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« Senator Paul on his water closet | Main | SNP hammering the Scots »

Hammer of the Scots - Josh 201

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I noticed no plans for the "dissolution of the SNP" in his post independence wish-day plans

Feb 8, 2013 at 8:42 AM | Unregistered CommenterTheBigYinJames


Feb 8, 2013 at 8:47 AM | Unregistered CommenterGrumpy Old Man

I've always found it fun teasing my SNP pals (of whom I have several) with the question, "what happens to you after independence?" The usual answer was, "we'll cross that bridge when we come to it" since in their heart of hearts they knew it was never going to happen.
Once Eck won a majority they've kind of avoided the question, but it's a valid point. If independence is the rationale for your existence what do you do when you've got it? Liquidate? Drift away? Go and join whichever of the three other main parties you would have supported in the absence? (I believe Salmond used to be Tory-inclined.)
If Scotland does become independent then it will be fun watching the SNP tear itself apart because I'm pretty sure that is what would happen sooner or later, and having seen at close quarters some of the tensions that exist in it now, my bet would be on "sooner".

Feb 8, 2013 at 8:59 AM | Registered CommenterMike Jackson

I'd have put him in a string vest.. :-)

Feb 8, 2013 at 9:03 AM | Unregistered CommenterJames P

@Jamesie P

'I'd have put him in a string vest.. :-)'

I'd have no truck with the lily-livered two-faced conniving little bastard. Cosying up to the landed classes among the Sassenachs and sticking their English windmills all over Scottish soil. We need true Scotsmen, not ersatz German invaders.

Remember Bannockburn!

Feb 8, 2013 at 9:08 AM | Unregistered CommenterRab C Nesbitt

Sorry, Rab. Nae offence!

Feb 8, 2013 at 9:34 AM | Registered Commenterjamesp

nice one josh

Feb 8, 2013 at 9:47 AM | Unregistered Commenterfenbeagle


I'm not so worried about what the SNP will do post-independence because I think and hope that the Scots won't vote for it anyway. In most polls, support for separation has historically been low, in the 20-30% range.

Feb 8, 2013 at 10:03 AM | Unregistered CommenterTheBigYinJames

Brilliant. It's funny how the adverts of "Visit Scotland" show a pristine environment unsullied by wind turbines. They have to choose their camera positions very carefully.

Feb 8, 2013 at 10:18 AM | Unregistered CommenterPhillip Bratby

To be fair, there are still large areas without them, but who knows how long that will last.

Feb 8, 2013 at 10:23 AM | Unregistered CommenterTheBigYinJames

I have often wondered why Cam-moron is so against Scottish independence. Without the overly-weighted preponderance of Scottish MPs, Labour would stand less than a cat in hell’s chance of gaining control of Wastemonster

Feb 8, 2013 at 10:43 AM | Unregistered CommenterRadical Rodent

Who would want to visit Scotland anyway?

Feb 8, 2013 at 10:57 AM | Unregistered CommenterJohn Silver

Haven't you purposefully missed the point? The forthcoming referendum isn't solely about political will. This will be a people's referendum - a democratic vote, and much as the pols seek to hijack the process, the fundamental issue is about the inalienable right to self-determination. That is the issue, Andrew.

Feb 8, 2013 at 11:15 AM | Unregistered CommenterDavid R

For a long time I have favoured independance on the basis that it would result in policies designed to suit the characteristics of Scotland rather than London, but Salmond seems to be hell bent on an independant Scotland run as if it was an urban area with high population density and shortage of land, i.e. Edinburgh.

Feb 8, 2013 at 11:20 AM | Unregistered CommenterNW

Perhaps the Scots are ahead of the game:

CEO of Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF) Michael Liebreich said that “The perception that fossil fuels are cheap and renewables are expensive is now out of date”, noting that wind farms are out-competing coal and gas in a country with “some of the world’s best fossil fuel resources”.

Feb 8, 2013 at 11:36 AM | Unregistered Commentersteveta_uk

Let's have a look again at the vexed issue of mineral resources. Or not. That's gonna scupper the Exchequer. Truth is, England and Wales cannot afford to lose Scotland. Did I mention defence of the realm? Not yet...

Feb 8, 2013 at 11:52 AM | Unregistered CommenterDavid R

We cannot afford to lose each other David R. In a global world, where manufacturing is dominated by how little you can pay people to make stuff and how few of them are lying about doing nothing, getting even smaller is ludicrous.

Feb 8, 2013 at 11:57 AM | Unregistered CommenterTheBigYinJames

They are destroying the environment to save it!

Feb 8, 2013 at 12:13 PM | Unregistered CommenterJaceF

Did Salmond ever get his tax funded jolly to the Maldives to assess rising sea levels?

Feb 8, 2013 at 12:20 PM | Unregistered CommenterJaceF

The cartoon is a good one.

Salmond and some of his key chums can be seen here in a short video clip, back in 2009: 2 mins 20 secs of delusion at the Falkirk Wheel:

More on the 2020 Group here:

In December 2009 a Group initiated by Ian Marchant, Chief Executive of SSE, with support from the Scottish Government was set up to ensure that all sectors of Scotland’s economy and civic society contribute fully to achieving Scotland’s ambitious climate change targets.

Almost three years later, the 2020 Climate Group has membership of around 127 individuals from 90 different organisations across Scotland. This membership is comprised of some of the largest businesses in Scotland, the Government, local authorities, universities, charities and SMEs.

This membership is working together across eight subgroups; waste, business engagement, public engagement, built environment, opportunities & challenges, land use & forestry, transportation and finance. The group also works in partnership with the Ministerial led Public Sector Climate Action Group to ensure close alignment of actions and activities to tackle climate change.

This kind of establishment lobby can help explain Salmond's remarkable assurance about, for example, his windfarm policy. It is as if this lobby provides a protective barrier between him and reality. Theirs is a fantasy world underpinned by superficial science, an obsession with 'carbon', and dreams for controlling society in such detail that the likes of Mao Tse-tung would have envied. They are surely part of the explanation for the incipient nightmare of high energy costs and despoiled landscapes being imposed on the Scottish people - harbingers of more state-meddling to come as their government grapples with the consequences of being detached from reality on such a scale.

Feb 8, 2013 at 12:29 PM | Unregistered CommenterJohn Shade

So Singapore does not exist then? It does and it thrives. Specialist production by firms trading within a world market does not require the existence of large states or big government. Indeed such institutions are the chief bar to worldwide economic integration. National monies are a further hindrance.

Nations do not produce and trade, nor do states or governments. Private organisations and individuals trade with all the world because not because their government has ordered or instructed them to do so but because the mutual gains to buyer and seller induces the transaction. People in England buy and sell to people in France and Germany, for example, because people in all those areas are productive and accessible and proximate (rich and close) - NOT because all are in the E.U.

Only the military need for large armies provides the justification for large populations to draft into uniform. And these days modern weapons have diminished that need.

Feb 8, 2013 at 12:34 PM | Unregistered CommenterBob Layson

Bob, that's a naive view. Yes, nations don't trade, private individuals do, but their costs are heavily dependent on the tax regimes of their hosts. And Scotland, with free university education, free NHS prescriptions, large number of people on various health-related benefits, taxation to support all this can only go one way once they are on their own.

Feb 8, 2013 at 12:39 PM | Unregistered CommenterTheBigYinJames

Almost all UK power generation has been fully funded by the taxpayer. The real problem is the energy cartel created by the Tories and supported by Labour. How much extra did the nuclear power station subsidies add to bills by the way?

Feb 8, 2013 at 12:50 PM | Unregistered CommenterJamesG

The Scots have their own pithy description which should be applied to this man...

'He's awa' with the faeries...'

Feb 8, 2013 at 1:00 PM | Unregistered CommenterDavid

It would be interesting to see Salmonds reaction to the Shetlands bid for independence or union with Norway, with whom they are far closer geographicaly and culturally, shortly after Scots independence.
That should scupper his north sea oil plans.

Feb 8, 2013 at 3:16 PM | Unregistered CommenterRoger Tolson

I suspect that one reason Salmond wants “independence” is so that he can strut his stuff as an equal with the other “leaders” of Europe. When will he realise that he will never be next to Merkel or Hollande, but shunted to the back, to mix with those from Latvia, the Czech Republic and Montenegro? Do you know their names? No, neither do I.

(BTW, despite what you may have concluded by inference, I do believe that Scottish independence will seriously weaken all in these islands; love them or loathe them, the Scots are as essential to the UK as the English, Welsh and Irish.)

Feb 8, 2013 at 3:52 PM | Unregistered CommenterRadical Rodent

Windmill output can be monitored here

As I write this the output is 0.07 GW or 1.3% of installed capacity. What a marvellous investment wind is.

Feb 8, 2013 at 10:30 PM | Unregistered CommenterSteve Jones

In Canada we have some experience with this. Quebec has been talking “sovereignty” for a long time. But the Pequistes have a lot of add-ons with it. They assume:
1. That Quebec will continue to receive transfer payments from the federal government to support provincial health care and day care.
2. That Quebec will instantly be incorporated in the North America Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).
3. That Quebec will autmatically be entitled to sovereignty over the Territory of Ungava, federal crown territory in trust to the province.
4. That Canada will remain bilingual while Quebec can convert to unilingual French.
5. That Quebec will see an increase in government revenues by separating from Canada despite the fact that Quebec has been a net receiver of federal transfer payments every year for at least the past 40 years.
6. That the boundary of Labrador will be adjusted in Quebec’s favour.
7. That Quebec will have no military obligations under either NATO or NORAD, (Canada will deal with all that).

These are just a few of the delusions that Quebec separatists have. I would be interested to see how many similar ones are shared by the SNP. My prediction is that enthusiasm for Scottish independence will wax or wane with the North Sea oil and gas reserves.

Oh, and as a cheap-shot addendum, remind me, where is it that Sean Connery lives and pays his taxes?

Feb 9, 2013 at 2:02 AM | Unregistered Commentercgh

Rope and lamp posts.....

Feb 9, 2013 at 10:02 AM | Unregistered CommenterAlecM

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