Bishop Hill Winter jolly
Dec 31, 2013 Greens The saga of the stricken Antarctic expedition continues to fascinate and intrigue. The news overnight is that all the passengers are to be evacuated by helicopter, leaving only the crew on board.
Meanwhile, Richard Tol has been noting the backgrounds of some of the researchers on board:
Ben Fisk
Ben is a PhD candidate at the Centre for Rural Emergency Medicine, Deakin University, researching rural and urban differences in traumatic brain injury outcomes.
James MacDiarmid
James trained as a Primary school teacher, with a Masters degree in Educational Leadership. He is currently completing his doctorate in educational sciences with a primary focus on the early years of both pre-school and primary students.
And so on. To be fair, there are some genuine climate scientists on board too, but with many of their fellow travellers clearly occupying the "free holiday" category the impression you get is of a carbon guzzling boondoggle rather than a research trip.
Reader Comments (251)
This Chandra fellow sounds peculiar. Those PhD-students-in-something-else are actually more dangerous on board than illiterate but experience polar sailors, who would know how to survive on their own to say the least. And yes they would be able to lend a hand too as anybody who can follow instructions.
It seems reasonable though to object when people parade their PhD studentship as something relevant when it is not. I am sure everybody will agree that it would be madness to ask a bones specialist to perform or even tag along into some open heart surgery, even if both the bones specialist and the surgeon would be MDs the same.
"Scientist" is not a passport to priesthood.
Chandra,
"If the team had instead taken along half a dozen illiterate navvies to do the donkey work, you wouldn't have batted an eyelid"
I've got just the book for you:
"Class and Colonialism in Antarctic exploration 1750-1920"
It only costs £60 apparently. Thankfully, due to an economy based on cheap energy, even those from the lowest classes should be affluent enough to save up and buy a copy.
Is it not a little surprising that some form of mini hovercraft weren't taken along? They could have nicely scooted across semi-frozen sea ice without risk to outboard propellers. Just a thought.
Cheshirered
Thay have two of these with them. They travelled 80 miles in total last week during two or three days but for some reason they cannot be used to go the remaining 6 miles.
A full time paid researcher from the trip explaining how vital his presence was: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRkmnUm71NE.
Omno said, "I am sure everybody will agree that it would be madness to ask a bones specialist to perform or even tag along into some open heart surgery, even if both the bones specialist and the surgeon would be MDs the same." I doubt you'll find anyone who, when told, "I'm sorry we don't have enough nurses available for your heart op", would chose Mrs Gravy from the canteen to assist instead of Dr Bones the orthopedic surgeon.
Also I imagine navvies would expect to be paid, whereas PhD students are free (or maybe even fee-paying). And I imagine the boat has enough crew to do the sailing.
The crew of tourists and students were fools to blindly follow their professor into the ice. They likely believed he was right just as he was with his global warming science.
ZT,
He actually uses the term "super exciting". He looks to be about twelve. And he gives us the money quote:
"If all goes well we end up and we leave this ship with a paper to be ready to be published."
Yes. Publish. That's the point of science.
Thanks for clarifying all that is wrong with this happy-camping attitude towards Antarctica.
Imagine having a heart surgery hospital in the middle of a frozen land with zero chances of moving goods from/to the rest of the world where Mrs Gravy from the canteen is also able to get most of the machinery running and in perfect order, and can literally keep the hospital running using whatever is around it.
It'd be madness not to have as many Mrs Gravy's as possible, and as many nurses and heart surgeons as possible.
The tag-along bones people wouldn't be good enough either as surgical support, or as technical/logistic support. IOW they would be dead weight.
Chandra:
"I'm sorry we don't have enough nurses available for your heart op"
So now you're saying there were no qualified Antarctic students available?
So far we have from you:
Who says so-and-so is a Marxist?
Even so, it doesn't matter if he is a Marxist
The students may or not be qualifed, but who cares? They're more worthy than a bunch of sweaty seaman.
Going on this trip is the same thing as Richard Tol doing some sight-seeing at a conference.
I wonder how often Richard has had to be rescued. Hmmm..maybe best if we don't know. :)
Good to see an Oceanographer bent over his work. Word has got out, it seems. We are going to see a lot more of this in the next few days - and a lot less about Congas and Scrabble.
