Bishop Hill Balcombe open thread
Aug 17, 2013 Energy: shale It will be interesting to see if things turn nasty in Balcombe this weekend, so I'm going to leave this thread up for anyone who has any news to impart. The weather forecast is not good, which may dampen things down somewhat, but the threat of violence from environmentalists has led to Cuadrilla suspending operations already. The thugs and their apologists in Westminster and the left-wing press have already won a major victory.
The battle over shale gas extraction feels like David Cameron's miner's strike - the threats of violence are the same, the longing to put the UK's lights out is the same, the stakes are just as high.
I'm really not sure that Cameron is up to this though.
Bishop Hill
Apparently the Times is reporting that the British Geological Survey is going to report that there are very large quantities of shale oil underneath the Weald. Paywalled story here.
Reader Comments (147)
I always thought that the state had the monopoly where ligitimate violence was concerned.
How times have changed. Max Weber will be turning in his grave.
EM
Your comment at 6.15 shows that actually - you don't "get it" ... Access to the media is blocked on this issue - the BBC running objective reportage on this issue? - that would be novel.
As for MPs and the MSM even you must acknowledge they are both spectacularly ignorant and ill informed - and simply feed on crowd behaviours.
I suspect that you have never actually campaigned for anything and that your tactical suggestions are at best naive and at worst condescending claptrap.
On the subject of policing - anybody who thinks at this stage of the game that No10 isn't calling a lot of the play in this is deluded. If they allow the excesses of these greenish bullies and twerps to pass unrestrained then we have the clearest signal to date that Cameroon has no cohones and the renewables fraud is sanctioned at the highest level.
I took an IQ test recently on the internet and scored 52.8 percentile.
At the end of that test was an invitation to take a much harder test.
I scored 87.9 percentile.
I am so dumb, I didn't not know what percentile meant. Had to look it up.
I would love to read a good definition of inteligence. Any offers
Entropic Man: "I suspect I have an above average IQ measured by comparison to the Bishop Hill average."
Perhaps you do (although I sincerely doubt it), but who cares? I know what my IQ is, but I am not sure what it proves or implies. I am sure no-one else here is interested in my IQ, only in the quality of what I post.
However, raising your IQ as an issue does suggest a sense of insecurity and possibly an inferiority complex, as well as a rather condescending view of BH posters. It suggests you have a low opinion of others here and perhaps feel that we hold different views to yourself not because we have a reasoned argument that leads us to do so, but because we are thick and of inferior intelligence. Well, if that makes you feel more comfortable you carry on thinking like that. Judging by the standard of your posts, I don't think many here are in awe of you as an intellectual heavyweight.
Don Keiller had it right DNFTT
last week the guy pulling the strings of E-Man was actually quite well informed even if he did get the wrong answers. However this week the position of troll on BH has been handed to a complete imbecile so seriously folks, lets just ignore this whacko.
While we might wish for a strongarm approach from the police, protestors would be depicted by the BBC and media as righteous heros. It is a PR contest, with public perception as the goal. Give the protestors enough rope and they will probably hang themselves in a week or two on the gallows of public opinion. Cuadrilla is playing a shrewd hand at the moment. The Balcombe villagers are already rueing what they started.
Pharos: I agree, I think Cuadrilla are playing a blinder in the long term PR. Its not cheap though, having a rig sitting on standby.
Dung: It does seem that EM is becoming more troll-like recently, with thinly disguised insults such as BH contributors having a below average IQ.
Instructions to those who are given the highest honour our organisation can offer.... troll on Bishop Hill:
Never answer questions that you know are way over your head (name and address etc).
Never admit that your IQ is less than 50, think super intelligent and go for 80 plus.
Never discuss climate change because actually none of us actually understands it so we can not give support.
Show the Thatcher type indomitable spirit and never give up no matter how much stuff you will never understand they throw at you.
Do not forget that however stupid you look, we will always value your contribution.
thinkingscientist
WOP - new toolpushers shorthand - Waiting on protestors.
Pharos: Good One! But nothing beats POOH on the ops log!
Dogs tucked up, time for me to do likewise.
SBML said:
No one is paying for the land. Or at least no one was when they first occupied the field that belongs to Sidney Farm owned by Richard Ponsford. The ReclaimThePower/NoDashForGas group illegally trespassed on the land. There are now claims that it has been sorted according to this tweet by FrackFreeSussex.
So. lets see here................ drill for oil legally and all grants properly allocated - police inform you to halt drilling, occupy farm land and requisition it illegally for squatting - that's OK then?
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/422854/Gypsies-slip-past-armed-guards-to-set-up-camp-in-Nick-Clegg-s-garden.
