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« Diary date - Berlin | Main | Diary dates, not to be missed edition »
Wednesday
Apr082015

Green children.....

News from Balcombe

To paraphrase Ignatius Loyola: Give me child  while he is still at school and I can make him think the way I think he should.

TM [LInk repaired]

 Update 8.40am  12 April 2015

It is alarming to see that the Australians schools are at it too, in what appears to be a more organised way

See  the article from Quadrant on GWPF

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Reader Comments (65)

Good morning Your Grace... that "News from Balcombe link doesn't appear to be working.

Rgds

PW

Apr 8, 2015 at 9:25 AM | Unregistered CommenterPeter Walsh

Link not working for me either.

Also that Jesuit thing might be scary, but it's not true. 12 years of Jesuit education, and I'm an atheist, and nobody I went to school with is still religious. If anything, the Jesuit education system teaches us out of religion.

Apr 8, 2015 at 9:30 AM | Unregistered CommenterTheBigYinJames

Just because the attempt doesn't work on everyone doesn't mean the anti-frackers and the pro-solars are not going to try and insert their green propaganda into young minds.

Apr 8, 2015 at 9:50 AM | Unregistered CommenterMessenger

Very good opportunity for people to see if solar is a practical solution or a waste of money. I welcome the experiment...

Apr 8, 2015 at 9:55 AM | Unregistered CommenterDodgy Geezer

And there was little old me thinking brainwashing in schools was illegal!

Apr 8, 2015 at 10:08 AM | Unregistered CommenterAlan the Brit

Dodgy Geezer

I welcome the experiment...
... which will end in tears. Sooner rather than later hopefully.

Apr 8, 2015 at 10:09 AM | Registered CommenterMike Jackson

It could be worse TBY James, twelve years of indoctrination have reduced Roger Kimball to craven belief in Andrew Bolt and the truthiness of Climate Change The Facts, a view Pope Francis has magisterially rejected.

Apr 8, 2015 at 10:09 AM | Unregistered CommenterRussell

Fixed, now – or, at least, for me it is!

Interesting; more than £50,000 to reduce two schools’ electricity bills by… what? £200 per month, each? That would mean about 200 months (>16 years) to repay the installation costs; how much will maintenance and repairs cost over that time, and for how long will the panels be viable? Teachers might teach*, but how many of them learn?

I shall repeat myself from a few posts back: perhaps we should take heart from the words of Arthur Schopenhauer:

All truth passes through three stages:

First, it is ridiculed.
Second, it is violently opposed.
Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

We are into the second of these, with calls for “deniers” to be imprisoned, assaulted or beheaded. How much worse could it get, and how long, before we move to the third?


*or “teacherise”, as might be the case in the USA, where burglars “burglarise”.

Apr 8, 2015 at 10:11 AM | Registered CommenterRadical Rodent

From their own story: the removal of subsidies from 6th April 2015 isn't all it seems - it doesn't mean that community projects can't proceed but rather that the profiteers from subsidies a.k.a. 'green investors' are no longer beneficiaries of government largesse. Strangely enough that important detail didn't make the happy-clappy summary from our 10:10 friends. This explains why they were careful to mention that crowd funding' came from local postcodes but not in fact that these funds came from investors.

http://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/2014/12/05/funds-and-etfs/vcts-and-eiss/vcts-and-eis-banned-from-investing-in-renewables-aNaBSUOuS6CsiKW2ucZYfK/article.html

Apr 8, 2015 at 10:20 AM | Unregistered CommenterFarleyR

Russell (10:09 AM): as an argumentum ab authoritate, you have provided us with probably the best, ever!

Apr 8, 2015 at 10:26 AM | Registered CommenterRadical Rodent

From the article:

Commenting on the fundraising success, Cecily Spelling, project manager for Solar Schools, run by 10:10, said: “Schools can benefit hugely from installing solar on their roofs. Not only does it boost their budget, cut carbon and bring climate change into the classroom in a new exciting way, it is also the perfect opportunity to bring the community together around clean, renewable energy.”

Ben Tyrney, headteacher at Turners Hill School praised the fundraising efforts, stating that his school’s solar installation will “benefit the community, the school and the children’s understanding of sustainability and stewardship”.

