Sunday
Mar062011
by 
Bishop Hill
Bishop Hill Josh 83
Josh writes: "her actual quote was 'If we are to overcome the climate crisis we must move on to the equivalent of a war footing' and she then likened the leadership this would require to Tony Blair's in taking us to war in Iraq"
Reader Comments (57)
Not in my name!
We already have the "Dodgy Dossiers" - the IPCC reports.
This is a very welcome move in the right direction, in my opinion.
Keep up the good work Caro.
BH - now on router re-boot #8
Josh/Bish
Love your work, but anything that contains the words "likened the leadership this would require to Tony Blair's" is not acceptable at anytime but especially not on a Sunday afternoon, when digestion is the prime objective.
Green Sand, apologies... we can amend..
..to?
Daft Bat!
Josh
Can't find the relevant quote in the ST (which I've only flicked through so far today). Can you point me at it?
Thanks
Dominic
BBD
I believe it's in the magazine
This is the same Lucas that said, on winning her seat, that she was glad that the politics of hope had triumphed over the politics of fear. So telling us that we have to get onto a war footing isn't the politics of fear? Or did I miss something?
BH - thanks.
From the manifesto: "In the 1930s, some politicians of all parties ignored the threat of war brewing in Europe and failed to take the steps to deter aggression or prepare early enough to defend ourselves. At the time, the two main excuses put forward to justify inaction and appeasement were that there was not enough money to pay for proper defences, and that the British public would not support a government that took tough measures.
Yet by the end of the 1930s, public opinion was far ahead of Chamberlain’s government in demanding tough measures, and the costs of the war itself ultimately far outweighed the costs of the measures that might have prevented it."
Sounds rather familiar, actually. How much were the costs considered, and what was the likelihood it would actually have prevented German expansion? No values presented. Do you really think that Germany would have been cowed by a more well-armed British Army?
In the current circumstances, what costs and what benefits? Well, in this case we can estimate the costs of the rapid decarbonisation proposed. [If done properly, without all this windmill malarkey.] Benefits, not readily quantifiable. In my opinion, likely fairly small. Adaptation to change will always be necessary; adaptation to slightly warmer weather may not even be more than "normal," whatever that is.
I love the fact that a failed social worker like Lucas thinks she is the 'war' leader to lead the fight.
Appleyard is clearly staggered. The Greens are, he says, shooting themselves in both feet prior to standing on a rake.
What an extraordinarily stupid – really stupid - thing for Lucas to say.
BBD Here is a clipping of the whole section.
http://www.cartoonsbyjosh.com/carolinelucasclipping.jpg
The whole article by Bryan Appleyard is quite thoughtful - worth reading.
Josh
Thanks - got the actual article in front of me now, although too busy trying to work out why I am constantly unable to post comments here. Will read properly asap.
FWIW, I think you were too kind ;-)
Appleyard:
Fine word, 'egregious'.
It is ironic that Caroline Lucas chooses to use this analogy when there is an uncanny similarity between the 'war' on climate change and that in Iraq. Both were justified on the basis of dodgy peer-collaborated evidence.
But at least it isn't as extreme as her statement in 2009 when she stated that, "Flying to the Costas each summer is the equivalent of knife crime" (Christopher Booker: The Real Global Warming Disaster).
BH
[OT and FYI - re 'connection reset' error in FF.
Deleting the cookies stored in 'bishophill.squarespace.com' does not cure the problem.
Rebooting the router gets me back into comments, but only briefly, then I get locked out again.
So unless there are other cookies lurking somewhere else, I don't think the problem lies here.]
BBD
Two possibilities may be worth looking at:
1. What about cookies from bishop-hill.net?
2. I've emailed you about setting up a user account for the system.
If you could try (1) before (2) that would be helpful.
BH
Thanks - I thought of the possible conflict with old stuff from BH.net and deleted the directory a while ago.
Will try to set up new account now.
BBD
Just so we're clear, the old stuff is bishophill.squarespace.com, right?
BH
Sorry, not clear above - both BH.net and BH.squarespace.com cookies were removed, and the system allowed to re-populate from scratch.
I do not think the comparison Lucas made was to Iraq but to WWII.
http://www.greenparty.org.uk/assets/files/reports/the_new_home_front_FINAL.pdf
BBD has the user account made any difference?
Mike
Yes, seen that, but now it's Iraq. See above at 6:26pm and 6:41pm...
BH
NO
I just got locked out again.
BBD: Thanks! But she is clearly critical of Blair's decision to invade Iraq. Hence Josh has distorted the context. This is dishonest.
Mike
I'm sorry, we appear to be reading different texts. Perhaps you could point to where CL is critical of TB's decision to invade Iraq?
Appleyard's article is not too bad, for a warmist-leaning journo, although it launches in with innuendo that sceptical spokespeople are mostly wacko nutters with dodgy science (Monckton and Piers Corbyn), mainly on the say-so of 'one of our most distinguished climate scientists', Prof Chris Rapley.
Presumably most distinguished includes Prof Ripley's involvement with facilitating Al Gore and Live Earth with a pop band in Antarctica, the science museum's spectacularly backfiring Prove It pre-Copenhagen public poll campaign, and support for the Age of Stupid by Franny Armstrong, as well as describing global population control as "at the root of the environmental crisis, according to this Guardian profile et seq.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/aug/31/uknews
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0910/09102002
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/earthnews/6425738/Science-Museums-climate-change-poll-backfires.html
So, where's Eric, the Poley bear? Or does he wear a bobble hat now? :)
typical greenie hogwash, glad to see the Irish Green Party were decimated at the polls hopefully Lucas will follow before they lead this country to ruin.
