Iain Dale is shocked

Iain Dale has been shocked by Ed Davey's attempts to have global warming sceptics silenced, and even tried to get the great man onto LBC radio this evening so that he could explain himself.

Davey, it seems, suddenly had a pressing appointment elsewhere.

Dale, meanwhile, is also pretty disturbed by some of the things his callers are saying to him about the slow strangulation of the school curriculum by environmentalists. Read the whole thing.

Comments

[Ben Pile]

Davey on R4 momentarily, according to Roger Tallbloke -- vs. Nigel Lawson... So much for not giving sceptics air time. Arf arf arf.

[not banned yet]

22.35 on R4 now.

[Paul]

Lawson, highly disappointing as per usual. Like an aging prize fighter he was on the ropes being punched by a younger, cockier opponent. It's no wonder people still believe in AGW when the argument is fought by the likes of Lawson. He always comes across as indecisive and what is needed is someone who seems to be on the case and intolerant of the puff that is spouted by the likes of Davey who is really a lightweight in all senses.

[tomo]

I do have to say - what on earth has Ian Dale been paying attention to?

Most primary and junior schools are riddled with deeply anti science activists. The activism is in the Guardian / BBC mould - insufferably sneery, self righteous bien pensant incurious mantra parroting halfwits. My local paper has been full of idiotic greeny teachers parading under 10s around to various events staged by national activism groups - they've even been having conclaves of activist teachers, partly subsidised by the LEA.

From what what I have seen (and heard from teaching assistants and teachers) the levels of ignorance and scaremongering are epic. That so much effort is put in to this - with such young minds is IMNSHO bordering on abuse. Secondary school... well that's different - but putting the wind up under 10s? - appalling.

[tomo]

As for Davey - he should still be in short trousers. Lawson is too cautious and too polite to some people by a country mile - although I'm happy he's there.

The banal non confrontational language, lack of appetite or preparation for a scrap, lack of mental agility in the players and the set piece nature of most of the "debates" characterises much of the pantomime of UK politics. Like him or loathe him Farage can walk and chew gum simultaneously - which is why he scares the sh1t out of so many of them.

Davey vs. Farage - yes please.

Anybody recall Dennis Healey's epic dismemberment of Caspar Weinberger a long time ago? Ten rounds - and Dennis just kept hitting him hard enough - but not too hard to knock him out. Priceless... Weinburger was incandescent but had to sit through a thorough pasting with facts.

We just get contrived confections like Dellers vs. Nurse these days - ho-hum.

[Swiss Bob]

Apologies if this is off topic but this has been bugging me for some time.

This winter / spring has been one of the coldest on record, and I'm not just talking about the UK. I know what the weather has been like in other parts of the World and it's not exactly been toasty but look what the NOAA says:

The average combined global land and ocean surface temperature for January 2013 tied with 1995 as the ninth warmest January since records began in 1880, at 0.54°C (0.97°F) above the 20th century average of 12.0°C (53.6°F).

The combined average temperature over global land and ocean surfaces for February 2013 tied with 2003 as the ninth warmest on record, at 0.57°C (1.03°F) above the 20th century average of 12.1°C (53.9°F).

The combined average temperature over global land and ocean surfaces for March 2013 tied with 2006 as the 10th warmest on record, at 0.58°C (1.04°F) above the 20th century average of 12.3°C (54.1°F).

The combined average temperature over global land and ocean surfaces for April 2013 was the 13th warmest on record, at 0.52°C (0.94°F) above the 20th century average of 13.7°C (56.7°F).

Forgetting Jan, Feb and March for one moment, take a look at their climate anomalies and events map for April:

http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/service/global/extremes/201304.gif

Everywhere it is either colder or there is more snow than usual, the US and Canada have some of the highest April snow falls on record and it's not a lot different elsewhere in the N Hemisphere, in the S Hemisphere in one place it is supposedly warmer than normal, and warm enough to raise the temperature anomaly to make this April the 13th warmest on record? Are they kidding?

Does anyone believe this 'data'?

[Messenger]

tomo
If we could get media attention paid to the AGW propaganda that has been force-fed to children for years it would be a great step on the road to recovery. The Bishop has 133 posts on it. Here is one from dated 2009:

http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2009/3/23/propaganda-in-schools.html

I remember posting some years ago a Telegraph letter (which I can't find now) written by a despairing geography teacher, similar to the one quoted by Ian Dale. I also did a guest post here:

http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2010/4/8/education-or-green-propaganda.html

and John Shade's Climate Lessons blog discloses more horrors (see sidebar)

[Morph]

I had a "stoosh" with a teacher at my son's school a few months ago over AGW. The school offered an evening of "mock" lessons - one in English (had to write a poem which I failed to do) and one in Georgraphy where wind farms were the focus.