Fares for the Akademik Shokalskiy may be higher than previously thought:
$16,900 to $18,900
"The prices quoted above includes all onboard ship accommodation and full catering, but does not include laundry, drinks, international/domestic flights, visas and personal travel insurance"
http://www.spiritofmawson.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/AAE_Leg2_itinerary_02.pdf
John M,
Chandra always gets to the very heart of an issue.
Either that, or he just picks at a few statements that could be seen to maybe be slightly wrong if you squint your eyes a bit and ignore a bunch of stuff that doesn't fit with the alarmist narrative.
One of those two.
Kamov KA - 27/28/32 series.
Both 28 & 32 have been sold to Chinese Navy.
Some are search & rescue, some anti--submarine & some heavy lifting.
They're heavy brutes - over 10 tons loaded, with wheels rather than floats or skis - so landing on sea ice of unknown strength may be interesting.
Commenter Joe Public posted this crash of a similar machine on the earlier thread.
John M, go on humour me, tell me how you know that Ben Maddison is a Marxist (he might be, but so far we have just Johanna's claim) and then tell me why it matters.
The oceanographer explains in his video that he could equally well be in his office in Sydney to write his paper. (Papers being the end result of research in climatology, where the truth is already well known). So, for the 'professional researcher'* this is simply an expensive writing trip.
*This term, 'professional researcher', is used here in the climatological sense, which corresponds to 'amateur activist' in all other fields.
By the way, 'assistant' in the climatological sense corresponds to 'helplessly confused imbecile' in other fields, and generally most progress is achieved with as few of these people in the room as possible.
Ben Maddison seems to be a regular visitor to Antarctica, current rip involves A group of more than 25 scientists will be on board and spend 10 days doing scientific work near Commonwealth Bay, but Dr Maddison will work on educating the other 25 guests, the paying tourists, about what happened in Antarctica more than 100 years ago and also that forgotten role of the working class crews.
ZT at 5:07
This Erik Van Sebille person is a messy g*t, just look at that cabin. He apologises for the mess by saying that they are preparing for an evacuation, nonsense. He is just a slob.
How does he create a paper from ocean temperatures, an orno "scientist" and bird numbers? Yes I know that this can be reported on but that could be done on the Woolwhich Ferry. All he is going to do is report this on some Lew paper that says it was such and such a temperature and there were so many birds. The money shot ( magic climate science) will be something along the lines of these birds are unhappy, starving, too hot, too cold or facing extinction due to Climate Change. How does he know? If only we had a good satirical TV comedy this lot would be taken apart on national TV.
@Chandra
The majority of PhD students on board would not have gained anything towards their degree if the expedition had gone as planned.
You are welcome to investigate my travels. You would find nothing untoward. In fact, I minimize time away from home.
The trip appears to be the Turneys' annual holiday. Chris Turney's son (who looks about 12) is certainly there:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/antarctica-live/2013/dec/29/antarctica-expedition-ice-wait-rescue.
Assuming his father is paying his fare that is some Christmas present!
Well, they seem to have enjoyed their New Year Party
Chandra,
I suspect humour is an alien concept for warmers.
But anyway...
http://ro.uow.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2590&context=artspapers
Obviously, the writings of a Milton Friedman desciple.
Why does it matter? Dunno, you seem to think it does.
test,
The whole family are there. Father, mother, daughter, son.
Black Dog, I heard that before Laurence Topham hurt his leg on the door he was reported as saying
John M
If Maddison isn't a Marxist then he is giving the best imitation of one I've seen. It could come down to semantics but Chandra's suggestion that we "humour" him has at least provided the first of the Hogmanay belly laughs.
Sorry, Chan (I can call you Chan, can I; it's just that you seem happy to call omnologos 'omno' so I presume it's OK), but when you "humour" us by answering some of the simple questions we put to you then we might "humour" you by answering yours.
Maybe.
This situation is truly bizarre.
Here we have a bunch of people who have managed to get themselves stranded in the Antarctic partying it up for New Years.