Mike, I am sure Caroline is and certainly was critical of Tony Blair. I expect most of us here would be too. But Bryan Appleyard was stunned by her use of the analogy, as am I, and I expect most of her own party. Thus the cartoon.
The comparison is exact. Extreme and unpopular - not to say entirely unnecessary - measures demanded in support of the political ambitions of a few weirdos, justified and sold to the public on the back of faked 'science' cooked up as part of a conspiracy.
And a question I'd like someone to put to Ms Lucas is 'you have no medical qualifications and nor are you involved in academia. Why, then, do you style yourself 'Dr' when all you have is a PhD in Elizabethan poetry?'
Phil D
I know what you are saying, but technically CL's PhD entitles her to the 'Dr' suffix.
Mike
Perhaps an apology for calling Josh dishonest would be appropriate.
Harry 1 says
Irish Green Party were decimated at the polls hopefully Lucas will follow before they lead this country to ruin.
Decimated means 1/10th.
Annihilation means what it says. Sorry to be picky Harry 1 but British people NEVER get this right.
Don Pablo and his community know the correct meaning!
Anyway, we annihilated the Greens both in local and national elections. But don't forget what Gerry Adams said about the IRA..they haven't gone away you know. This applies to the Greens here so we have to be on our guard against them.
Anyway, I hate these Trotskyite Greens. They stand for higher taxes, destroying the industrial economy and letting you have leccy when the wind blows. (Leccy, refer Coronation Street).
The leader of the Greens said during the election that he wanted Ireland to have to rely on wind and wave power by 2030 and to get rid of oil.
I wouldn't want to have to rely on wind power in a December like last year. Most of December we had an area of high pressure over Ireland and temperatures below zero for a lot of the month. Because of the high barometric pressure we had practically no wind! No wind, no leccy, we freeze but bet you a quid the greenies would be safe in their superheated offices in front of a nice coal fire. Reminds me of a certain group of PIGS who took over Manor Farm...!
I HATE GREENIES
Since there were previously only six Green Party TDs, it was impossible for them to be decimated.
testing comments
Looks as though the LSE is going to be needing Russell and Oxburgh for some independent reviews vis a vis their academic copy and paste standards. What will Bob Ward say?
Lucas is incredibly smug and self satisfied, like most politicians.. I went off her in the early 2000s when she started spouting some incredible rubbish about about depleted uranium use and the war in Iraq based purely on her own feelings and no science.
Dave. You say you were into her before you went off her?!! And are you actually saying there was no use of DU weapons in iraq? If you wanna criticise please make sense or we lose credibility as fast as we try to grab it
Hasn't anybody noticed a similarity between 9/11 and the current Libya/oil "crisis"? Within hours of 9/11, airlines were making thousands redundant on the back of the reduction in air travel (the downsizing equivalent of it being a good day to bury bad news). In the latest excuse for action, Chris Huhne is suggesting we get used to doing without oil, and quick. Opportunistic springs to mind.
Related...
Independent: World's sixth mass extinction may be underway - study
The authors admitted to weaknesses in the study. And it is full of "assumptions", but why let that get in the way of a good fear story...
Hmmm... I will be polite on a Monday morning... seems to be a developing theme...
On the Kate Middleton radio program on Radio Five, someone eco-greenie (god knows who) was saying that there is every chance we will not be here in 100 years due to climate change. It was in response to to a discussion question relating to funding space programs. Totally unchallenged.
I think people can see the parallels with historic fundamental religion...
Heaven and hell...
Repent...
Fight the good fight...
Holy crusade...
And eye for an eye...
The righteous and the sinners...
Science is just like the bible, a tool to convince the masses...
I wish someone would turn her in to biomass.
Here is another cracker from CL at Westminster Hall, 18 November 2010 just a few days before Cancun:
"I will end by reflecting on political will. I am haunted by the words of the actor Pete Postlethwaite in the film "The Age of Stupid". For those Members who have not seen it, the film is based on the assumption that some kind of climate catastrophe has occurred 50 years hence and that Pete Postlethwaite's character is the sole survivor. He looks back to today and asks, "Why is it that, knowing what we knew then, we didn't act while there was still time?"
Those words haunt me, because we have the information, technology and, frankly, the money that we need to act. When it came to bailing out banks, we found billions in a few days. If the planet were a bank, it would have been sorted out a long time ago".
To use a WWII analogy; the Greens are 21st century neofascists.
Building windmills and carbon taxes are the equivalent of 1930s appeasment that harms everyone but the rentiers.
How can the general public defend itself against the malevolence of the environmentalists?
"When it came to bailing out banks, we found billions in a few days."
that just shows you how clueless Caroline Lucas is; billions were not found in a few days. Brown flew to the Saudis who declined what ever he offered in exchange for the loan. He then hastily arranged a meeting with the Chinese. Shortly after the meeting the UK issued a new statement of our position on Tibet. To my knowledge this sell out was not reported on the BBC, the only coverage of it was on Channel 4 news.
Josh's cartoon has encapsulated Ms Lucas' daftness with delicious accuracy. She seems to be hankering for the 'luvverly' WWII era in which civilians were bombed out of their houses, rationing was in force and privation was the order of the day. Her own priveleged upbringing in a warm and comfy home made possible by her successful industrialist father, her private schooling and her Phud in Elizabethan poetry must all have preyed on her mind to the extent that she has a massive guilt complex and wants to relive those wonderful bygone war-time and post-war days. I remember post-war rationing as a small boy; the women in my family (the men were all at the war) didn't seem to enjoy it all that much and the ones that survive still have a negative view of slogging to grow vege, milking cows, making butter, knitting from unpicked garments, etc. Her little rant is illuminating as to how the Greens see our future! It gives an accurate view of the Greens' definition of 'progressive' - everyone, in their view, must progress backward to WWII at least.