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Discussion > Drs against Diesel : A subsidy mafia Front

11am Radio5 "tens of thousands of diesel cars/vans are driving around with their diesel particulate filter DPF taken out"
Garages know a way of legally removing the inside and rewelding the cover shut, so it's not detected in the MOT.
- Well there must be 10m+ diesel cars/vans so the problem is only 1-2 in a thousand.
- The MOT is changing in May.
Hmm in the London Czone let's say there are 2,000 diesels and Sadiq removes 200
So maybe there are 10 unfiltered diesels remaining which push out the same dirt as those 200.

The issue with DPF is they clog up if you only do short journeys so reducing car performance
Motorway run regenerates them
But removing them means you don't have to bother.
If you left it ..a clean up could cost £100+
If it breaks a replacement could cost £1000+

Oct 29, 2017 at 8:57 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

DrJonathanGrigg new Twitter feed is churning out propaganda
..including the misleading death stats

I expected to find direct connections to :
: Sadiqs political campaigning
: Electric Vehicle subsidy mafia
: Big Green hedgefunds

But I haven't found yet

Oct 29, 2017 at 9:14 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

BBC DPF story
One guy on Twitter says for his VW since the fix his DPF has been getting clogged up.

Oct 29, 2017 at 12:21 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

My Dad points out that MOT emissions test should pick up missing DPF
so BBC dramaqueening
Their page says "current emission tests do not ALWAYS detect it"
ie mostly they DO

Oct 29, 2017 at 1:44 PM | Unregistered Commenterstewgreen

Don't know if this has been posted before, but it's a must watch. Steve Milloy talking about the EPA particulate experiments which appear to violate just about every reasonable standard of science, medicine and law. Some of it is so appalling it had me almost crying with laughter.

Oct 30, 2017 at 12:05 AM | Unregistered Commentermichael hart

Sunday Radio 5 had a prog on Diesel Particulate Filters being removed and being undetected by MOT
( it is a known problem and the gov is already rolling out a plan with the MOT rules set to change in May 2018)
It was full of Guardian-like sloppiness : Labour Party PR, emotional blackmail, and anecdotal hysteria against diesels.
(My post at the top of the page explains why DPF's get removed)

Prog opened with presenter saying
"problem that already costs 40,000 lives per year"
Next said : "40,000 lives are cut short every year"
- They contradict and are both WRONG

Labour MP Mary Cray came on repeated the 40K statement
"Villages effected as well" ..wrong to imply that diesel effects villages
.... Particulates can happen in villages, but due to agriculture.
"Lung capacity unborn babies"
... Big claim that Google provides no evidence for.

Labour Transport guy Andy MacDonald came on to beg for law changes right now about DPF's
That's strange to me cos with it's May 2018 plan the government does seem to have the issue in hand. I don't see that proper procedures could be brought in much quicker ..cos when you rush , things get screwed up.

The third Labour Party spokesman in this 45 minute segment was
when PR statement from Sadiq Khan was read out.
Then Sadiq's initiative of Air Marshalls who patrol streets asking drivers to turn off their engines was given a long segment

Then Prof Frank Kelly ...he wasn't terrible
There are "29,000 deaths from pm2.5"
... He's wrong to fail to fail to say that these are equivalent theoretical rather than actual deaths.
And the stat is definitely sus
Presenter jumped to conclusion that 29K fig is all attributable diesel

The word "Deadly" was used a lot
That is wrong cos normal pollution isn't deadly doesn't CAUSE death like some chemicals do, rather it reduces lifespan by days.

Perspective of the DPF problem : A report was produced saying that 1,800 vehicles with removed DPF's had been found to have slipped through the MOT procedure ..This then led to them extrapolating to say tens of thousand of such vehicles must be on the road.
The prog made a big issue that although it's illegal for you to own a car with no DPF, it's not illegal for a garage to remove it, so a lot of garages advertise this fix for a car which has a problem with its DPF
Each unfiltered car produces 20 times the particulates of a proper car.
To me that would be a clear target instead of congestion zones
eg The London T-charge might reduce the number of diesels in a zone from 1,000 per day by 200, but if 10 of the remaining 800 are running without DPF then you'd be back up to equivalent particulates of 1000 vehicles.
The vehicles are easy to spot cos they emit black smoke, so is there any reason to wait for big law changes ?
Theoretically a cop could spot it and say that since the vehicle appears to have no DPF it's breaking the law and has to be tested.
OK cops have no time, but Sadiq's air marshalls could be given portable kits, and then call cops to get vehicles seized.
Special units already set up checks on motorways to inspect truck engines and it wouldn't be a big step for them to include obvious black smoke cars in that.

