Wednesday
Aug262015
by 
Bishop Hill
Bishop Hill Just in from the Nats
Aug 26, 2015 Politicians This just in from the deputy leader of the SNP in Westminster:
Scottish Tories to roll out red carpet to "rich people" through GM crops and fracking! No thanks! No GM. No Fracking. No Tories. #VoteSNP
— Stewart Hosie (@StewartHosieSNP) August 25, 2015Words fail me.
Reader Comments (81)
Give the guy a break, he's a politician, surely you didn't expect to see & hear knowledgable & informed debate, did you?
So without imported food and energy, Independent Scotland is going to be depending on ....?
Selling gnats? Or are they all mozzies?
It's what the nutty scots voted for. Let them have it all. Indepedence, windmills, no fracking, no CO², no power.
If that is Nicola Sturgeon's husband, I wish him well after his hospital visit ....
Well, one out of three ain't bad for a politician.
Ignore him, Andrew. Most people do. He's one of the biggest assets the other parties have. Along with the likes of Christine Graham.
And he's Shona Robison's husband, John Constable, not The Nippy Sweetie's.
That's the sporran shrivelling arrogance winning a massive majority can engender. What's the betting? Will they squander it all away up against a piscine wall in a gentrified suburb of Glasgow Govan yet again
Come back Ali McCloud, all is forgiven.
Rab D. MacPointman
Hosie is a nasty, would-be Stalin.
No wind farms. No solar farms. No other subsidies to rich landowners.
The unspeakable hypocrisy of the Rupert McMurdoch sponsored 'It's oor oil' party is unbelievable.
What's with the " #VoteSNP" bit? Is there another election coming up?
I mean, they recently lost a vote to leave the UK, and then they lost a vote to rule the UK. I must be missing something.
michael hart, there's a Scottish Parliament election next year
Interesting logic: to be rich, you have to be a Tory. So, the road to wealth is simple: become a Tory and be rich; remain anything other than Tory, and you will forever be in penury. Given those options, what would any sensible person do? (Hint: not vote SNP.)
Thanks, TinyCO2. I was beginning to wonder if merely "voting SNP" had become an industry in its own right.
No GM. No fracking. No Tories. And now no oil, not at $50 a barrell, We're doomed, I tell ye, doomed!
michael hart
Believe me, voting SNP is an industry in its own right. They're either planning them, having them, or whining about the result of them.
The irony is that those who own the upland areas the SNP want to cover in windmills, and therefore make rich through fat subsidies, are themselves 'rich people '
With this bold statement from the SNP, they are opening up a thriving new Scottish growth industry in political graveyards. They can be built entirely on Green foundations, (by popular demand) whether they like it or not.
knr
Which is why Sturgeon's Nasty Party is planning to re-distribute the land among the deserving peasantry, or at least nick it from landowners that are not considered worthy of it.
At the end of the day the Scottish guvmint will probably keep it all for itself. It will need the subsidies to help offset the lack of revenue from "oor oil".
They're certainly going to need something since they appear intent on driving out their chemical industry (Ineos) with a ban on fracking and their scientific research centres (Rowett et al) with the ban in anything to do with GM crops.
Hosie is a throwback but he keeps the "keepers of the sacred flame" of independence happy. The true voice of the SNP is the Augustinian prayer they say every night, "Lord, give us full fiscal responsibility, but not yet, and preferably not in my political lifetime!"
At the going down of the sun, when the lights go out and we freeze in our eco friendly hovels.
We will remember them........
Hat tip Rob Binyon
Hard to ignore such concentrated reactionary ignorance.
As a youngster, I was raised on stories about the brilliance of the native Scots from my mother, a fourth-generation Kiwi, who clung to her Highland roots through clan membership and her incredible familial knowledge network about which very distant cousin did what. I have to admit that when I was younger, most of her verbalisation about distant cousins went straight over my head.
But if there was any truth in her tales about the achievements of various Scots relatives, what on earth went wrong in the lives of the individual membership of the SNP to produce such sour and embittered personalities?