Who says we can't control uninvited guests.
With regards to comparing Cameron to Fatcher: Given David 'hug a husky' Cameron's actions in courting green votes and supporting green legislation any confrontation between him and anti-fracking sentiment is only ever going to be superficial. Nonsense eco legislation has infected much of government and Dave is as right-on about it as anyone.
Where were these protesters when Lancashire was being actually fracked?
One of them was on the telly being interviewed by Sky I think, happily detailing how they've stopped GM field trials, unnecessary road building and other things. How nice of him to deny the public things that might have benefited them. How generous of him to decided what is and isn't a necessary road.
Yup BH is a valuable resource for crowdsourcing the latest info on the Balcombe protests from a sceptical perspective and obviously does not preclude other action outside of this blog. But I am glad EM has a distaste for uneconomic energy generation, considering wind and solar are many times the cost of gas. But since the UK gov has subsidised gas boilers in the UK, it is clear we will be continuing to use gas for quite some time, and perhaps better to get it locally than ship it from Qatar.
Googling news from Balcombe I note the usual suspects - the BBC and independent - appear near the top of the list with articles extolling how wonderful the camp sites are. But they seems to be coy about the numbers - insisting on a steady trickle of arrivals. Earlier reports from the BBC indicated maybe 200 at the new camp, but I suspect that figure was based on rose-tinted spectacles.
An independent article has appeared here:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/balcombe-fracking-protest-widens-second-campsite-opens-as-activists-prepare-to-step-up-their-campaign-against-shale-gas-exploration-in-sussex-8772721.html
The usual pack of BS - note the photo with placard claiming 600 chemicals (oooh, not "chemicals", like dihydrogen monoxide) in fracking. I also liked the complete idiot quoted further down, describing the first camp as being a local community camp who stayed in tents. Ermmm.. why would a local community protest need to stay in tents? If they are local, surely they can just go home to sleep? Oh yes, they aren't actually local are they. The article claims there are now a thousand at the camp site but this is mentioned in passing - no real evidence. Oh and it appears that at least one protester has been detained by the authorities, although no indication why.
I also found it curious that RSPB were quoted via their "head of climate change and energy policy". Ermm, why would RSPB need one of those? Is this person (Harry Huyton) responsible for the rent seeking associated with the uneconomic renewables (aka bird choppers) on their property?
I had a look at the RSPB website, and found this interesting snippet under the heading "What We do Not Do" (which came after "What we Do"):
Many people are concerned about a wide variety of animal welfare issues. The RSPB recognises these concerns, but accepts that these issues are well catered for by charities such as the RSPCA and SSPCA. We have neither veterinary surgeons trained to deal with sick or injured birds, nor do we run bird hospitals. A few issues, such as major oil spills at sea, may have both welfare and conservation aspects. In such cases, the RSPB works to reduce both the immediate conservation impacts and the chances of such disasters being repeated.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Under Facts and Figures:
"Resources available for charitable purposes in 2010 was £94.7 million.
[snip]
A UK headquarters, three national offices and nine regional offices.
A local network of 175 local groups and more than 110 youth groups."
They also claim that they only spend 10% of their budget on overheads.
Curious about what they do with the rest, I flicked through their last Annual Report. It seemed odd to me that they don't provide on the ground services for sick and injured birds with all that dosh.
Well, one thing they do is fly Rob Sheldon, Head of International Species Recovery, around the world. He describes a trip to Myanmar to check out a program to save spoonbilled sandpipers. There are eight organisations involved in this effort (the birds are based in Russia, but migrate to Asia), and Rob just had to go to Myanmar to see for himself how things were going at that end.
Another thing they do is resettle spiders. I am not making this up. They caught a bunch of spiders and started a new colony in one of their reserves. Also,they topped up the butterfly population somewhere else. This is part of a wider strategy of turning their bird reserves into fully integrated nature reserves, quite apart from the needs of the birds.
Then they "tackle" around "700 new development proposals on behalf of nature each year." Not just birds, note. In other words, they are pure green anti-development lobbyists.
They also lobby for enlarged marine conservation areas, under the guise of protecting seabirds.
The list goes on, but you get the idea. No wonder they don't have the money for boring stuff like looking after sick and injured birds!
My mum said I had more brains in my head than most people have in their little fingers. She said my IQ was probably in the top 98 percent.
EM=BB
For those who don't know drilling terminology,
POOH = Pulled out of hole.
Sometimes followed by a wiper trip before logging.
(I am not making this stuff up!).