Emotional blackmail
Mother of dead Child living close South Circular blames diesel
..I looked it up
"Rosamund Kissi-Debrah a #cleanair campaigner, following the death of her daughter Ella"
\\An inquest into the “healthy” Holbeach primary pupil’s death found she had died from acute respiratory failure but did not establish the cause of her asthma.//
To me it's very possible that had the same child lived in the countryside she would still have died. It was something about the child that caused the death, otherwise all kids living in London would be dead.
The comments in the newspaper are skeptical also

At one point "In UK 3/4 of air monitoring stations are above UK EU guidelines"
That's meaningless cos you don't put monitors in areas where the pollution seems OK

The prog ended with a load of anecdotes from listeners.
Having that as the "take away", instead of proper science is bad.

eg1 Bronchiolitis patient said "all diesel cars should be banned"
... Well the mechanism by which people suffer is complex
A combination of weak genetics, poor medical treatment. Person X might think getting rid of diesel might be a magic solution, but it's entirely possible it makes no ifference.

eg2 Cyclist said he thinks he got motor neurone disease from frequent cycling in pollution.
.... Again this is jus empty speculation.

Nov 3, 2017 at 12:14 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Dear victim,

The recently launched T-Charge is the first step in delivering the Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ), which will help clean up London’s dangerously polluted air.

However we need to do more to address London’s poor air pollution, so early this year, we asked for views on the Mayor, Sadiq Khan’s proposal to bring forward the start date of the ULEZ from September 2020 to April 2019. Of the responses we received, 63% were in support of starting the scheme early.

Following the feedback, the Mayor has decided to proceed with the next phase of his plans. The ULEZ will start in central London on 8 April 2019 and operate within the central London Congestion Charging zone, 24/7 every day of the year. Some vehicles will need to meet tighter emissions standards than those which apply to the T-Charge or pay a daily emission charge to drive within the zone.

To extend the benefit of cleaner air further, the Mayor will consult on extending the ULEZ boundary up to the North and South Circular later this year.

To use our new ULEZ vehicle checker to see if your vehicle is affected, click here

Yours sincerely,
Signature_________________Image not displayed
Paul Cowperthwaite
General Manager Road User Charging

received 3 Nov 2017

No subterfuge there then - Tthe Road User Charging Unit want your money and are presuming to extend the ransom zone significantly.

Nov 3, 2017 at 1:15 PM | Registered Commentertomo

Stewgreen and Alex Cull - thank you for the BBC Daily Politics heads up and the transcript up thread.

Clip currently available here:

Will dirty car charge help save lives?

Drivers using the dirtiest cars now have to pay an extra £10 daily 'T-charge' to enter central London in a bid aiming to reduce the impact of air pollution.

Daily Politics presenter Jo Coburn heard from environmental legal firm ClientEarth's Simon Alcock and Professor Anthony Frew, a specialist in respiratory medicine at the Royal Sussex County Hospital, on the disputed claims over the number of deaths caused by pollution.

Release date:
23 October 2017

7 minutes

Nov 3, 2017 at 2:19 PM | Unregistered Commenternot banned yet

Nov 3, 2017 at 2:19 PM | not banned yet

What about the MPs with the dirtiest minds?

If people wash their cars more often, what about the extra water (heated or not) detergents etc entering the drainage systems?

Nov 3, 2017 at 3:04 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Brussels has an air pollution PR event.....

A pair of lungs - fyi - I reckon the silver tights are a fashion mistake.

and in other EU news this is offered without comment

Nov 7, 2017 at 12:44 PM | Registered Commentertomo

tomo, why is Bernie Ecclestone in pole position?

Nov 7, 2017 at 1:25 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie


because his recently ex son in law wasn't available?

No Dawkins or Greenpiece invited then ?

Nov 7, 2017 at 1:49 PM | Registered Commentertomo

Doctors confirm that cold weather is a killer, not diesel particulates.

Nov 8, 2017 at 3:30 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

@Golf confuses short Bernie Ec with a woman
Ms Irmgard SCHWAETZER, President of the Synod of the Evangelic Church of Germany (EKD)

Nov 8, 2017 at 7:07 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

People are realising DieselsRpaedos rates dirty old petrol cars as better than clean Euro6 diesel
So the campaign is encouraging dirtier option.

\\ Alan Tovey 13 NOVEMBER 2017
Prices of used diesel vehicles could be “cratered” by a broad-brush regulatory regime that doesn’t discriminate between most and least polluting ­engines, it has been claimed.

