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Discussion > Drs against Diesel : A subsidy mafia Front

As ever the Times #DieselsRPaedos campign will run with any vague evidence
Today pg 24 narrative must improve pollution cos Lung disease deaths are 1/3 higher in UK than in other countries
..em since UK is LESS polluted than many countries it seems a non sequitur.

Contradictory stats quoted
since 1980s rate for women has been static 68/100,000 (must be per year, they don't say)
For men fell 153 to 93 /100,000
..say that's 1 in 1,000
The page ends "Lung cancer kills 36,000 /year" well 36 million people don't die per year
So there is something wrong with their stats

Lets say their 100,000 stats are over 50 years ie 100 out of 100,000 living people die from lung cancer EACH YEAR over 50 years
ie in 50 years you get 5,000 dead in 100,000 ie 5% of people die from lung cancer
So in a given year when 36K die from it, then 684, 000 die from other stuff

Tat sounds more plausible but shows even if you eliminate lung cancer, other deaths are 20 times more

Dec 8, 2017 at 4:29 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Steve Milloy wrote the book "Pollution Scare"
I see he has a blogpost debunking another report about alleged harm of PM2.5

Dec 26, 2017 at 9:30 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

The Times runs the DieselsR paedos campaign and also plugs electric vehicles
In a Nov 27th article it claimed
"Some premium cars offer larger batteries that can go over 300 miles"
... Sounds like tosh no typical model gets anything like that
...maybe some milkcart buggy might, but I doubt it

Dec 26, 2017 at 10:32 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Looks like some PR folks & Labour Party people have cobbled together 3 different reports to make a propaganda piece that the Times + The Standard have copyNpasted
#GreenBlob #SubsidyMafia
#ThinkOfTheChildren emotional blackmail

Local Authority they live in sometimes breached pollution limits
- "61% if children have been exposed to illegal levels"
Fallacy : non-sequitur, cos kids could be 50 miles from those incidents.

Dec 27, 2017 at 3:11 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Interesting article from American magazine The Engineer
their poll says people prefer incentives to make diesels cleaner..rather than ban and go electric

Dec 29, 2017 at 7:48 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

@BBCPM Does @nigelhavers1000 and anyone in Westminster know that
.... all of the buses in the Midlands automatically cut their engines whenever they stop? #inyourbubble

Dec 29, 2017 at 8:31 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Times : Jan 8th : War on diesel is killing sales, says Jaguar>
"The impact on Jaguar Land Rover has been as stark.
In the last three months of 2017, Jaguar sales in the UK slumped 22 per cent.
The vast majority of its cars for the UK come with a diesel engine manufactured at its state-of the-art Wolverhampton factory built four years ago with taxpayer funding
80% of JLRs are exported
The boss said "Diesel is saving CO2"
And note he wasn't pushing the Electric Car dream like other people are.

Jan 10, 2018 at 1:23 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

More than half back charges in clean air zones
Yorkshire Post-7 Jan 2018
\\ClientEarth launched a new legal fight with the Government in October over what it said was a “stubborn failure” to tackle illegal air pollution since the rules were introduced in 2010.
Last month The Yorkshire Post revealed the region is one of the worst in the country for illegal levels of pollutants, putting//
Obvious cutnpaste article from Client Earth PR stuff
..Their half of people surveyed is is 52% ... that is hardly a ringing endorsement
The other 48% aren't willing to pay.

The item appeared across most newspapers etc.