One of them apparently has a history of writing about the class struggle within the history of exploration, yet is blind to the fact he represents the new aristocracy, being ferried around the world at the expense and efforts of others. I pity the ships crew - the real workers that this guy undoubtedly sees himself as one of. I doubt they do.
Others have been making a great living presenting themselves as the enlightened voices of science - so much so they have convinced this group of imbeciles it would be good to pack up and head into the Antarctic without any relevant physical abilities, training or skills.
Now that things have turned ugly, all reference to 'Climate Research' has been revised from the narrative. No sense of responsibility, leadership or maturity from any of them.
I always knew these people have been living in a bubble, but this has me literally shaking my head.
I'm very grateful I'm not out there. I would be terrified given the apparent mentality and abilities of the passengers on board. This is not a group of people I would want my fate entwined with in a perilous situation.
I would not want to deal with a roadside flat tire with these people. And I do fear this is not a good situation for them. This is not over.
I do sincerely hope they all make it out of this safely, but I can't ignore yet another irony of this.
There can't be a better metaphor for the state of leadership in Western democracies right now that this group of idiots stuck in a ship, well out of their competence level, apparently oblivious to the costs, risk and impacts of their actions and utterly unable to see the reality of the awful state they have gotten everyone into.
The party must go on.
"In fact, I minimize time away from home."
My boss had the same attitude. He thought conferences were a waste of time (unless he was an invited speaker!). I would agree with that. All you have to do is walk in when a talk is going on to see people nodding off in the dark as someone is droning on over a Powerpoint. I look at the posters.
Chandra, what part of the irony do you not get? A bunch of people, anxious the world will expire because too much CO2 is emitted, emit large amounts of CO2 to go on a holiday that is thinly disguised as a scientific expedition? Funny how relaxed warmists are with hypocrisy.
Mike Jackson,
Do you suppose Maddison spent his extra free time on Hogmanay writing another paper on Hegemony?
As it is New Year's Eve, may I propose a resolution that would improve enjoyment of this blog throughout 2014?
Do not feed the tiresome troll Chandra.
You know it makes sense.
And you know he doesn't.
micaelhart,
"Black Dog, I heard that before Laurence Topham hurt his leg on the door he was reported as saying
'I am just going outside and may be some time.'"
There is a tear slowly tumbling down my cheek. Will someone please make a movie of the exploits of these gallant heroes? Perhaps Laurence Topham could be played by Bruce Willis. Or Graham Norton. Not sure.
John M at 6:03
I tried reading the link you kindly provided, I thought I was somewhere at the Guardian, or Laurie Penny land or something. Anyway a useful illustration of the mentality of this type.
Glad you liked it James. I'm not sure if it would get spotted at WUWT or JoNova's.
roger,
"Do not feed the tiresome troll Chandra."
Normally I would agree with you. Feeding trolls is not normally a good idea. But Chandra is special. His comments are so off the mark that they make my day. Why would you try to silence that? I wish he'd comment more often.
Michaelhart and James Evans
Great stuff fellas, good entertainment. Can others keep this up?
This thread is hot.
More damning than previously thought:
http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/31/rescue-effort-for-trapped-antarctic-voyage-disrupts-serious-science/
Revkin, nevertheless, persists with the meme that "giving fodder to skeptics" is bad. It is a supremely mistaken notion.
On Twitter, during the initial days, when the only available material was propagandist pap from Messrs Chris Turney, Alok Jha et al, what with their 'vines' and other similar bs, it was the sceptical (and cynical) commenters who started asking funny questions. Questions the media shyed away from, given the strong narrative force-field surrounding the Akademik Shokalskiy.
@Chandra: if this is truly a "scientific expedition", please explain the following:
1. Why use a vessel that prides/advertises itself as providing a luxury environment complete with bar, cinema, sauna, …?
2. Why does the head of the expedition have his family, including underage children, on board?
3. Why are there journalists on board? What scientific purpose do they serve?
4. Why are there tourists on board? What scientific purpose do they serve?
5. Where are the research goals posted?
Must read - Andy Revkin of the New York Times:
"Rescue Efforts for Trapped Antarctic Voyage Disrupt Serious Science"
http://dotearth.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/31/rescue-effort-for-trapped-antarctic-voyage-disrupts-serious-science/?_r=0
"Early this morning, I received an e-mail message from one of many polar scientists whose important and costly field research in Antarctica has been seriously disrupted by the diversion of icebreakers to try to evacuate the journalists, tourists, crew and scientists on an unessential “expedition” aboard a chartered Russian ship."