We were told to sit on one side of the room or the other depending on if we thought they were good or bad, naturally I went on the bad side with 3 others out of 20 or so. Of course this generated evil looks from the 16 or so true believers. I found this quite strange as nobody I talk to has ever come across as a believer, maybe some embarassment was the influence ?

We were then asked why we thought they were bad - bird chopping was the first one, and the teacher had slides available explaining that more birds fly into buildings than get chopped up. Second one was that they spoil the countryside, the teacher had slides showing people like them and anyway a nuclear station is a big, ugly grey thing and represents total death etc etc.

Then it was my turn so I said they are unreliable, expensive and not a reliable power source for a modern, industrial or technological society.

She didn't have a specific slide for this (which was my intention) so she had to rely on the AGW "scare story". So we got stories on how ice caps are melting (I pointed out they weren't and we only have 30 years of reliable records anyway), melting galciers in the Himalayas (yes, even now some people still believe it) - I pointed out the error "scandal", and of course rising sea levels - I asked where the sea was rising very fast to which there was no reply.

At the moment Morph Junior has no opinion on how (if at all) AGW might affect the world. His teacher could be trying to make sure they get the "correct ansers" in the exams or (more likely from her approach) really does believe we are approaching doom. I'll let him make his own mind up and in either case get the answers "correct" on any exams.

[TinyCO2]

What Ed Davey, Iain Dale, Nigel Lawson and Swiss Bob all demonstrate is that nobody has a good grasp on climate science. It’s like fog, just when you think it’s solidifying it thins and blows away. It’s the real and bemusing scandal. I’m like Bob, looking at the cold northern temperatures and thinking it looks colder and wondering where the heat is that’s pushing up the global average. What would the global temperature look like if only those areas covered by 1850-1900 stations were included in the global total? Who knows? Climate science isn’t getting clearer. Just the opposite.

The only sure voices discussing AGW are those telling half truths. Clearly the warmists want to stifle debate on global warming because most of them haven’t got a clue about any of the science. I mean ANY. The best they come up with is 97% of scientists believe…mumble, mumble, cough. Well? Believe what? I’d bet a lot of money Ed Davey couldn’t outline the facts about climate and CO2. Lawson too is short on the facts to blow the likes of Davey out of the water. Those facts exist but they come with so many caveats that without slipping into exaggeration it’s hard to use them.

The media could have an important role in clarifying the science. In better years the BBC would have grasped the nettle but it shies away from the flaws in AGW and thus creates an unconvincing picture. Every editor in the land should be thinking ‘an 11 year old could make a good job of proving that the Earth isn’t flat, why can’t I simply lay out the facts about AGW?’

There can’t be a debate about AGW because the distributed knowledge of AGW isn't out of play school level.

[Peter Stroud]

Davey's proposal is disgusting. It is also worrying that any minister should say such a preposterous thing, without attracting the ire of the PM or at least his party leader. But, unfortunately they are both scientifically illiterate believers.

[kim]

The Early Bird found the worm invisibleserfscollar.com
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[David Schofield]

Lets see how the climate bill goes today. After that gets through we are well and truly f****d!

[AJ]

I don't think Lawson did too badly. Just before the end of the piece, he was saying quite forcefully how renewables would not bebuilt without the massive subsidy bribes. Davey's rejoinder was "other places pay much bigger bribes than us" or very similar - certainly included the B-word.

That that is quite important, as if he had really been on top of his brief, and/or not severely riled by Lawson's accusation of bribery, he would have ignored it or put Lawson down in some form. It may indicate that "Bribery" is exactly how it is thought of and possibly referred to within DECC. I hope that Peter Lilley and Graham Stringer pick up on that slip and don't ever let him forget it.

[Capell]

I think we're forgetting the energy supply part of this debate. We're all clear that the climate science is muddled, but it should be a far simpler matter to make a project assessment of Davey's energy policy and then to debate the way forward. The assessment can be made in terms of cost comparisons, CO2 emissions, risk (on-time delivery, international fuel price movements, political stability of supplies, etc.), perceived ancillary environmental impacts (wrecking the countryside of (a) the UK, (b) stripping large parts of the globe of forests . . .) and whatever. Then we can debate the various presentations put forward.

But I suspect Davey will want to suppress that debate as well. After all, we've already had several projections of levelised costs (PWC, CitiGroup, Gibson at IESIS) and these have been dismissed without debate. It'll be business as usual, and the windmills/biomass will be rammed down our throats at the behest of the usual lobby groups such as FoE, WWF, Greenpeace and the BBC.

[lapogus]

Messenger - here's the link to the rant by the disaffected geography teacher which is always worth repeating -

BH - Quote of the day (Nov 30 2010).