TS- Circulating bottoms up again
I think that central government should have a fund to pay for police action in these cases of mass law breaking. If the local police do not have to foot the bill they will be more likely to uphold the law and act to prosecut the law breakers. I think Cuadrilla should get their legal team on suing the people who by their actions have damaged a lawful business.
I'm probably as bright as most people on here, certainly brighter than my academic qualifications would suggest because I was bone idle (still am!) but I don't see that that makes me any "better" which is what EM appears to be implying in his case.
I don't see that we do ourselves any favours by comparing IQs frankly; it seems on a par with the warmists' perennial argument that you're not qualified to comment because you're not a climate scientist.
Which doesn't seem to stop them commenting regardless.
Mike Jackson~ people such as EM - greens, in other words- believe themselves mentally and morally superior to the rest of us. It is Narcissism, plain and simple.
Emphasis on Simple.
On the subject of shale oil, as mentioned in the Bishop's update.
I can quite understand why Sussex would not wish to turn itself into the Home Counties version of West Lothian but if there is a considerable volume of the stuff and it is worth harvesting then some way needs to be found to get it out of the ground and fracking would seem the obvious route.
Somebody needs to explain that leaving potential fuel supplies in the ground is not an option no matter what Caroline Lucas and pals might like to think and the only long-term question to be answered is which is the most cost-effective and environmentally friendly way of getting them out.
And since (I suspect) the residents of Balcombe are per capita larger than average users of the stuff finding the answer would be in their interests
PA music without a licence, insurance, latrine pits infracting Groundwater Regs and Environmental Permitting, food hygiene - or not. Do this on your own land to raise money for public good - Air Ambulances for example - and you will get shut down.
Plods having been significantly affected by "the cuts", I can see them sitting on their hands in order to discomfit the Gubmint, and plead lack of resources when questions get asked.
Re: the tweet:
Which could mean that the farmer has seen the sense of the sacrifice of one field being better than the sacrifice of more property, and much closer to his home and family.
Oh, dear… is my cynicism on display again? Oh – “reclaimthepower”? Surely a euphemism, but what for?
TLITB (aka Cat on a Hot Tin Roof) et al, do not get so personal with Entropic Man. I thought we on this site lauded ourselves as above ad hom attacks; if you disagree, go for the message, not the messenger.
As for intelligence, having a high IQ does not necessarily mean that you are smart – I know, as my IQ puts me in the top 1%, but I’m often humiliated by people nowhere near as high. (I’m not even too sure how to identify a troll, and often wonder if people consider me one.)
I wonder if the farmer has been bought off. As we know these green groups are awash with money.
Look at the amount they are casually spending here on facilities, must run into tens of thousands, and all highly organised. There are big organisations with staff and resources behind this "spontaneous protest" which must be obvious to the most casual observer.
if we still had investigative journalists they would be looking into who these people are, where the money comes from and what their motives are.
Further to my post above, I wouldn't be surprised if the RSPB was in there somewhere.
I wonder how many of their members and volunteers realise that protecting birds is just a cover for being a full-blown greenie NGO, where looking after birds is much less important than getting on the gravy train of Saving the Planet?
What with overseas travel, conferences, opposing development, submissions and relocating spiders and butterflies and all, out of their 94 million quid a couple of years ago, they couldn't find a single penny to spend on looking after birds that were sick or injured.
But, caring about birds is their first priority. Which is why lauding the Balcombe protest is top of their website.
Someone should take this lot down. I would, but not being a local, it wouldn't carry much weight. What makes it hard is that they have lots of well-meaning volunteers and donors who have no idea about what a bunch of parasitic shonks and hypocrites they are.
Any volunteers?
I wonder what a proper reporter would find out at Balcombe. Something like this perhaps?
Ezra Levant (http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/straighttalk/archives/2013/08/20130817-090033.html)
Hat-tip Tom Nelson
I wonder how many of those names are at Balcombe - and who paid for them to go to Canada?
Some of the people in the press pictures I'm sure I've seen before.
Yes, this is heavily organised and well financed, to some specific end. But I don't think they "just enjoy protesting", I think they are paid to do it, which explains why they know nothing about what they are protesting.
How do they power the PA, lighting and music systems? surely not a fossil fuel powered generator.
Its not only the (awful) BBC giving airtime to the nutters at Balcombe. I watched a Sky News report last Friday that had two antis present their nonsense at length with no reply of any sort in support.
Vernon E
Offer your services. Local radio and television are probably looking for pro-shale gas talking heads to balance the Greens.
