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« The ancient history of the Hockey Stick | Main | Into the dustbin »
Tuesday
Sep102013

Future of the Climate Change Act

MPs are currently debating the future of the Climate Change Act. I have just heard it described as "ludicrous" and "the most foolish piece of legislation" MPs are ever likely to hear.

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Reader Comments (93)

Perhaps there is a god after all ^.^

Sep 10, 2013 at 5:03 PM | Registered CommenterDung

It's taken them a long time to realise what we've known for years. Has anyone yet described it as "the most expensive suicide note in history"?

Sep 10, 2013 at 5:08 PM | Registered CommenterPhillip Bratby

Time to wheel it out;

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one.”

MacKay

Sep 10, 2013 at 5:14 PM | Unregistered Commenterssat

As long as Bryony Worthington gets stripped of her whjolly undeserved peerage and personally surcharged, I'll be happy.

Sep 10, 2013 at 5:14 PM | Unregistered CommenterJustice4Rinka

J4R

So would I. Do they still make tumbrils? Where can I learn knitting?

Sep 10, 2013 at 5:25 PM | Unregistered Commenterfilbert cobb

Very defensive recital of the litany from MPs Gardiner, Berger and Whitehead. Barker tries to make criticism of climate science -- or rather criticism of the practices of climate scientists and organisations -- a 'conspiracy theory'. But my favourite, near the end of the debate is Whitehead, claiming that there 'have been fluctuations in gravity in the near future'.

Sep 10, 2013 at 5:28 PM | Unregistered CommenterBen Pile

J4R

I think it was Miliamp that started it: Worthington was just some dippy bird that caught his ear.

Sep 10, 2013 at 5:29 PM | Unregistered Commenterssat

"the most foolish piece of legislation MPs are ever likely to hear."

That's a pretty large claim!

Sep 10, 2013 at 5:39 PM | Registered Commenterjamesp

What we must remember is that the agenda of big business and big politics is totally different to the agenda of the citizens. They dance to the tune of Bilderberg. We dance to the tune of democracy.

They play at democracy, aided by a media that is owned by big politics or big business, all in the same "ruling" elite. They lie, they cajole, they tax, they bribe (with our own taxes), they manipulate (money and commodity markets), they "educate" and legislate to get us to dance to their tune.

"Necessary" Middle East Wars, Quantitative Easing and Man-Made Global Warming are 3 of their biggest scams so far, plus the EU/Euro.

The people of the democracies of the world are slowly waking up - they have gone too far with this engineered recession. Australia leads, and the UK must follow by the nation supporting UKIP, and then USA and Europe will follow.

Sep 10, 2013 at 5:44 PM | Unregistered CommenterBrian Otridge

Damn! I got no sound running the video -.-

Fixed it ^.^

Sep 10, 2013 at 6:14 PM | Registered CommenterDung

I have just heard it described as "ludicrous" and "the most foolish piece of legislation" MPs are ever likely to hear.

Hmm.


Most of these dis - honourable foukwits voted for it [CCA] in 2008, could it be, or, is it too much to hope that, at long last, be they of red, blue or yellow hue - these rosette bedecked donkeys - can see the rendering-truck turning the corner coming to collect them all from the retirement farm HoC?

Sep 10, 2013 at 6:22 PM | Unregistered CommenterAthelstan.

Knight that man!

Sep 10, 2013 at 6:28 PM | Unregistered CommenterMIke

Maybe this is the first tentative step along a long long long road that will eventually bring our laws back into synch with reality.

That it is happening at all is a sign that MPs are waking up to the concerns of the public that national energy suicide is unlikely to enhance our wealth or standing in the world. And that a general election is not now so far away and the absolute wildcard in that is UKIP, who oppose the CCA.

It'll be a hard struggle since so many of the green climatocracy have manouvered themselves into powerful positions.(see Worthington, B for example) But eventually we will be successful.

Sep 10, 2013 at 6:33 PM | Unregistered CommenterLatimer Alder

The Greens are not your friend...

Sep 10, 2013 at 6:34 PM | Unregistered CommenterLiT

I'd like to add to Brian Otridge's post Agenda 21, GLOBE, Sierra Club, Club of Rome and, of course, the privately owned Federal Reserve bank of America.
No conspiracy theories but they all march to the tune of a different drummer from the rest of us mortals.
( Amazing the things one finds out when one is retired and bored ).

Sep 10, 2013 at 6:54 PM | Unregistered CommenterG.Watkins

they have gone too far with this engineered recession. Australia leads, and the UK must follow by the nation supporting UKIP, and then USA and Europe will follow.

No europe will not follow. There is no way for that to happen. The EU is not a democracy. They cannot be voted out, they cannot be changed and they can do exactly what their tiny communist brains tell them to do.
The only way to change the EU would be through mass civil disobedience.