What is it with 10:10 and schoolchildren? As for bringing CC into the classroom, you'd think the headteacher would welcome the opportunity to teach by example how science does not follow dogma and that PVs offer a lot less then their rated capacity. His children could be taught a lot of maths on the back of that (qv: Rad Rod above), not to mention how geographic location can make a big difference to the amount of sunlight they will 'benefit' from. I wonder also if the children, in learning about "sustainability and stewardship" will be taught about how the panels are made - in China - and the effect that process has on that community.

Apr 8, 2015 at 10:45 AM | Registered CommenterHarry Passfield

Russell
Have you even read Climate Change - The Facts? And if so, can you point me to the errors therein, please?
As for Pope Francis, when he speaks to me on matters of faith and morals I listen. When he speaks to me on climate change he is on a subject which he probably knows less about than 90% of the contributors to this blog.
The remaining 10% being the Kool-Aid drinking trolls that are very good at snidery, less so at defending their belief system with facts.

Apr 8, 2015 at 10:46 AM | Registered CommenterMike Jackson

A year ago, Dr James Verdon produced an excellent analysis / comparison of solar vs fracked-gas relating to balcombe:

"Balcombe's solar plant: A footprint comparison"

Particularly interesting, is the relative area of solar panels needed to provide equivalent energy.

Apr 8, 2015 at 11:06 AM | Unregistered CommenterJoe Public

At least it's better than a windmill. With all the subsidies it will probably be an earner for the school for at least a decade.

As for brainwashing the kids, this is one of the less damaging things they're doing to kids. The most dangerous is that if they spend their school years doing what they want, they will emerge from the education system with an easy degree and be snapped up by a company and paid hundreds of thousands for just turning up when there's nothing better to do. For a few years more they will be allowed to waste time and money forming companies nobody wants and then... Oh well, the baby boomers have had all the luck and cheap houses, so they an pay for ever.

Apr 8, 2015 at 11:25 AM | Unregistered CommenterTinyCO2

What is overlooked is the perverse selfishness of this project. A solar installation may provide power for Balcombe (some of the time) but a fracked well will provide reliable power for a far bigger community - and from a much less obtrusive (and cheaper) footprint.

Apr 8, 2015 at 11:31 AM | Registered Commenterdavidchappell

davidchappell, we live in a society that doesn't know how things are connected. They want cheap reliable power to come from expensive, unreliable green sources. I think the phrase is 'have your cake and eat it'.

Apr 8, 2015 at 11:36 AM | Unregistered CommenterTinyCO2

Re: Radical Rodent

> Interesting; more than £50,000 to reduce two schools’ electricity bills by… what? £200 per month, each?

Give it a couple of years and you can send the schools a FOI request for all the relevent costs associated with the solar arrays and for their electricity and gas bills.

It will be nice to know how much monthly savings £50k gets you.

Alternatively, if they put the 50k into the bank then at 2% they could take out £200 per month and still have £4.5k left after 25 years.

Apr 8, 2015 at 11:41 AM | Unregistered CommenterTerryS

Putting aside the subsidies for a mo, if you're gonna put solar panels anywhere, then on top of a school sounds about the best bet. The children are in from 9-3, which is the only 6 hour window of the day you have a fighting chance of drawing any power from the things. Better that by far than the blighted field-fulls of panels with just enough light-starved grass growing between them to feed one scrawny ovine per hectare.

Apr 8, 2015 at 11:51 AM | Unregistered CommenterJit

I'm all for this, as long as they log the power produced and the power the school is using.

Apr 8, 2015 at 12:15 PM | Unregistered CommenterNial

panels have blown off school roofs before (in Norfolk)
good job there is nothing precious beneath them.

- Meanwhile in the states one year ago the EPA ran a brainwash the kids scheme with prizes
"the first 100 entrants will receive a year’s subscription to National Geographic Kids Magazine.”
...Surely not the NG that had the brainwashing cover in March : “The war On Science” (which equated CC Skeptics with moon-landing-fakers) link 2
..funny how things are all linked together

Apr 8, 2015 at 12:19 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Solar for schools are a great idea.

When is solar insolation greatest in UK - summer.

When do schools have longest 'holidays'? Oh dear, back to the drawing board.

Apr 8, 2015 at 12:26 PM | Unregistered CommenterJoe Public

Strangely on Radio 4 now there is a cartoon showing someone hiding behind a mask holding a card marked "Toxic Lies, Frack off "
- It is the main graphic for This weeks "history ideas" progs about Justice.
Tomorrow's is about Thomas Hobbes and Civil Disobedience.

@Joe Public
- And when do schools need electricity ? .. in the middle of winter during the darkness to light the classroom's
..good job these are special panels that work in the dark
.Anyone wonder why you never see any proper cost/benefit analyses for UK solar/wind projects ?

Apr 8, 2015 at 12:27 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

The traditional, and Hollywoodised version of Robin Hood, was men in Green tights, taking from the rich, to give to the poor, all to challenge dictatorial policy, and in the end, the previously poor, lived happily ever after, in scenes of rural idyll, where the sun always shone, winters were always mild, and laughing children grew up in naive innocence of any lifestyle that might be better.

Meanwhile, in 21st century England the robbing Greens, want to take from the poor, to enrich the lifestyles of the wealthy, and .........

Nostalgia is not what it used to be.

Apr 8, 2015 at 12:43 PM | Unregistered CommenterGolf Charlie

... the previously poor, lived happily ever after, in scenes of rural idyll, where the sun always shone, winters were always mild, and laughing children grew up in naive innocence ...
That'll have been the Mediaeval Warm Period, then.

Apr 8, 2015 at 1:24 PM | Registered CommenterMike Jackson

Interesting little poll on the website.
Options go from "I’m concerned that a new government will end solar subsidies" to "I’m confident that a new government will introduce new, ambitious support for solar".
Sadly no option for "I’m hopeful that a new government will end solar subsidies"

Apr 8, 2015 at 1:33 PM | Unregistered CommenterAdam Gallon

Mike Jackson, do not be stupid! All Greens know that the Medieval Warm Period is fairy story, with no foundation in Climate Science as it is indoctrinated today.

Anyone mentioning the MWP must be knocked flat with a Hockey Stick.

Apr 8, 2015 at 2:00 PM | Unregistered CommenterGolf Charlie

In 5, 10, 20 years time, who do adults sue for damages, blaming their underachievement on schooling, disrupted by climate change hysteria?

Apr 8, 2015 at 2:35 PM | Unregistered CommenterGolf Charlie

All totalitarian regimes demand indocrination of the youth; e.g. Hitler youth, Communist young pioneers, Ultimately, however, they fail.

Apr 8, 2015 at 3:01 PM | Unregistered CommenterJeff Todd

Just to repeat myself
Russell = ZDB? Certainly reads that way in the tone of the comments.

Apr 8, 2015 at 5:36 PM | Unregistered CommenterSandyS

The RePower name sounds familiar.

Oh yes, "A Generational Challenge to Repower America" July 17, 2008:

http://blog.algore.com/2008/07...

Apr 8, 2015 at 6:29 PM | Registered Commenterdennisa

Bright solar powered lights at noon will "....bring climate change into the classroom in a new exciting way,"

They will have to try harder to beat 10:10's dissident snuff video.

Apr 8, 2015 at 6:35 PM | Unregistered Commenterbetapug

"Alpacas and solar panels. What more do you need?"

Back Balcombe, the 10:10 project which is behind (beneath?) this may seem to have spent too much time in the sun, but they do have friends like Ben Webster in high places: http://www.backbalcombe.org/node/8

Further back in the shade is a truly awesome nest of lawyers. Read their legal page: http://www.1010uk.org/legal

Apr 8, 2015 at 7:08 PM | Unregistered Commenterbetapug

The best thing that could happen would be if the main power companies cut balcombe from the grid. That will demonstrate most adequately their futile gesture. Sadly they will make a bit of money if the sun shines. Whether that would be as much as they would have made with a more conventional investment they will be too thick to know or understand.

Apr 8, 2015 at 7:12 PM | Unregistered CommenterStephen Richards

It could be worse TBY James, twelve years of indoctrination have reduced Roger Kimball to craven belief in Andrew Bolt and the truthiness of Climate Change The Facts, a view Pope Francis has magisterially rejected.

Russell

Religious belief is religious belief regardless of the idol.

Apr 8, 2015 at 7:15 PM | Unregistered CommenterStephen Richards

If my experience of teenagers is anything to go by, they will eschew most of what they learned at primary school on principle!

Apr 8, 2015 at 7:16 PM | Unregistered Commenterjamesp

Those disposed to idolize their own propaganda are as far gone as those bent on model worship. No one is obliged to take their misbehavior seriously .