I have been reflecting on the points made that posting on BH is talking to the converted and we should rather spend our time writing to the media, our MP's and other statutory bodies. Sorry, but I have already been there (esp over the illegal establishment of LNG terminals at Isle of Grain and Milford Haven in the early 2000s) and I can assure BH followers that the only results are polite letters that (a) deliberately miss the point being made and (b) close the subject to further discussion.
But, if Cuadrilla and the other developers had proper competent PR agencies they would be constantly monitoring all the primary media sources and making serious formal protests and establishing their entitlements to the right of reply. Sorry, but I repeat that they are doing themselves no favours.
"Offer your services. Local radio and television are probably looking for pro-shale gas talking heads to balance the Greens"
***
This explains much. It used to be that when there was a complex issue generating passionate views from all sides, in reporting it professional objective media would investigate, discover all facts from every direction, and then present the most accurate picture to the public for them to arrive at a view.
But now, evidently, it is who has the time and resources and will to go hunting FOR a reporter to make their pitch, assuming they can get through certain gatekeeper filters and firewalls put up to ensure that what is heard, and passed on... is what they've decided upon anyway.
Try and delve into that and you'll come up against an FOI exclusion to explain 'for the purposes of journalism, etc..'
Basically they'll look for who they want, ignore who they don't, and don't need to account for that process to anyone.
Propaganda backed by censorship. Always a winner.
John Shade
Most people on these debates are clueless about science.
A reporter once collected hundreds of signatures on a petition asking for the banning of dihydrogen monoxide.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi3erdgVVTw
Dung
Thank you, it's nice to be appreciated.
Vernon - 'results are polite letters that (a) deliberately miss the point being made and (b) close the subject to further discussion'
***
Sadly, I must agree. My MP, an affable chap, seems to have quickly assessed how his career progresses, and rocking media or party superior boats is not high on his agenda. Hence a game gets played. Lightweight nonsense like post office closures can be spun up by all into a nice sense of listening and responding and maybe even delivering a result.
Meatier fare... well, as you say, that has to be got rid of pronto and closed down. I now have an interesting collection of long patronising letters mostly comprising me being told what I asked and how the Minister understands, lessons have been learned but really no one gives a flying fig and nothing will change.
If he ever did get a spine then that's what Whips are for. It's democracy Jim, but not as the Greeks had it planned originally.
The loss of my vote untroubling in the greater scheme of things.
However...
They do like records. Boxes to tick. Stats.
So it doesn't matter if it is a dozy MP, a bent commitee, a rigged inquiry or the BBC complaints system, it's still worth politely, calmly, accurately, factually, making the point still.
a) Someone worth a damn, and with power, may one day read it
b) A small niggle in every weasel's mind is worth maintaing that maybe those files will be one day re-opened and their role reviewed.
Happy days.
'A reporter once collected hundreds of signatures on a petition asking for the banning of dihydrogen monoxide.'~ EM
And I would not be surprised to find that reporter is a 'man-made' climate-change skeptic.
Otter, I think the dihydrogren monoxide gag has been done by quite a few people, on quite a few occasions. But one of the more popular examples was by Penn and Teller, both of whom are climate sceptics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi3erdgVVTw
I imagine the crowd at Balcombe would be no different. High on ideology, low on facts.
George Phydias Mitchell (May 21, 1919 – July 26, 2013)
RIP
Selhurst Park is the Home of Crystal Palace ,Its the main London London football team for Croydon.Palace have been promoted back to the Premiership this season.
When they try to marshall and search the Palace fans they sing and chant taunting the police with
"Where the f..k were you when the riots were on".
So where the West Sussex police when there county was invaded by anarchist stopping lawfull people going about their business.
Sussex Police may use the excuse lack of resources for lack of action. The reality is that people who prepared to allow the drilling to continue maybe scared of the protesters because they are uncertain about whether they will receive support from the police.
Wasn't it the Sussex police who found the time and resources to invade Rog Tallbloke's home and take away his computers because he was suspected of being the source of the Climategate emails?
The allocation of scarce police resources is rarely an objective process.
johanna: No, that was Norfolk Constabulary unexpectedly paying Tallbloke a visit at his home in West Yorkshire in December 2011. Very strange it was but if you check Google Maps - let alone the accents - Norfolk and Yorkshire are very different places to Sussex. Meanwhile Sussex Police have said on an interesting Twitter thread kicked off by our host:
We'll have to wait and see.
Thanks, Richard, apologies for the error.
"Local radio and television are probably looking for..."
Sort of an MSM WLTM? Probably.
http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/straighttalk/archives/2013/08/20130817-090033.html
"take some pictures of the most colourful signs and costumes"
And all it takes is £4Bpa.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-23744365