Mike Jackson true given that ever-time the SNP are asked how they are going to pay to 'pave the streets with gold ', which of course has only not happened already because of the English , they revert to 'their oil' line
The double irony would be if the Shetlands said 'whose oil ' and decide they have more in common with Norway than the elite or Edinburgh or the bigots of Glasgow, and voted themselves out of the SNP grasp. And they have as much right to do was the SNP has to be out of the UK.
knr
Top 20 landowners in Scotland in acres
Forestry Commission 1,600,000
Duke of Buccleuch 270,000
Scottish Executive - Rural Affairs 260,000
National Trust for Scotland 175,000
Alcan Highlands 135,000
Blair Charitable Trust (Private Trust) 130,000
Captain Alwyn Farquharson 125,000
Duchess of Westminster 120,000
Earl of Seafield 105,000
Crown Estate Commission (MOD) 100,000
Edmund Vestey 100,000
South Uist Estate Ltd. 92,000
Sir Donald Cameron 90,000
Countess of Sutherland 90,000
RSPB (52 estates) 87,000
Paul van Vlissengen 87,000
Scottish Natural Heritage 84,000
Robin Fleming 80,000
Hon. Chas Pearson 77,000
Lord Margadale 73,000
Just over half are private individuals.
--------------------------------------------------
Non British
Unknown Malaysian 1,600,000
Mohammed bin Raschid al Maktoum Arab 270,000
Kjeld Kirk-Christiansen Danish 260,000
Joseph & Lisbet Koerner Swedish 175,000
Stanton Avery American 135,000
Mohammed al Fayed Egyptian 130,000
Urs Schwarzenburg Swiss 125,000
Count Knuth Danish 120,000
Mahdi Mohammed al Tajir Arab 105,000
Prof. Ian Macneil American 100,000
Lucan Ardenberg Danish 100,000
Eric Delwart Norwegian 92,000
Withdraw the Barnett safety blanket and they won't be able to scream for GM and fracking quickly enough.
In the political world the creation of an enemy is perceived to be far more powerful than any creative manifesto-policy.
The SNP and the President of the United States are working the perceived enemy playbook, with what they see to be, a resounding and never ending success.
These tactics are as short term as even politics gets, behind the threat of perceived enemies there is no policy substance.
As the imaginary threat fails to manifest either in absolution or in magnitude all that is left is a policy vacuum, or to put another way - Scotch Mist!
Is anyone else having trouble with Recaptcha?
BTW, the SNP also wants to see the end of Trident and Faslane Naval Base. The MOD has already made it clear that such actions will mean an end to RN contracts north of the border, so with the decline in the offshore oil industry, that means the end of Scottish shipbuilding.
His words fail him too.
Govan goes Caracas?
I canna credit the rubbish this lot [SNP] put out, it really does beggar belief.
And Hosie? surely, this is the rumination of a halfwit playing games with politic policy?
Scotland welcomes ye all - twinned with Venezuela.
The art of constructing 'significant' associations by imposing order on random social dots or for that matter, upon the chaos better known as climate is well known to relieve anxiety and aid the illusion of control.
Take comfort in the fact Stewart probably 'feels' better now.
Hoser forgot the 'No Money!' part at the end.
Speaking of Caracas, Houston is gaining new Venezuelans daily. Educated Venezuelans, those who still have a bit of money, those with some family already here, all are getting out as the belief that nothing could be worse than Chavez is proven false.
People are starving, people are being attacked by gangs, by police and state security. Venezuela is emptying out.
Reading the anti-science reactionary swill in that tweet makes me wonder how empty Scotland might get, and how rundown Scotland may become before rational governance returns there, too.
The first minister was told by a Scots farmer on R4 this morning that Scotland has a strong food and drink market. But the farmers are struggling to supply it? So she reckons that the Scottish government has to fix that right across the...Scottish government.
Big words from the first minister. Is it the english that have stopped them supplying themselves or what? I think its themselves and the EU and in a similar way that the EU screws us. I really struggle with this ongoing sh8t!
Didn't Wogan own miles of forestry up there at one time?
Right, so the Scots want expensive electricity and expensive food. And the stupid Tories won't give it to them.
The GMO issue is almost exactly like the climate change issue but with the roles reversed.....
http://www.campaignforrealfarming.org/2015/08/gm-safe-theres-no-consensus-according-to-new-research-from-tufts-university/
"Prominent scientists and policymakers assert with confidence that there is no scientific controversy over the health effects of genetically modified organisms (GMOs)—that genetically modified crops currently in commercial use and those yet to be commercialized are inherently safe for human consumption and do not have to be tested. Those who disagree are cast as “GMO deniers.” This article examines scientific reviews and papers on GMOs, compares the findings of professional societies, and discusses the treatment of scientists who have reported adverse effects in animal feeding experiments. This article concludes by exploring the role that politics and corporate interests have had in distorting an honest inquiry into the health effects of GMO crops."
http://www.ensser.org/increasing-public-information/no-scientific-consensus-on-gmo-safety/
"As scientists, physicians, academics, and experts from disciplines relevant to the scientific, legal, social and safety assessment aspects of genetically modified organisms (GMOs),[1] we strongly reject claims by GM seed developers and some scientists, commentators, and journalists that there is a “scientific consensus” on GMO safety[2] [3] [4] and that the debate on this topic is “over”.[5]
We feel compelled to issue this statement because the claimed consensus on GMO safety does not exist. The claim that it does exist is misleading and misrepresents the currently available scientific evidence and the broad diversity of opinion among scientists on this issue. Moreover, the claim encourages a climate of complacency that could lead to a lack of regulatory and scientific rigour and appropriate caution, potentially endangering the health of humans, animals, and the environment.
Science and society do not proceed on the basis of a constructed consensus, as current knowledge is always open to well-founded challenge and disagreement. We endorse the need for further independent scientific inquiry and informed public discussion on GM product safety and urge GM proponents to do the same. Some of our objections to the claim of scientific consensus are listed below"
Noting the hardline GM activism of visitors to this blog, it's extremely hard for an objective observer to escape the conclusion that many people are indeed only sceptical if it affects their own pockets and/or preformed ideology and that therefore their interest in real science is self-delusion. If you assert such obvious unthinking opposition to something then you cannot complain about others who do it too.
Firstly some SNP supporters tweeted to criticise Hosie for that thoughtless tweet. Secondly, the almost constant & contemptible anti-Scots rhetoric on this blog demonstrates neatly just why SNP voters vote that way.
Comments with zero relation to reality
"So without imported food and energy".
"a nasty, would-be Stalin"
"they recently lost a vote to leave the UK, and then they lost a vote to rule the UK"
"no oil, not at $50 a barrel"
"since they appear intent on driving out their chemical industry (Ineos) with a ban on fracking and their scientific research centres (Rowett et al)"
Sheer bigotry
"It's what the nutty scots voted for. Let them have it all. Indepedence, windmills, no fracking, no CO², no power."
"sporran shrivelling arrogance "
"Withdraw the Barnett safety blanket "
Other strawmen
"'paved with gold'
'Scotland wants expensive electricity'
"Is it the english that have stopped them supplying themselves"
Pretty much the only true statement here is....
"Hard to ignore such concentrated reactionary ignorance"
Except that the majority of the comments above display it! What a collection of intellectuals...not!
JamesG the SNP's constant anti-westminster outlook, where 'everything' is the fault of the English combined with this odd mix of claiming it is 'their oil' which will pay for their wish list whilst pushing an anti-fossil fuel stance is hardly winning them friends. For a long time they had a easy time being in opposition, and so never having to take responsibility for anything , now in power they wish to carry on the same way and it is always 'others to blame'
The biggest issues for the SNP is that the people of Scotland will sooner of latter start to say to them , no its your fault .