Jan 10, 2018 at 1:34 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Our Air quality activist mates have got a PR coup tonight, a prog on BBC2
Fighting for Air BBC Two, 9.00pm
"Campaigning doctor and inescapable TV face Xand van Tulleken (never heard of him) examines the grim effects of air pollution on the body,
before travelling to Birmingham to bring clean air to one high street using a combination of technological expertise and community goodwill. "
- The TV co organising the meeting
- Long, long article in the Birmingham Mail
- Drama Queening photo
Imagine if you could change the quality of the air we breathe - in just one day.
Air pollution in the UK has been declared a 'public health emergency'
(not really true, the EU limits are so low now that most countries have some streets that break them)

and Dr Xand van Tulleken is seeing what can be done about it.
Enlisting the help of enthusiasts and sceptics (really ? or fake-skeptics ?) from the Kings Heath community in Birmingham,
Xand stages the first ever large-scale experiment of its kind - using people power to try and bring about a quantifiable improvement in air quality for a single day.
(I think you'll find that experiment happens every Sunday morning and Christmas day)

With the pollution levels on the high street at the cusp of legal limits (cos the EU sets low limits)
, the odds are stacked against Xand and his team. (don't be daft)

Can they achieve the improbable?
Can the power of communities - with the help of some ingenious tech and some of the best experts in pollution science - succeed where governments have failed?
(Governments have not failed 95% of UK roads would be within the EU limits anyway)

Xand also becomes a case study in his own experiment.
As he carefully tries to rid his body of the effects of pollution,
he measures how his body functions are affected after exposing himself to a typical city street.
The results are shocking.
(that doesn't very scientific to me ..yes you could probably wear a white dusk mask and see how the inside has some black particle son etc., but that doesn't mean you are necessarily being harmed...cos your body is "built" to be able to withstand nature like dust and pollen etc.)

Jan 10, 2018 at 2:04 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

as per unthreaded

Not unreasonable to presume that this confluence of public health, environmentalism and the BBC had a contribution from the BBC's Environment Analyst eh? Given his "pan-BBC remit" ....

On returning to the BBC he led pan-BBC reporting on a public survey which suggested that people in the UK were much more ready to accept tougher measures on smoking, drinking and obesity than previously believed. Public health has since risen up the agenda in the UK for government and media.

Jan 10, 2018 at 2:56 PM | Registered Commentertomo

OK I've got some stuff to catch up on
Last week the Times PaedosRdiesels PR writers got back from their holidays and continued their almost daily articles

- Airbubbl a device that sits behind the headrest
and traps NOx in a nano-filter
(Yeh right, another magic solution that doesn't seem to have any proper test results)

- A device That tracks your ;pollution as you drive
(reading it , it seems rather it rather it estimates the pollution from mapping data map database)

Jan 11, 2018 at 11:30 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

London pollution : I just happened to notice the other day that the volume of Thames river buses has greatly increased

Are they electric
these catamarans seem to have great big diesel engines with 4000l tanks

Jan 11, 2018 at 11:33 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

I wonder if Drs against Disel have rebbranded ?
Times : Members of Stop Killing Londoners have already held “road block discos”

\\ In the early morning rush-hour on the Monday before Christmas, air pollution campaigners from ‘Stop Killing Londoners’ staged a series of short roadblocks at exits from the main arterial Chiswick roundabout in south west London. Despite the brevity of the actions, traffic soon tailed back.//

Actually seems they started in July 2017

Jan 11, 2018 at 11:38 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen


I'm pretty sure that there isn't a marine LEZ with ANPR and fines operating on the Thames ... :-)

I wondered if those yellow tourist DUKWs are classified as boats or buses for the purpose of LEZ? - uh... they're exempt

That said there's a few catamarans that have badly adjusted fuel systems that belch large, obvious black clouds as they pull away from jetties.

Jan 12, 2018 at 2:54 AM | Registered Commentertomo

Trucks cheating
Reasonable sample size of 4K, 7.8% found to have cheat devices which satisfy the engine management system that the engine is within emission standards. Claimed that sometimes an emulator device.
- That's similar to car drivers removing the DPF.

Hmm .. a new engine should run clean, but for older ones the designers have been pushed beyond the technical abilities.

Jan 12, 2018 at 3:59 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Possibly massive switch to methane powered trucks coming down the chute - Waitrose ahead of the crew....

