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« Carwyn's car crash | Main | DECC's oil price forecast updated »
Thursday
Aug272015

Wasted Green - Josh 340

This week there's news that the Obama administration is to fork out $12 billion in new Federal loan guarantees for renewables businesses - somewhat ironic considering the debt-laden ill wind blowing in from the East at the moment.

Cartoons by Josh

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Reader Comments (16)

After all the terifying things that have happened in the course of the last 15 years, I am unable to produce anything
more than a shrug of the shoulders.
I thought that nails were supposed to fix coffin lids firmly down, but in climate science, it seems that the more nails
only serve to lift the lid and expose the world to greater incredulous excesses.
I have no idea how this all came about but I am certain that it is going to end badly in the not too distant future.

Aug 27, 2015 at 11:53 AM | Unregistered Commenterpesadia

There's nothing more dangerous than a second term president on the way out but determined to poison the waters for his successor.

Pointman

Aug 27, 2015 at 12:03 PM | Unregistered CommenterPointman

Ever since he ascended to his current position, I've been trying to find something at which Obama excels - apart from moving his head from side-to-side with his nose in the air, while reading with such boring and oh-so-predictable cadences from his teleprompter.

But, by George, I think you've got it, Josh! Obama obviously excels at throwing the money of future generations down the drain.

Brilliant, as always, Josh ... and thanks for my smile for the day:-)

Aug 27, 2015 at 12:28 PM | Registered CommenterHilary Ostrov

Why should any politician worry about pouring other people's money down the drain, when he can not stand for re-election? Most people would not stand for it.

Aug 27, 2015 at 12:31 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

More money "well wasted".
You can't say Oh Bummer is inconsistent.

Aug 27, 2015 at 12:54 PM | Unregistered Commentertoorightmate

Tesla got billions in subsidy...odd that the progs never mention that one..

Aug 27, 2015 at 1:03 PM | Unregistered CommenterVenusNotWarmerDueToCO2

"...the amount added to the public debt since Obama took office averages about $3.7 billion a day..."
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/oct/30/clint-eastwood/clint-eastwood-says-ad-us-borrows-4-billion-day-mu/

So $12 billion is 3 and a quarter days worth.

Meanwhile, the US military budget is $598.5 billion in 2015 - more than half the total.
https://www.nationalpriorities.org/campaigns/military-spending-united-states/

And none of that is a loan with the possibility of payback. And it's every year. And it will be the same or worse with the new president. Priorities?

Aug 27, 2015 at 1:07 PM | Unregistered CommenterJamesG

"Tesla got billions in subsidy...odd that the progs never mention that one.."

Well I'd like to think that it isn't mentioned because it isn't true. No excuse for not checking facts in the internet age!

"Tesla Motors, just cut the government a $451.8 million check, which means that Tesla has paid off its entire Department of Energy loan plus interest. “Following this payment, Tesla (TSLA) will be the only American car company to have fully repaid the government,” the company boasted (emphasis Tesla’s)."
http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/articles/2013-05-22/tesla-pays-off-its-465-million-loser-loan

Aug 27, 2015 at 1:22 PM | Unregistered CommenterJamesG

JamesG -
There are other subsidies besides the DoE loan. From a recent LA Times article, "Nevada has agreed to provide Tesla with $1.3 billion in incentives to help build a massive battery factory near Reno." And "The Palo Alto company has also collected more than $517 million from competing automakers by selling environmental credits." [The latter are so-called "zero-emission vehicle" (ZEV) credits. More here: "In 2013, ZEV credits to Tesla totaled $129.8 million — to a company that lost $61.3 million for the year on its actual manufacturing and selling operations."]

Aug 27, 2015 at 1:51 PM | Registered CommenterHaroldW

JamesG
“Following this payment, Tesla (TSLA) will be the only American car company to have fully repaid the government,”

Apparently the rest have done so also

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jan/22/barack-obama/obama-says-automakers-have-paid-back-all-loans-it-/

Chrysler manufacturing & demand for its JK Jeep Wranglers has been a great success story for the company & helped enormously in the recovery

Someone remind me what Obama got his Nobel peace prize for doing ?

Aug 27, 2015 at 1:52 PM | Unregistered CommenterBLACK PEARL

JamesG (Aug 27, 2015 at 1:22 PM), I note that your link is to and article from 2013.

Here's a more recent one that seems to show that the subsidies are still flowing...
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hy-musk-subsidies-20150531-story.html#page=1

Aug 27, 2015 at 1:52 PM | Unregistered CommenterDave Salt

Dave & HaroldW
Yes that article or something like it was posted by the bish and I commented at the time that the definition of subsidy used is not the traditional one. For example, pretty much every industry that promises jobs is given such subsidies. Many industries are also given tax credits too - before someone brings it up. But that isn't a subsidy either, just a lower tax. Ryanair I pointed out, receives payments from several local governments in France for bringing in the tourists. It usually regarded as a win-win: More people visit France than anywhere else and the numbers are still growing. so when is it a subsidy and when is it an investment for the future?

In Obamas defence he was universally criticised for these car-maker loans - particularly by libertarians. Yet they turned out to be a good thing didn't they? Tesla, at the time, only took out a loan because all the others had done so, so it would not be a level playing field if they didn't. It wasn't part of their business plan.

Aug 27, 2015 at 3:05 PM | Unregistered CommenterJamesG

Actually I believe the car-maker loans were from he outgoing Bush administration anyway.

Aug 27, 2015 at 3:15 PM | Unregistered CommenterJamesG

JamesG -
Fair point about the Nevada deal, that localities often offer favorable tax treatment in order to encourage establishment of a plant, and this applies to many industries. [I take issue with your characterization of this as "not a subsidy", but it's not particularly relevant here.] But the ZEV credits are specifically a "green" subsidy.

There are other incentives to purchasers, notably a $7500 Federal tax credit, which indirectly support the "green car" industry. I wouldn't call these subsidies, although they come near the mark.

Aug 27, 2015 at 4:03 PM | Registered CommenterHaroldW

My understanding is that Tesla was granted more funds to ASSIST with paying off older debt to the US Govt.
They now have new Govt debt to repay.
Maybe that receive more grants to help pay off the new debt.

But, let's make sure the facts don't get in the way of a nice, warm fuzzy story.

Aug 28, 2015 at 12:39 AM | Unregistered Commentertoorightmate

tooright
You make an assertion based on an unreliable recollection with no link to back it up and then you call it a fact?

Aug 28, 2015 at 11:17 AM | Unregistered CommenterJamesG

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