Hate Scotland, like I don't chop off my right arm because it is part of me - upon my life, I could never hate Scotland - not even Hamilton Accies - QotS forever! We do despair of some of its politics - is all. I really do blame Mel Gibson - that Australian soak......oops!
James G
On GM vs Climate.
It ought to be a straightforward matter to establish where the balance of the science lies in crop research. As has already been pointed out virtually everything that appears on the table has been "genetically engineered" to some extent. Selective breeding for virus or fungus resistance, size, taste, keeping quality, unformity is in essence the same process over a period of time.
That is common ground — or should be.
Adding tulip genes to potatoes is certainly another matter but scientific knowledge has advanced to the point where crops can be made resistant to herbicides by this means and the debate is whether this is acceptable or not.
But that debate needs to concentrate on the benefits to the consumer and is not supposed to be influenced by the fact that as a militant anti-capitalist you don't like Monsanto making money. (Not you personally, you understand).
Forgive the simplistic black and white stuff. I'm trying to keep this brief. The debate cannot be productive between the GM at all costs brigade on one side and the No to GM brigade on the other.
On the SNP
Hosie is a balloon. As I said above, he keeps the "Keepers of the Sacred Flame" happy.
You want another example? My old adversary Christine Graham has stuck her head above the parapet suggesting that the Pentland Hills Regional Park should be extended into the Borders. Borders Council have told her what they think of that idea but she plans to press ahead anyway. This is the woman who floated the idea hat she might stand in Berwick at the General Election!
A ban on fracking has the potential to drive Ineos out of Scotland.They need cheap feedstock if they are to compete.
A ban on all things GM must in anywhere but Wonderland or LaLaLand have an adverse effect on crop and animal research, an area for which Aberdeen and Edinburgh are already world-famous.
Closing all your power stations is the same as saying "Scotland wants expensive electricity" and/or "imported ... energy" (the "food" bit depends on exactly what the story is about food supplies).
I'm afraid that the comments on this thread, while they might be somewhat .... trenchant, shall we say, are rooted in what the SNP is saying and doing.
You lost a "once in a generation" (according to your then party leader and First Minister) vote last September and promptly moved the goalposts.
You won 56 parliamentary seats in your relatively small part of the United Kingdom and think that gives you some sort of right to dictate how the UK government runs. You are not even big enough to be the offiicial opposition; stop pretending you are.
What is Barnett if not a "safety blanket"? What gives Scotland the right in perpetuity to have a per capita share of expenditure 50% greater than England? And don't talk about tax revenues; you've been sorely misled on that as on so many other things — like the value of North Sea oil. $50 a barrel leaves you with a fiscal black hole that will suck the entire country into itself. Forget free care for the elderly; forget free bus passes; forget free prescriptions; forget free eye tests; forget free university tuition. Stop pretending.
I admire your loyalty to your party but if you can't understand why the English are finally repaying you with some of the medicine you have been dishing out (and still are doing judging by some of the stuff coming out of the SNP) for several decades then it really is time to wake up and pay attention.
You have been blaming England for your failings for decades. I lived in Scotland for 40 years; I've heard it all. If it wasn't for the dead hand of "the English" you'd all be rich, the sun would always shine, and so on.
Sorry, JamesG, but please, please, understand why an Englishman's definition of a well-balanced Scotsman is someone with a chip on both shoulders.
The Jocks voted SNP from the best of socialist principles, being given lots of other people's money, but best of all, the other people are those English bastards!
"the almost constant & contemptible anti-Scots rhetoric on this blog"
True to form JamesG forgets that the SNP != Scotland.
In my opinion, and in my experience, SNP supporters are almost exactly like AGW cultists.
"The Jocks voted SNP from the best of socialist principles". The irony is that they have done nothing to deserve the adjective 'progressive', while destroying the education system (there are 120,000 fewer higher education places as a result of providing 'free' university education) they are removing one of the paths for those less well off to do somethign about it.
I had a head to head with an SNP cooncillor yesterday She called me out about a planning issue on a Facebook page. I won't link because it has my real name.