Pierre Gosselin has posted an excellent, interesting and damning critique of the Australasian Antarctic Expedition. I was interested in his link to the AAE's donation website. An extract:
Good - perhaps Geoff Chambers will be right after all (see his post here at 8:29 this morning).
Thanks Jud at 6:17 PM
It would be cruel and callous to point fun at these people if it weren’t for the fact that mullti trillion pound decisions that will make us all poorer are based on the word of climate scientists - billed as seers who can foresee the future, but shown up here as being keen outdoor types looking for a career which allows them to combine their interest in sailing, mountaineering, etc with a bit of light science involving scraping the fat off a seal’s bottom.
The true imbeciles are not these canny careerists, but the likes of the Eds Davey and Miliband who believe their nonsense - and us, for financing it.
From the Andy Revkin link provided by James Evans:
"Tourist ship"!
This was written by a scientist at a base in Antarctica.
I guess he hasn't had a chance to read Chandra's comments.
(Apologies shub. You already posted the Revkin thingy.)
97% of climate models predict they will be out in no time.
geoffchambers,
"It would be cruel and callous to point fun at these people if it weren’t for the fact that mullti trillion pound decisions that will make us all poorer are based on the word of climate scientists - billed as seers who can foresee the future, but shown up here as being keen outdoor types looking for a career which allows them to combine their interest in sailing, mountaineering, etc with a bit of light science involving scraping the fat off a seal’s bottom."
Worth repeating.
BTW, the medic on board seems to be a rather brilliant photographer:
http://www.footloosefotography.com/
No sarcasm here - his stuff looks really exceptional to me.
He must be making a few quid from this trip. Almost all the photos of the trip that are online are credited to him.
From the BBC
I can't bring myself to watch the video. That is cruel and unusual punishment in my book.
A carbon guzzling boondoggle?
Seems to me that it is mostly in the form of C2H5OH...aka booze.
They are really the best present a sceptic would wish for, so I raise a (strictly non-alcoholic) toast to the Antarctic Turkeys. May their childish antics continue to entertain the world and draw attention to the ice that isn't there and their theory that doesn't work.
To the Turkeys!
K, I don't remember claiming that it was truly a "scientific expedition". I'm more interested in why someone is characterized as a Marxist and why it matters. Indeed the whole IPCC has been labelled such somewhere above. It makes me wonder whether anyone here knows anything about Marx or Marxism.
Your questions are a bit pointless. The expedition webpage says,
So there you have it, science, adventure and communication. So for that you need scientists, adventurers (presumably some of the tourists and PhD students might qualify) and communicators (your journalists and others). All this blather about whether they are in the right field is just envy dressed up as high principle.Richard Tol, I'm not in the slightest bit interested in your travels and I would not suggest there is anything untoward. All I'm saying is that there is bound to be some, it is generally quite pleasant and to someone on a normal job it too would seem like a free holiday.
Chandra,
John M already summarised your views:
"Who says so-and-so is a Marxist?
Even so, it doesn't matter if he is a Marxist
The students may or not be qualifed, but who cares? They're more worthy than a bunch of sweaty seaman.
Going on this trip is the same thing as Richard Tol doing some sight-seeing at a conference."
No point in just repeating them. Come back with some new comedy stylings. Or we'll get bored.
Chandra Says
Richard Tol, there are 15 scientists or more in the science team, who look quite well qualified to me, and you and the Bishop are complaining because you spotted as few PhD students who don't meet your standards. I don't know exactly what these people you object to will be doing but I guess they will be lending a hand wherever possible.
and
K, I don't remember claiming that it was truly a "scientific expedition".
So the scientific team aren't taking part in truly scientific expedition?
Alternatively he is on difficult ground so is changing to I'm more interested in why someone is characterized as a Marxist and why it matters. As being a Marxist is traditionally something people keep quiet about he may feel on safer ground?