Sep 10, 2013 at 7:13 PM | Unregistered CommenterStephen Richards

can anyone tell me the name of the MP who speaks first - a real climate denier and my new hero

Sep 10, 2013 at 7:15 PM | Unregistered CommenterDolphinhead

Dolphinhead:

I think it's David Davies

Sep 10, 2013 at 7:26 PM | Registered CommenterRuth Dixon

thank you Ruth Dixon. Can't say have come across him before. And no Peter Lilley?

Sep 10, 2013 at 7:34 PM | Unregistered CommenterDolphinhead

Too bad it was to a mostly empty room.

It is like missionary work: enlightenment one person at a time, if necessary.

Sep 10, 2013 at 7:35 PM | Unregistered CommenterStephen Rasey

Having listened to this debate in its entirety, I find myself emotionaly distressed.
I must be biased because I cannot recall any points raised by those defending the act that were defensible;
nor can I recall any points raised by the opponents of the act that were indefensible.

Sep 10, 2013 at 7:43 PM | Unregistered Commenterpesadia

At last there is debate, so what is the reason behind this. Has a motion to repeal the act been tabled or are we in the touchy feely stages?

Sep 10, 2013 at 8:17 PM | Unregistered CommenterLord Beaverbrook

So will the BBC wheel out Bryony to defend herself on R4 Today, tomorrow?

hmmm... thought not.

Sep 10, 2013 at 8:18 PM | Registered Commentertomo

Sep 10, 2013 at 5:14 PM | Unregistered CommenterJustice4Rinka

If you have wondered at times how someone could believe in witches then reflect on the madness of the Climate Change Act and the role of the evanescent Bryony Worthington.

Sep 10, 2013 at 8:26 PM | Unregistered CommenterTheo Goodwin

As is the norm I take very little notice of the AGW debacle in the Summer.....interest starts around now with the Sea Ice figs.
How interesting....ice standing up quite well in Antarctica and the Arctic improved from last years low point. Our warm summer a pleasant change but setting no records....and in Australia, Gillard bites the dust, hopefully Flannary as well and the end of their Carbon Dioxide Tax.
Bliss?....Err no...appears in the good old UK we live in a time warp of the global warming climate change variety.

To understand that Carbon Dioxide's ability to create heat is logarithmic should by now be common and accepted knowledge...just as the warming of the tropical Troposphere is the footprint of AGW...but it's not there and never has been.
So what are they debating?....their egos, their jobs and their pensions and a strong belief that if all readers of the Guardian and Independent stick together it will all turn out right in the end.
They could well be right if our compliant and controlled media continue to toe the party line.
After all there are people who actually believe that 19 men with box cutters could totally undo the world's foremost military power and that kerosene can melt steel.............beggars belief!

Sep 10, 2013 at 8:53 PM | Unregistered Commenterjames riffin

Have any of you seen the film 'inglorious bastards'?

Well, for those that haven't, to ensure that the Nazis couldn't slip back into normal society when sanity regained its dominance, a swastika was etched onto their foreheads.

I favour doing the same with CAGW believers and the supporters of wind turbines/ wave/ solar etc. I would like to see them branded with a turbine on their forehead, whilst stripped naked in public.

This is what they deserve.

Sep 10, 2013 at 8:55 PM | Unregistered CommenterMoglett Patrice

Ahhh - the Alaskan village of Kavilina - the source of the first "climate refugees" ..........

Sep 10, 2013 at 9:07 PM | Unregistered CommenterRobert Thomson

Ssat: (Sep 10, 2013 at 5:29 PM):

…Worthington was just some dippy bird that caught his ear.

His ear? Hmmm.

Good to see a reasonable argument against the insanity with those who are causing this very insanity: “Well, there’s another explanation, which is that they haven’t got a clue what they are actually doing.” Classic! And what a critique of Prof. Jones by John Redwood(?), as well as a good slap-down of the minister!

Shame the speakers are not labelled, though.

Barry Gardiner: tiresome recitation of numbers, with a good, long gaze into the Crystal Ball of Doom. Comes with speech carefully prepared, and has obviously not bothered listening to the previous argument – even whittles on about ocean acidification; how out of touch is this guy? Attack, JR!

… if the facts rebut it, so much the worse for the facts!

O, Science, your death is so long and suffering…

Wilson starts well (“…climate leakage…”!), but fades towards the end.

And that oaf with the yellow spotty tie has not been listening: “…there are those who repudiate that climate change is happening…” No-one did, you twit!

Pesadia (Sep 10, 2013 at 7:43 PM):

Could not agree with you more.

Had to admit, that spotty-tied buffoon eventually drove me to switch off; maybe more sense was spoken later.

Let me repeat: ALL human progress has been by individual effort; NONE has been by government policy.

Sep 10, 2013 at 9:12 PM | Unregistered CommenterRadical Rodent

Bob Ward was in the Independent (the Graun must have said no):

Cameron is at a turning point on climate change
Either he stands with sceptics in his own party, or sides with the the scientific community

David Cameron will face another challenge to his authority and credibility as a world leader today when Conservative MPs call for the UK to abandon its targets for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

A classic Ward move: the debate divides between science and the Dark Forces of 'Ideology':

If the Prime Minister does allow the UK’s climate change policies to be based on ideology instead of science, he will damage his credibility on the world stage, undermine low-carbon investment in the UK, and expose millions of households and businesses to increasing risks.

What are the 'World Stage' and the 'Scientific Community', and what is 'Low Carbon Investment' and 'Increasing Risks', if they aren't figments of Ward's ideology?

Sep 10, 2013 at 9:28 PM | Unregistered CommenterBen Pile

Radical Rodent,

"Let me repeat: ALL human progress has been by individual effort; NONE has been by government policy."

How about "the rule of law"?

Sep 10, 2013 at 9:31 PM | Unregistered CommenterJames Evans

Bryony Worthington, English graduate of privileged upbringing who wasted her limited abilities working for environmental activists organisations funded by obscenely wealthy Hedge Fund commodity speculators. The day this woman is stripped of her peerage will be a vindication of the fight for real science, and the extermination of the green fraud that has hypnotised the media, who are the ultimate criminals responsible for our monthly fuel bills.

Sep 10, 2013 at 9:33 PM | Unregistered CommenterLondon Calling

Hey RR - the spotty tie guy came good later on. He pointed out that unilateral action was pointless.

Towards the end we heard that it was not unilateral: our lead was being followed by ... Mexico ... Ethiopia ... errr.

Then we ended with Helen Lovejoy (MP for Springfield East)

Sep 10, 2013 at 9:34 PM | Unregistered CommenterJack Hughes

As always, Bob Ward finds an organ to convey his take on this

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/cameron-is-at-a-turning-point-on-climate-change-8807120.html

But it won't be Bob or MP's influencing him, but someone much closer to home:-

'Yet Samantha’s influence is political as well as personal. According to Nick Boles, a family friend and founder of the Policy Exchange think tank, she was the vital factor in her husband’s belated support for gay rights – as late as 2003, he did not support the repeal of Section 28, the clause in the Local Government Act that banned councils from promoting homosexuality. David has also credited her with pushing him towards a more eco-friendly approach: “She was Green a long time before other people,” he says. “She supported Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth right back when we first started going out with each other.” '

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/3088625/Tory-party-conference-Is-Samantha-Cameron-ready-for-the-spotlight.html

'Mrs Cameron has admitted to voting Green before she met her husband ("I think she was ... embarrassed to tell her friends she was going out with a Tory," he has said), to which some ascribe his later adoption of green politics.'

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2007/sep/28/conservatives.politics

Sep 10, 2013 at 9:42 PM | Registered CommenterPharos

"Radical Rodent,

"Let me repeat: ALL human progress has been by individual effort; NONE has been by government policy."

How about "the rule of law"?

Sep 10, 2013 at 9:31 PM | Unregistered CommenterJames Evans"

That too is individual effort and genius. The greatest advance was made by James Madison and some other individuals who created the Constitution and Bill of Rights of the US.

Sep 10, 2013 at 9:50 PM | Unregistered CommenterTheo Goodwin

"Mrs Cameron has admitted to voting Green before she met her husband..."

He promised her he'd be the greenest boyfriend ever.

Sep 10, 2013 at 9:55 PM | Unregistered CommenterBen Pile

So am I right? The lady who challenges Mr. Davies with the usual consensus garbage, when he replies and rebuts what she says with science, she does a runner?

Make this man Prime Minister.

Sep 10, 2013 at 9:57 PM | Unregistered CommenterJeremy Poynton

David Davies was magnificent as were Redwood and Lilley, Whitehead was shambolic, Bryony needs a frontal lobotomy but the worst part was the ending by Greg Barker, he should be kicked out of the Conservative party.

Sep 10, 2013 at 10:16 PM | Registered CommenterDung

Wikipedia describes the Indiana Pi Bill in 1897 as "one of the most famous attempts to establish mathematical truth by legislative fiat." The climate change act is up there with it, but perhaps more damaging.

Legislating to make energy more expensive harms the livelihoods of a lot more than 97% of the population, amounts to highly regressive taxation, and does less than nothing for the environment. In the name of sanity, god, allah, or beelzebub, it should go.

Sep 10, 2013 at 10:17 PM | Unregistered Commentermichael hart

Surely the first speaker is not the well known David Davies who lost the leadership election to Cameron. Could somebody clarify our hero's identity?

Sep 10, 2013 at 10:17 PM | Unregistered CommenterAnthony Hanwell

David T.C. Davies, Conservative MP for Monmouth

http://www.parliament.uk/biographies/commons/david-t.-c.-davies/1545

Transript of debate

http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/hansard/commons/todays-commons-debates/read/unknown/1357/

Everyone seemed to have done their homework, even if there are rebuttals for many of the points made on both sides. There wasn't anywhere near enough time to explore the issues or enough people listening to it.

Sep 10, 2013 at 10:38 PM | Unregistered CommenterTinyCO2

"Could somebody clarify our hero's identity?"

You're thinking of David Davis, not David Davies.

They could help matters, though.

Sep 10, 2013 at 10:43 PM | Unregistered CommenterBen Pile

The ghosts of the Australian Labor Party float through Westminster?

I mean, in the absence of true enlightenment, one will quite happily accept abject terror as a political motivation if it moves people the right way.

Sep 10, 2013 at 10:45 PM | Unregistered CommenterJEM

Must be very difficult for you English :-)

Try this one

http://www.david-daviesmp.co.uk/about-david

Sep 10, 2013 at 10:55 PM | Unregistered CommenterBill Williams

Many disappointments - first that it has taken so long for sense to prevail, secondly that there is no way, AT ALL, that the taxes imposed on us in the name of climate action can be repealed..... they've already been spent! including the taxes yet-to-be-paid. I'm sure we've been mortgaged for the next 100 years (+?) so the <u>scam</u> 'might' end, the expense certainly won't.

Sep 10, 2013 at 10:58 PM | Unregistered CommenterDave_G

Jack Hughes (Sep 10, 2013 at 9:34 PM):

Oh. Another one with access to the Crystal Ball of Doom. Floods in the British summer have never happened before? “The twelve warmest years on record have all come in the last 15 years…” As the records started during the Little Ice Age, and it has warmed since then, why am I not surprised? (But why am I saddened that she cannot make that simple link?) Madame: a low carbon economy and a green recovery WILL NOT HAPPEN!

Sea levels rising at 3mm a year – how can they be that accurate? I have been involved in measuring liquid levels in free-floating tanks – and the most acceptable accuracy is to 1cm (10mm), and that is in smaller tanks; larger tanks may have a range of over half a metre, and the level is generally an educated guess to 1cm. The sea-surface tends to be a bit more enthusiastic than that in tanks, so how can they be so specific about accuracy of measurement?

I must stop viewing in order to stop ranting…

Sep 10, 2013 at 11:26 PM | Unregistered CommenterRadical Rodent

Future of the climate change act? Here's a thought -

Public servants are drawing up plans to collapse 33 climate change schemes run by seven departments and eight agencies into just three bodies run by two departments under a substantial rewrite of the administration of carbon abatement schemes under the Coalition.

And -
The Climate Change Authority, which sets emissions caps, the Climate Commission, which has conducted research into climate change, and the Clean Energy Finance Corporation, which funds renewable technologies, are all slated to be abolished under the plans.

Hooroo Tim, switch off the lights on the way out.

Sep 10, 2013 at 11:41 PM | Registered CommenterGrantB

11:26 PM Radical Rodent

You might try one of these....

But that's not the point - statistics when rigorously applied (perhaps not by Phil Jones in Excel ) will let you see small stuff... Questioning the the lavishly misrepresented scaremongery twaddle has seen at least one career water measurer (hydrographic surveyor in Oz) sacked for the temerity to say "I don't see any rising sea level"....

Looks like the boot's on the other foot now down under :-)

Sep 11, 2013 at 12:09 AM | Registered Commentertomo

Great to see a real debate over the CCA.

Is this the end of consensus politics? Certainly it is going to be an election issue.

I'll add some of the finer points from the debate to a report I'm working on when Hansard's transcripts are posted.

Sep 11, 2013 at 1:06 AM | Unregistered CommenterFay Tuncay

How about "the rule of law"?

That too is individual effort and genius. The greatest advance was made by James Madison and some other individuals who created the Constitution and Bill of Rights of the US.

Ah, the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

If government provides an advance, it was only due to individual efforts. If government detracts, then that is because it is government!

What, apart from roads, education, sanitation, peace and safety did the Romans ever do for us?

Sep 11, 2013 at 1:26 AM | Unregistered CommenterMooloo

Ach. Silverblight, again?

Sep 11, 2013 at 2:15 AM | Unregistered Commenterjorgekafkazar

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