Apr 8, 2015 at 7:33 PM | Unregistered CommenterRussell

Let's see them use only solar to power the school. That will teach the children a lesson they won't forget about Green schemes.

Apr 8, 2015 at 7:50 PM | Unregistered CommenterGeary

... less "Green children", more "Blue children".

Apr 8, 2015 at 7:50 PM | Unregistered CommenterGeary

Apr 8, 2015 at 11:36 AM TinyCO2

They want cheap reliable power to come from expensive, unreliable green sources.

They believe with all their being that cheap reliable power is free, is an unfettered inexhaustible bounty from nature. Presumably when they are "100% solar" they will be unplugging themselves from the grid?
Someone needs to remind them that there will also be substantial costs when it comes to removing an aging inefficient solar array and replacing batteries. Will they be sending their darlings up onto the roof to keep the array spotless?

Apr 8, 2015 at 7:53 PM | Unregistered CommenterManfred

I didn't realise the Balcombe wells required fracking . Please explain.

Apr 8, 2015 at 7:57 PM | Unregistered Commenterkellydown

Boredom ,Violent DVDS and Video games .exploitation ,young minds are so easily influenced.

Environmental studies in the National Curriculum got a ready pool of school age recruits.

Forget Islamic radicalization Environmentalist radicalization.Breeding a new generation of ECO terrorists.

Attacking luxury car show rooms, power stations or low cost airliners

ISIS will be so jealous.

But fortunately most of our youngsters would much rather see Clarkson back on Top Gear.

Apr 8, 2015 at 9:01 PM | Unregistered Commenterjamspid

Manfred, yes and they'll be up there with torches when it's dark.

Apr 8, 2015 at 9:02 PM | Unregistered CommenterTinyCO2

What will they do for power in winter? Check out http://tinyurl.com/n3bblrq , click button "Letztes Jahr" for a clear view on how inadequate the Energiewende really is.

Apr 8, 2015 at 9:15 PM | Registered CommenterAlbert Stienstra

Isn't it amusing that this "energy saving" measure only works because people are giving away money to gift them panel? How is that sustainable in the long term?

Nothing teaches like practical experience of failure. It may have the perverse effect of actually showing the teaching staff that solar is not efficient, and does not save money.

Apr 8, 2015 at 9:49 PM | Unregistered CommenterMooloo

O/T

But it appears that the greenies now think we should undergo surgery without anaesthetics, in order to prevent global warming.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3030881/Anesthetic-WARMING-planet-Gases-used-knock-patients-surgery-contributing-climate-change.html

WTF ????

Apr 8, 2015 at 10:10 PM | Registered CommenterSalopian

Salopian, surgery without anaesthetics, could be linked to voodoo science. Pachauri made references to it, trying to shift blame away from corrupt science. 'Attack is the best form of defence' did not work out very well for him, on that occasion, though his peers judged him, very favourably.

Apr 8, 2015 at 10:39 PM | Unregistered CommenterGolf Charlie

This calls for more porn on the internet so the impressible teenage minds , after all this goebbelsian brainwashing, can wnka it all away !!

Apr 8, 2015 at 10:40 PM | Unregistered CommenterVenusNotWarmerDueToCo2

“… the truthiness of Climate Change The Facts, a view Pope Francis has magisterially rejected …” (Russell 10:09 AM).
==========================
My dictionary gives two meanings for ‘magisterial’: 1. authoritative or 2. dictatorial.
Since Pope Francis has no more authority in the Earth sciences than I have (or Russell I suspect), ‘dictatorial’ would seem to apply.

Apr 8, 2015 at 11:02 PM | Unregistered CommenterChris Hanley

Chris Hanley, it is telling, when those claiming to represent science, have to rely on religious faith leaders, for support. Creating a consensus, creates a faith, but does not change science.

Apr 8, 2015 at 11:43 PM | Unregistered CommenterGolf Charlie

Russell,

You'd have to be pretty strange not to believe in Andrew Bolt. There is a fair amount of documentary evidence for his existence and I've heard there is even stuff purporting to be video footage of the creature. Mind you, this is not to deny the existence of a Pope, which seems to be backed by similar evidence. How your comment bore any relevance to the article eludes me, but I think you succeeded in making it bore in another way.

Apr 8, 2015 at 11:58 PM | Unregistered CommenterRobert Swan

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