Jan 12, 2018 at 4:53 PM | Registered Commentertomo

Transport and Environment have a significant presence in the present air quality campaign relating to transport.

Established in 1990, Transport & Environment (T&E) is Europe's leading NGO campaigning for cleaner, safer transport. Our job is to research, debate and campaign with the facts available. Our goal is simple but hard: to minimise transport’s harmful impacts on the environment and health, while maximising efficiency of resources, including energy and land, without forgetting to guarantee safety and sufficient access for all.

But it's actually the usual self serving collection of Green Blobbers bullshitting away merrily for fat salaries..

They've just come out with this which is full of BS that only eco activist eejits would think convincing.

And look at who's paying for their antics

Jan 13, 2018 at 11:09 AM | Registered Commentertomo

Yes with so many BS article being pushed one scenario is that it is being organised by NGO's and paid for by agenda-ists
..the direct funders of that org you mention @Tomo appear to Climate Alarmist based and European government transport ministries
- Another scenario is that journos are a bit wacky

Here's a Yorkshire Post article
Are diesel cars facing their last gasp? Thursday 11 January 2018
"Diesel car sales have slumped in the face of growing environmental concerns.
But what impact will this have and what does it mean for drivers, asks Chris Bond."

But then straight away he confuses Driverless Cars with the idea of Electric Cars
We know Driverless cars could well be diesel, but the writer says "Jaguar Land Rover has already been testing driverless cars on public road"

So ? I just mentioned a few posts above the JLR chairman spoke up against the demonisation of diesel

The article is not long ..seems it's main use is to support the BMW electric car advert, that sits either side of it.

Jan 13, 2018 at 9:25 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Jan 15, 2018 at 12:41 PM | Unregistered Commenternot banned yet

If London is so polluted then why do posh people like all those rooftop and outside bars like at House of Commons

Jan 16, 2018 at 5:01 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

You need to cut down on your smoking - your log-burner smoking, that is
- @drmarkporter more
Mentions VOC air fresheners and log burning
Quotes 100K/Yr/across Europe stat ... Flakey ?

Jan 16, 2018 at 5:12 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Y Post : Big article about York's plan for CAZ : Clean Air Zone ..focussing on electric buses. the existing ones don't work so well.
The gov gave them £3m to buy 11.

..and Nestlé have been good about closing York's factories.

Leeds also thinking of CAZ

Jan 19, 2018 at 3:46 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

More tiresome "reality checking" from the BBC

Theo Legget from the business team goes off reality checking diesel emissions.... except that he doesn't really

Article is full of "potential effects" and the usual lexicon of loaded language and the obligatory photo of obvious kerrapp coming out of a car exhaust tailpipe.

One very obvious observation that isn't addressed at all is that some (unnamed) manufacturers have some models that perform very well consistently and other manufacturers are all over the shop - surely that's a strong hint that more investigation is required - but as usual - facts and a path to a better environment isn't what the BBC are about at all.

Jan 21, 2018 at 6:49 PM | Registered Commentertomo

BBCTrustMe prog's dodgy science
The big air pollution experiment

This observational study is encouraging planting of silver birch
Unintended consequence = increase in birch pollen = increase allergy hay fever and asthma
...Better low allergy trees available ask RHS

Jan 27, 2018 at 5:42 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

@not banned yet that Jan 15, 2018 at 12:41 PM
That E Standard article is a bit flaky
'Oh NOx is down it could be eco engines, oh it could be the weather '
Not full of robust science

The mayor said in December that the Putney route, which was the first to get the new buses in March, had seen a 90 per cent reduction in hourly breaches of toxic air levels.
- Professor Kelly added that the capital has seen a “pretty clean” start to 2018 generally, in terms of pollution levels, which he said is reflected in NO2 data for this year.
- ... Professor Kelly said the weather has also proved to be a contributing factor to lower levels of toxic air

Jan 29, 2018 at 3:54 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen