemed; this still leaves Milliband and Clegg very much in the green closet. The simple fact is that if I had wanted Green I would have voted for them; like most other people I didn't. Perhaps we are beginning to see this dawning on some of our politicians.

Oct 24, 2013 at 12:36 AM | Unregistered Commenterguirme

Between Grangemouth, Cameron and Milleband, we are getting a preview of what it will be like soon.

Customers can no longer to afford to buy fossil fuels, energy companies can no longer afford to sell them and refiners can no longer afford to process them.

The peak oilers and their gas equivalents never expected the fossil fuels to run out to the last drop. They expected fuels to become so expensive that nobody could afford them.

I'm not sure anyone expected the UK to get there so soon.

Oct 24, 2013 at 1:16 AM | Unregistered Commenterentropic man

@entropic man

Looky here Y'all now, there has never been so much oil and gas washing round the planet, but especially in the Good Ole US of A. Here in Texas the countryside is alive with rigs, and even gushers, like the good olde days way back when my old grandpappy Jock Ewing made the Family fortune.

The reality is that There is a Vast Glut of Oil, Gas & Coal esopecially in the USA and NoBody does it cheaper. Against this background, of low cost raw materials, and energy prices 50% less than the UK, the US Refineries have stepped up production of Pertochemicals and at Much Cheaper prices than Ineos can do at Grangemouth. It is cheaper to send Naptha, or Ethylene from the USA than produce it in Grangemouth, for instance.

Multiplied by the facts that your Mr. Salmondo and Mr. Milibando has forced Ineos to add 10% Expensive "BioDiesel" to the road fuels, and reduced profitability as a consequence. Not only that but competing so called "Green" energy sources are heavily subsidised, thus reducing profits even further.

None of this really matters to the Chinese who OWN 50% of the Grangemouth Plants already, as a STRATEGIC investment, in "North Britain". Their total investment amounts to scores of Billions, and Ineos "owner" is not really Jim Ratcliffe at all. The Chinese hold the real Ace Cards here, and Ratcliffe is little more than a loudmouthed Debenture Holder, and as my old faithful Scottish "Butler" might say, he is a "Chanty Wrassling Highland Dancer".

Stay out of Texas, Ratcliffe, we don' want you here !

Oct 24, 2013 at 5:40 AM | Unregistered CommenterJ.R. Ewing III

Re: Oct 24, 2013 at 12:36 AM | guirme

Sorry, guirme, but it's quite apparent that Salmond is more than prepared to sacrifice the Scottish economy on the altar of his ambitions to become a "world leader".

"Alex Salmond in his 2010 New Year message highlighted the importance of sustainable development and renewable energy in Scotland and the required increase in powers of the Scottish Parliament needed to help harness Scotland's green energy potential and therefore take full advantage of the "renewable revolution".[39]

Earlier in December 2009, he campaigned for climate change legislation at the UN Climate Change Conference in Copenhagen to promote Scotland's role in tackling and mitigating climate change. This included signing a Partnership Agreement with the Maldives, one of the most exposed countries to the consequences of rising sea levels.[40][41]

Although energy is mostly a matter reserved to Westminster, administrative devolution of Sections 36 & 37 of the Electricity Act (1989) coupled with fully devolved planning powers enabled the Scottish Government to establish Scotland as a leader in renewable energy developments."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Salmond

Notice particularly that line "Alex Salmond in his 2010 New Year message highlighted the importance of sustainable development and renewable energy in Scotland"

You need to do some research and find out what all this "sustainable development" is all about.

But that's only if you're really interested in getting to the truth of course and want to know what the decarbonisation policy is based on.

I'll give you a clue, it's all to do with the UN Agenda 21 on Sustainable Development and E.M Smith [who, as an aside for those who may be interested, did some excellent work on the GHCN and the reduction in data collection http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2009/11/03/ghcn-the-global-analysis/ ] wrote a a very interesting article on his own lightenment regarding the UN Agenda 21 following his research on its appearance in the Climategate emails

It's a long article but well worth reading for those who are interested, as are the comments, quite an eye opener!!!

http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2011/12/18/foia-agenda-21/

And then do some research on just how far down that particular route Scotland has been driven.

Look for example to the Scottish Planning Assessment of Climate Emissions (SPACE) programme.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2012/03/3294/6


Salmond has invested far too much 'political capital' to turn back now.

Oct 24, 2013 at 8:36 AM | Unregistered CommenterMarion

Re: Oct 24, 2013 at 1:16 AM | entropic man

Quite, and nothing to do with a dearth in fossil fuels, which are there for the taking to provide abundant cheap energy. But all to do with government policy!!

Re: Oct 24, 2013 at 5:40 AM | J.R. Ewing III

Agree with much of what you say JR but thought the Chinese holding was 49.9%? (a telling figure don't you think?)

Oct 24, 2013 at 8:42 AM | Unregistered CommenterMarion

Marion (Oct 24, 2013 at 12:08 AM): “Almost complete decarbonisation of road transport by 2050 with significant progress by 2030 through wholesale adoption of electric cars and vans, and significant decarbonisation of rail by 2050.

It truly goes to show just how much in the real word he and his minions and contemporaries around the world are. Does he not know that the modes of transport that he obviously so wants are carbon-rich? Wooded carts are almost 100% carbon. The motive power is, too; as well as emitting huge quantities of carbon, predominantly in that most evil of pollutants, CO2, and its next-in-the-queue, methane, it is also fuelled by exclusively carbon-based products.

The final detachment from reality is that the generator of Salmond’s choice, the wind turbine, is predominantly hydrocarbon based, with the addition of highly-pollutant-in-extraction rare earth metals, built on a foundation that has generated huge quantities of CO2, and destroyed much of the subsoil that Scotland’s precious moors depend upon, and will fail to deliver much of the time. If it wasn’t so infuriating, it would be laughable.

It gets worse! DaveK (Oct 24, 2013 at 12:23 AM): the idea that the drillers want to vent off the gas is utterly insane – that is the gas they are drilling for! Every cc vented off is a cc that cannot be sold; why would anyone think that a business wants to throw money away? Ah. Politicians. As they have no accountability for the money in their grasp, they can fling it about with gay abandon or in petty spite, and cannot conceive that anyone else would want to do otherwise.

Oct 24, 2013 at 10:20 AM | Unregistered CommenterRadical Rodent

Sorry Marion but we are where we are today and as far as I am concerned I will give my backing to whichever politicians , regardless of party, are striving to rescue the situation at Grangemouth. Childish insults such as we see from radical rodent above add nothing to the debate and similarly what Alex Salmond or any other politician said three or four years ago is irrelevant if they do the right thing now and in the future. The reality is that huge numbers of individuals who believed the global warming message a few years ago have come to realise that they were being sold a lie; it is not surprising if some politicians are beginning to edge away from their slavish adherence to the green agenda - we are seeing this from David Cameron also. The reality is that Alex Salmond is a very pragmatic politician and I think that his message is changing and that is to be welcomed. I believe that Climate Change Ed will also have to tone down his green beliefs if he hopes to win the next election; as for Clegg he is a hopeless case completely thirled to the green agenda.

Oct 24, 2013 at 10:27 AM | Unregistered CommenterGuirme

Guirme (Oct 24, 2013 at 10:27 AM): you are obviously of more noble intent than I, and I cede to you on that. It might be you are a lot younger than I, and more naïve or it could be that I am getting way too cynical as old age creeps ever closer. I will hold comment on Salmond while the Grangemouth fiasco continues. Which of us is going to be chanting, “I told you so!” I wonder?

Oct 24, 2013 at 10:45 AM | Unregistered CommenterRadical Rodent

Re: Oct 24, 2013 at 10:27 AM | Guirme

Ah, but Guirme, I tend to judge politicians on their past performance rather than on any promises they make of what the future holds. I would be interested in any links to the evidence that Salmond will rescue the situation at Grangemouth. The plant appears to be losing £10m a month thanks in no small measure to the policies promoted by his government. Or will the taxpayer be asked yet again to foot the bill?

As for your accusation of "childish insults such as we see from radical rodent above", on the contrary I see some very pertinent points that require response other than simply attaching the epithet 'childish insults'. I would be interested to see what yours would be, something of substance rather than simple optimism in a politician's intentions.

At one time I had some regard for Salmond, he was after all one of the few that called for the impeachment of Tony Blair, but now no longer, his policies are ensuring the impoverishment of the Scottish people.

Oct 24, 2013 at 10:59 AM | Unregistered CommenterMarion

(Dang, Marion! Why couldn't I think of that argument?)

Oct 24, 2013 at 1:03 PM | Unregistered CommenterRadical Rodent

Seems that the Scots also have growing concerns about the risk of winter related problems. Voice of Russia article reviewed at "No Trick Zone". http://notrickszone.com/2013/10/22/viner-warming-fears-disappearing-scots-now-fear-brutal-ice-age-like-winter-conditions-more-than-terrorism/

Extract from VoR.

"Scottish in fear of bad weather more than terrorism – research

Nearly half of Scottish people are afraid of being clobbered by an "extreme weather" emergency this winter season and some even feel it is a bigger worry than terrorism, according to research. Concern has been mounting over power and water cuts, and Scots are in fear of being stuck in vehicles or trains in blizzard-like conditions. The numbers from the research came out yesterday as the Scottish Government has started its campaign on winter readiness.

Extreme weather emergencies are of grand concern for 49 percent of Scots. Last year it was just 38 percent according to a poll done by TNS BMRB, made for the Red Cross and the Scottish Government. Power, fuel, and water shortages are still areas of popular concern with 46 percent of citizens showing anxiety over these resources. Though, terrorism worries just 31 percent of participants. Major transport accidents are also just at a 27 percent level of concern.

Still, there is a rise in public readiness for extreme weather, 44 percent this year as opposed to 39 percent in 2012. "Severe weather can strike quickly and at any time of year. In March, we saw the impact of severe snowstorms on communities in Arran, Kintyre and Dumfries and Galloway," Transport minister Keith Brown said and added, "So whether it is making your home energy efficient, protecting your pipes, packing an emergency kit for the car or looking out for vulnerable neighbors, we can all play our part in helping Scotland get ready for winter.""

http://voiceofrussia.com/2013_10_22/Scottish-in-fear-of-bad-weather-more-than-terrorism-research-7124/

Oct 24, 2013 at 2:53 PM | Unregistered CommenterMick J

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