This article is the last straw. For six years I have had to bit my tongue while force-feeding this climate anthropogenic global warming nonsense into the increasingly sceptical minds of my science school learners. They all know it's a scam. I know it's a scam. They all know that we will be notionally 1010ed if we don't all toe the party line, give the "government approved" answer in the exams, fill in the approved plans, but carry on as normal. I cannot seriously go into a school next term and carry on like this.

Consequently I hereby declare that, metaphorically, the next parent, head of science, head teacher, school governor, local education authority jobsworth, central government apparatchik, or UK energy minister who tells me have to teach this climate porn to under-16s or lose my job will be kebabed on a hockey stick and fed to the polar bear packs currently massing under my window seeking warmth. And any kid who dares to submit an assignment consisting of material cut'n'pasted from these Louise Gray's WWF press releases will be spreadeagled on a stationary wind turbine in the North Sea.

I call upon all teachers to join me in this declaration, and to organise a welcome back party to all UK attendees from Cancun

Source: blog post by suffolkboy 11/30/2010 08:43 AM, on http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/copenhagen-climate-change-confe/8165769/Cancun-climate-change-summit-scientists-call-for-rationing-in-developed-world.html (p21 of comments in descending order)

Someone should email it to Iain Dale.

[lapogus]

Here's the opener from the official guidance material for teachers in Scotland on the subject of Climate Change:

"Our climate is changing. The planet is warming faster than at any time in the last 10,000 years. Global average temperatures have risen by 0.8ºC since the late 19th century, and 0.2ºC per decade over the past 25 years. Man-made greenhouse gas emissions have caused, and continue to cause, most of the observed temperature rise since the mid 20th century. Millions of tonnes of greenhouse gases are produced every day by human activity. These constant emissions into the Earth’s atmosphere continue to drive global warming.

Whether we can contain global warming to a 2ºC target will be dictated by our actions today."

source - http://www.ltscotland.org.uk/exploringclimatechange

A you would expect, total bollocks, which was probably written by someone from WWF who was seconded to LTS.

[richard verney]

Jun 4, 2013 at 9:16 AM | Capell
"...and the windmills/biomass will be rammed down our throats at the behest of the usual lobby groups such as FoE, WWF, Greenpeace and the BBC..."
///////////////////////

This is the real lobbying scam. Why do such 'pressure' groups have such influence on a democracy. Unfortunately, politicians are not willing to investigate this aspect of lobbying, and to take steps to curb their influence on governmental policy and decision making.

[toad]

http://www.carbontrust.com/news/2013/03/we-can-meet-our-low-carbon-energy-goals
CARBON TRUST REVEALED AS LOBBYIST FOR GREEN ENERGY - NO OTHER FUNCTION !
This news will come as no surprise to BH readers but why does Cameron get away with giving James Smith £44,000,000 of OUR money every year, solely for this purpose ?
In whose grubby little fingers does this money end up ?
For confirmation of the sum concerned google 'Carbon Trust - Annual Report' and scroll down to page 26.
You'll find that the sum was £127.8 million.
Cameron should have scrapped this quango, but like everything else he 'bottled' it !

[kim]

invisibleserfscollar.com
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[Paul Matthews]

Another response to Davey.
"Few are so cross as the politician who is losing an argument...."

[disko Troop]

There are so few politicians who have any kind of background other than fagging for Davey Major at Eton and joining the tree hugging club at Oxford to try and meet the hippy chicks, then on to an internship at the Guardian: Party Researcher then safe seat in the Country......We really have to get a few people with real life working experience in positions of power. If these fools vote for Yeo's insanity today there will not be a power company in the world willing to build any gas plants in the UK without guaranteed minimum payments that will make PFI look like a Tesco 2 for 1 deal. With Politicians who waffle about CCS as though it is a reality not a pipe dream, and spout cries for censorship, who take money for lobbying and get paid to promote their own interests we are in a sorry state. Happily I have a house in France, where the electricity is the third cheapest in Europe, and when I retire in 18 months I can move there and help keep the socialists in power as their lethargy and convoluted civil service makes it almost impossible to change anything for the worse or for better.

Ivor Ward

[jamspid]

A little kid gets his Climate Change Home Work

Name 10 ways you can reduce your Carbon Foot Print

1 Put the Xbox on Ebay

2 Put the Sony PlayStation on Ebay

3 Put the Samsung Galaxy Tablet on Ebay

4 Put the 19 inch LED Panasonic TV in the kids Bedroom on Ebay

5 Put the Ninetendo WII on Ebay

6 Put the Philips Mini Hifi with Ipod Dock on Ebay

7 Put the little oil filled Radiator in the corner on Ebay

7 Put the big sisters Electric Hair Curling Tongs on Ebay

8 Put the Touch Screen with Windows 8 Acer Laptop on Ebay

9 Tthe big LG 40 inch LED Hi Def Telly with the Built in Blue Ray DVD Player and the Sky Plus Box in the Lounge that Mum and Dad watch when the kids go to bed put that on Ebay

10 Get mum to use a smaller cup when she measures out her Washing liquid

and with all the money from Ebay put it towards Some Solar Panels.