Nick Molden, chief executive of the testing company Emissions Analytics and one of the harshest critics of diesel at the height of the VW scandal, has come to the defence of the fuel. His company’s on-the-road tests have found some of the most modern diesel cars, classed as meeting the Euro 6 standard of pumping out no more than 80mg of NOx pollution per kilometre, achieve far better performances.

“Some of the latest diesel cars are as good as petrol cars on pollution,” said Mr Molden, whose company has established the EQUA Air Quality Index, which gives an independent assessment of how much pollution cars emit.//

Diesel critic makes U-turn and warns of risk to used car prices from 'demonisation' of the fuel
Telegraph Premium

Nov 17, 2017 at 2:49 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

James Hansen believes he can waste more Taxpayers Money

"One of the fathers of climate science is calling for a wave of lawsuits against governments and fossil fuel companies that are delaying action on what he describes as the growing, mortal threat of global warming."

Nov 17, 2017 at 3:43 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

To get into this library users have to squeeze past a parked bus with it's diesel engine running.
The bus is marked "BBC"
... Cos it's the BBC Radio Humberside outside broadcast bus which parks up each day some where in the county each weekday to do it's lunchtime 3 hours.

Nov 29, 2017 at 2:49 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

WUWT : Does Air Pollution Really Shorten Life Spans? November 28, 2017
Guest essay by Dr. Indur M. Goklany
\\ To recap, the death toll from air pollution caused by fossil fuel combustion — and the resulting decline in life expectancy — are, to quote Mark Twain, greatly exaggerated. In fact, for whatever reason, life expectancy increases in association with fossil fuel use.

Finally, some may argue that while PM2.5 may not reduce life expectancy, it may actually make the population sicker. But this argument fails scrutiny.//
\\ In today’s world, claims of air pollution shortening life expectancy are fake news premised on fake deaths.//

Nov 30, 2017 at 12:04 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

LBC : 9:30am New report says
"Over-60s should avoid going for a walk on city streets as air pollution wipes out the health benefit from the exercise, research shows."
Debunked by the Essex prof brought on to comment
"The cohort is too small"
"You can't take a small group and walk them down Oxford St and then around Hyde Park, and get a proper result
, there are a number of other factors that make them different environments
... yes it is best to exercise in the park
.. there are some walking routes which are low traffic routes
.. cycle masks often make little difference unless you are using one custom fitted to your face"

Dec 6, 2017 at 10:25 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Link to Imperial press release

Exposure to air pollution on city streets is enough to counter the beneficial health effects of exercise in older adults, according to new research.

The findings, published in The Lancet, show that short term exposure to air pollution in built up areas like London’s busy Oxford Street can prevent the positive effects on the heart and lungs that can be gained from walking

Comments are open, but they are not yet being published.

Dec 6, 2017 at 10:34 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen
Dec 6, 2017 at 10:55 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Government by law suit, not by vote
Client Earth now bullying Welsh Government

“People in Wales are choking on toxic fumes on a daily basis,” said James Thornton, chief executive of ClientEarth.

Really ?? name the person who choked.

Dec 6, 2017 at 11:41 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Back to London pollution exercise
The prof on at 9:30am was Professor Ian Colbeck of Essex Uni

I add that the strange thing about London is that it has boroughs with low end life expectancy
yet has other boroughs which have the longest lifespan in the country.

Dec 6, 2017 at 12:08 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

stewgreen 11:41

As time passes - a cynical person might start to believe that there was an element of "sue and settle" in Client Earth's antics - or at the very least - an element of threatening legal action against public bodies who have a track record of being weak and desperate to be seen to be doing what they deem to be "the right thing" or simply allying with like minded busybodies...

I'm thinking of the Welsh Government's reactions to being bullied by the tobacco controller anti-vaping crew here - which is a pitiful display of political spinelessness regarding lobbyists allied to an obvious appetite for regulation with little regard to the consequences beyond inflating their self regard.

Let's not forget that the tobacco crew have their finger in the AGW pie with prominent campaigners like Stanton Glanz and Simon Chapman regularly wading in to AGW bunfights. As an aside you might enjoy this speech by an Australian senator about Simon Chapman - there are a number of prominent AGW warmist/alarmist players who deserve a similar public outing.

Dec 6, 2017 at 12:17 PM | Registered Commentertomo

Leeds considering Clear Air Zone with road pollution charges : Yorkshire Post

BBC Leeds doing its #DieselsRPaedos campaigning : Tweet

To clarify, private cars are not included in our proposals for a #CleanAirZone.
The proposed plans includes charging taxis, buses and HGVs which are below certain engine standards to get us to compliance. #Leeds #AirQuality #AirPollution

Dec 6, 2017 at 2:38 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen