To return to the subject of police firearms. The current firearms officer armed with a Glok 17 in a strapped down holster is like something out of the wild west, however it is probably appropriate for them what I advocate for a P.C. or D.C. on the beat is a concealed weapon such as a PPK in .38 calibre.

http://www.waltherarms.com/handguns/ppk/ppk-ppks/

I remember in my youth that the police had a special pocket for the truncheon keeping it totally concealed.

This looks like an interesting development, especially if adopted by India and China.

http://www.thegwpf.com/new-coal-revolution-may-change-everything/

Re arming all police; The bottom line is that if police on the spot had been armed with side arms, in two of the recent incidents lives would have been saved and they would have had effective means to protect themselves. With regard to N.I. I was referring to the current situation not the past; N.I. police are still armed.

I don't think anyone here disagrees with the idea that pepper spray is probably a legitimate way to protect the public, with the proviso that if someone gets hurt without a good reason (eg a child plays with it), the owner should be punished. Tazers are in a more dubious.

If we want protection from all criminals we need some new directions. The first would be to build a new style of prison, so we can afford to put away people we already know should be behind bars and for a real term. We need a 21st century look at solitary confinement. Cells don't need to be inhumane. They should have all the essentials for healthy living, from running belt to UV lighting. Music and educational programmes on a screen during the day. Gentle entertainment in the evening. Strictly limited skype access to family and friends. Healthy but boring meals delivered. No prisoner riots. No bullying and abuse. No drugs (other than a rapid withdrawal). No luxuries. No university of crime. No jihadi recruitment. Deliberately damage your cell and you get a longer sentence.

TinyCO2

I know from people living in London, Liverpool and Manchester that handguns are not exactly uncommon. Woundings from settling squabbles and turf wars between gangs seems to be being suppressed and it's usually only the fatalities that get reported.

I very much doubt that jihadis would attempt to source firearms (and worse) from the UK criminal community. The most likely route would be from their chums in the Balkans who have plenty. Given what I have personally seen at Coquelles EuroTunnel terminal where battered vans with nervy, dodgy swarthy types seemed to get waved though while coachloads of British OAPs get lined up to have their legitimately purchase Belgian baccy confiscated - a Mumbai style atrocity must be a possibility....

I revisited the Swiss gun laws and was surprised to see that excluding the military requirements gun ownership is a lot lower than the USA... and also that most gun owners in the Czech Republic have concealed weapons permits... It's Wikipedia ... = some of the arithmetic looks very wonky.

Putting firearms into the hands of any/everybody is obviously *not* a sensible thing to do - I have no problem though with pepper spray. There is a balance to be had and the UK has I think to adjust the rules about non-lethal weapons. There are - sadly - in my view, serious doubts about the competence of our police forces at a command level (kudos to the bobby that tackled the London nutters with a baton)

Re: The "crossfire" wounding in London.

I suspect - but don't know for sure that the bystander was hit by a piece of a bullet rather than "a bullet" - the nature of the ammunition usually(?) used by police makes this the most likely scenario with a frangible round shard flying off out of the target - a full round shot to the head from most of the weapons I've seen being carried around would be terminal.... That said - gunshots are not as tidy as in the movies.

As for May's control/censor the internet - utter bollocks. No internet when ira & inla were murdering daily.

Jun 6, 2017 at 10:57 PM | Pcar

Yes, but ...
Methods of killing, creating terror and communicating about it, have advanced with the available technology. Ironically, Islamic terrorists use upto date "Developed World" methods of communication, but have recently employed very antiquated methods of killing, to avoid detection by modern technology.

Meanwhile, Climate Science may have to remember how they decided CO2 was the Planet's temperature control knob

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/06/06/epas-pruitt-establish-red-team-blue-team-of-scientists-to-examine-climate-risk-of-co2/

Interviewed by Breitbart’s Joel Pollak, EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt says the American people deserve ‘a true legitimate, peer reviewed, objective, transparent discussion about CO2.’ Pruitt calls for the establishment of a ‘Red Team/Blue Team’ of scientist to examine ‘what do we know, what don’t we know, and what risk does it pose to health, the United States, and the world’.

What happens if Mann is summoned to give evidence by both Defence and Prosecution? Will he plead the Fifth Amendment for fear of incriminating himself?

Mailman, how would you determine who is a good guy, and allowed to carry a gun, and who is a bad guy, and not allowed to carry a gun?

The US "Right to Bear Arms" lobby, seems to guarantee the right of any person in the US to be shot by anyone else. A gun ban in the USA would be pointless, there are too many legally obtained weapons already in circulation

tomo makes the point about gun crime in Liverpool and London. He could have mentioned other areas as well. I do not have access to figures, but what percentage of those gun crimes (including the murder of completely innocent bystanders) result from wars between drug gangs, who know how to smuggle illegal goods into the UK?

I am pleased to hear that May wants a review of Human Rights Legislation. Human Rights Legislation has become the first line of defence for criminals and terrorists all over the EU. The "refugee crisis" (due to Wars caused by Global Warming - see BBC and The Guardian for more propaganda) has provided Islamic extremists with Free Travel Warrants, and choice of Nationality within the EU.

Historically, terrorists have favoured soft targets, so they could kill, and not be killed. Kamikaze terrorists pose a whole new threat. If vigilantes are shooting and killing each other, minutes/hours/days/months/years after the death of a terrorist, out of fear and panic, who has won?

I think you've missed my point like the government seems to miss all these jihadis hiding in plane site by appearing on documentaries with jihadi in its title.

All I want is the right to protect myself and NOT be a sheep led to the slaughter.

Although interesting point you do raise about being armed as at the moment the only people who seem to be armed are criminals.

Mailman

Jun 6, 2017 at 6:07 PM | Mailman

How would you like to see a "UK Right to Bear Arms" work, so that only good guys got guns, and only bad guys got shot?

If I was living/working in an area of the world where gun carrying, crime and shootings were likely, I would want to carry a sidearm and have access to other weapons as appropriate. I am not anti gun lobby. I am not pro gun lobby. I have received weapons training on UK military ranges. I have never carried or fired a sidearm or rifle away from a military range.

I remain very grateful that armed Police shot dead 3 bad guys and fired 50? rounds in total. One bystander was hit.

Numbers approximate but:
If the Police Officer each fired a burst of 3 rounds, (Heckler Koch?) every time they decided to fire, that is 17 bursts, or 6 per bad guy. If each Bad Guy was corned by 3 Officers, each one only fired 2 bursts. The 50 rounds figure does not equate to a Bonnie and Clyde style massacre. Well done to the Officers involved, my best wishes to the innocent bystander.