PS forget the last one Mums has already put the Hotpoint Washing Machine on Ebay.

[John Shade]

Quote from the Dale article:

How chilling is that? Now, I have no evidence that what Justin says is true, but it certainly has the ring of truth about it. Can anyone enlighten us? Is this really the case? Who gave the orders? I feel a little cause coming on….

I think he is quite an influential commentator, so this is very promising.

I hope more teachers may be persuaded to share their experiences with him. There is no data I know of that comes anywhere near an assessment of this, only anecdotal reports, glimpses of biased guidance such as reported by lapogus above (9:25 AM), and of course the ill-disposed inventions of various publishers and groups with strong political and financial interests in climate alarm such as environment and development organisations and renewables companies. See the posts referred to by Messenger (7:51 AM) for pioneering work by the Bish on drawing attention to this.

I think there is scope for a relatively quick assessment using Mark Schemes published for various subjects, but perhaps especially geography, to see what kind of questions are being asked and which responses are approved. I went through a few a year or so ago, and found quite a lot of variation - including one which said it would accept any well-reasoned response - which was relatively heartening. Even better then, if some teachers would come forward and undertake that task in their various fields.

I have compiled materials on relevant curricula in various countries including the UK here and that could, I hope, provide a helpful starting point for anyone wanting to dig deeper, or in a more rigorous way.

[jamspid]

Talking about Education.

Watching the Paper Review on Channel 5 The Wright Stuff

Micheal Gove has the got an Idea for replacing the GSCE with something called the I Level.
Exams only . No Course work except Science which will be only 20% Course Work.

We need Technology Innovation to get the Country out of the Recession and the Government is trying to kill it.

[stewgreen]

- NOT FREE to listen... you have to signup to a paid subscription
- any ID Audioboo or ID on Youtube around ?

[roger]

Jun 4, 2013 at 9:28 AM | toad

Would that be the Carbon Trust that for years placed regular half and full page adverts in the MSM, promoting climate change and advocating green policies?
I cancelled my subscription to The Telegraph as their articles and leaders increasingly reflected the views of their advertising paymaster.
I don't miss it at all.

[OxygenBrief]

It is progress of a sort. Ed Davey, and through him the government, now admit that the 16-year global temperature standstill is real. He might think it is a 'false summit' but that remains to be seen.

So in a week we have Lord Stern saying the recent temperature has been 'fairly flat' and the CC minister saying there has been no change for 16 years.

Champaign corks a poppin at the GWPF I think.

I wonder what Bob or the Carbon Brief think?

[Robert Christopher]

tomo on Jun 4, 2013 at 1:27 AM

"Most primary and junior schools are riddled with deeply anti science activists."

No wonder young female humans (girls) are put off Science, with their better empathy and supporting skills leading them towards supporting parasitic Greenery in preference to the hard Sciences and Engineering.

[ThinkingScientist]

My son is now taking his GCSE exams. Over the last few years I have seen environmental propaganda and climate change in virtually all of his topics/text books including:

French - eg French comprehension passage on environmental issues, with questions to answer on pollution, litter etc
Science - all areas - fossil fuels going to run out; nuclear is "not renewable" (I recall Lomberg estimates 14,000 years supply?); climate change due to CO2; emissions; global warming; biodiversity and species extinction; loss of habitat etc etc
English - eg designing brochures for environmental projects; sustainable development (also media studies
Geography - sea level rise due to CO2; surveys about travelling to shops and car sharing; sustainable development etc etc

The only two subjects he is taking which don't seem to be pushing the environmental indoctrination line are music and maths.

The whole curriculum is infected with unfounded, naive "environmentalism". It's as though they cannot think of any other examples for them to study.

[tomo]

ThinkingScientist

phew! - it's worse than we thought :-)

But... yes - the suffocating lack of imagination and aggressive halfwitterry that results in this obsession with the great evil of what humans are doing to the planet - wholly according to the gospel of FoeWWF-Piece deserves far wider exposure. I personally am concerned that tiny minds are poisoning and warping young little growing minds.

It's time for harsh words to be wheeled out when dealing with these people - as reason and evidence do not work.

[SandyS]

Jun 4, 2013 at 10:02 AM | jamspid
Surely eBay is producing huge amounts of evil CO2 from all those servers, and shouldn't be used to make money? It's only acceptable to advertise on a postcard in the local newsagents. Much more environmentally friendly, sustainable and just better?
#TongueInCheek