I replied in my usual charming way 'Do you honestly think I came on here to lie to dafties ?'
The problem is that she thinks I'm as daft as she is and just make things up. I got my (extensive) information from the planning officer in charge of the (listed building) issue.
https://www.facebook.com/TheOnlyWayIsPaisleysPast/photos/a.530151403677313.139736.530143157011471/1223492804343166/?type=1&theater
Then she decides she is coming to my house to give me documents. I told her I was going out. She said she would drop them off, she didn't, then she would come next morning, I told her I would be asleep. She didn't turn up again. I expect her to get back in touch today again.
The point being I don't want an SNP headcase in my house. I have dropped about half my social life because I don't want to hear idiots shouting ridiculous (Murdoch sponsored) socialist nonsense. An (ex) friend's mother is a prominent local SNP wallah and that is the source of the trouble.
I genuinely hate them. I know I shouldn't :-)
JamesG
So what is Scotland going to do without importing food and energy? Remember the post was about the SNP being anti GM, anti fracking, and anti Tory. I am not affiliated to any political party, and you can say what you like about the Tory party.
Slagging off inconvenient questions, with accusations of racial hatred, avoids the question in the short term, but does not solve any of the problems.
If your attitude is typical of SNP attitudes, how long can the SNP expect the people of Scotland to take the SNP seriously?
Breaking. The SNP's very own J Edgar Hoover, Stephen Hoose is about to resign
Sir Stephen House to quit as Police Scotland chief constable
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-34072703
The SNP are a disaster. IMO, that's because, without Murdoch support, they and their low quality representatives would be working in jobs with minimum responsibility. I'm being serious. These people aren't ready or fit for office. It's not really their fault.
Both Germany and France are opposed to GM crops.Will the intellectuals who inhabit this site also claim that these two countries will be unable to feed their people?
The SNP has taken a stance on GM crops which might be to the advantage of the country. Perceptions matter at least as much as the science itself as readers of this blog should know. The SNP may be wrong on fracking but there is at least a possibility that it is seeking to manage opinion and that fracking will eventually happen.
What we get on this site is the "dog whistle" of Montford - "words fail me" followed by instant frothing.
There is considerable hypocrisy here - not least from Montford. Why does this never get reported?
http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/S4_EconomyEnergyandTourismCommittee/Inquiries/Sir_Donald_Millar_and_Colin_Gibson.pdf
"The present structure of the industry in the UK is defective in that none of the participating companies or organisations has a clear responsibility for securing the reliability of electricity supplies..."
Nial
And according to reports yesterday, the north-east of Scotland is desperately short of teachers.
I very much doubt that is because no-one wants to go there; if it is it will be the first time for a long time. Look to the LA budgets and the strain being put on school staff by the EIS and its political correctness and the SNP obsession with upstaging England in university tuition fees.
sam
I perceive the SNP position on GM crops (and fracking) as being typically Holy Willie politics. I admit to a preference for allowing Americans to comprehensively test new GM crops for at least another 25 years. That's a practical rather than a moralistic stance.
sam
You reckon Hosie's outburst doesn't come under the heading "instant frothing"?
The man is a parliamentarian, ffs; he's not supposed to go round behaving like an arsehole. Unlike golf charlie, I am to all intents and purposes a Tory (though not a member of the party), and he can still say what he likes about the Tories for all I care, that's his right, but this obsession about making Scotland a "Tory-free zone" just makes the SNP look childish and Hosie's outburst suggests either he was pissed at the time or he hasn't grown up yet or he's not fit to represent anyone in any parliament or possibly all three.
The SNP have got to stop doing their best to get up everyone's noses and start acting like a reasonably responsible government (in Holyrood) and an equally responsible opposition (in Westminster).
Your point about the structure of the UK energy industry is by-the-by. We all know it's chaotic and not fit for purpose but we also know that trying to pretend that a technology that was abandoned as useless 200 years ago (except by eco-nutters) is not the solution.