Bishop Hill Our Friends dyspeptic
Nov 6, 2013 Energy: gas 
There has been another mindboggling intervention in the battle to prevent Dart Energy's attempts to bring some much-needed economic good cheer to central Scotland. This time, Friends of the Earth seem to have been able to place an article in the local paper, the Stirling Observer, and it bears all the hallmarks of their usual standards of 'accuracy' and 'integrity'.
An energy company with controversial plans to extract gas from deep underground has a licence to drill under Wallace Monument.
Friends of the Earth are calling on residents to declare Stirling an “unconventional gas free zone” to prevent coal-bed methane extraction in any part of the city.
Dart Energy is at the centre of a public inquiry over its plans for 22 new bore holes at a site in Airth, where it has already carried out some work.
The article goes on to say that 'not enough is known about the risks of disturbing potentially toxic water and gases from deep underground, which could seep into the soil and water table, and also lead to climate change'.
Erm, except that coalbed methane has been exploited for decades and the US is producing near 2 trillion cubic feet per year. And there is already a UK site in commercial production. With no apparent problems.
No wonder the local media is on its last legs.
Reader Comments (45)
She could move up to the local Mums and Toddlers group after that, if she wanted some real expertise.
Gary Numan reference duly noted.
Would these be the same environmentalists that see no potential problems with pumping millions of tons of CO2 into deep rock. Yes, I think it is.
Perhaps "Friends" of the Earth could call on residents to declare Stirling a “gas free zone” to prevent the release of greenhouse gases CO2 & water vapour from the products of combustion of their conventional gas appliances?
Someone should remind FoE how many extra unnecessary deaths occur each year, because of the extra subsidies paid to renewables-generators.
Friends of the Earth or enemies of the people?
Dart Energy MUST be afforded the right to reply.......
Is there really a plan to drill under the Wallace Monument? I'd guess that if there was and the monument was still standing afterwards then it may be good test-case for those conditioned to the scare, and offer them some form of reality.
"unconventional gas free zone": Ask the locals to live without gas for a day or two, if they're happy with that then they do not require gas! Stirling can then be a totally gas free zone.
"potentially toxic water and gases from deep underground". "toxic water"; would that be water that had no fluoride in it one wonders? If there is any 'toxic water' then discovering it may be a good thing anyway, under controlled conditions, and may eleviate it migrating up/down to the water table.
If depths are shallow then the gases, (which is what it's all about), will be relatively easy to manage from a pressure POV.
"…lead to climate change": Only climate change will lead to climate change, us flees currently inhabiting this VERY large planet are only a temporary inconvenience to it....get over yourselves, the planet will certainly get over us! Meanwhile use what is made available to you to make life more comfortable and keep some sort of forward movement!
Maybe asking the local populous if they would be happy to live on only locally produced power, would open some eyes? After explaining to them what that would actually mean to them.
It does sound like the readers from Stirling will get a pre-conditioned-media-degree-journalist talking to pre-conditioned-tree-huggers, that think the whole thing is for fun and attention, as a lead article in their local paper. Maybe sending over a Journalist that claimed credentials pre~1980 may get a worthy story?
Hardly scientific Bish. just my thoughts.
so the companies that supply drinking water in Scotland are not regulated and carry out no checks on contamination of the water they supply?
I've said it before and I've said it again:
We were drilling and fracking around Airth 20 years ago. Where were all these people then?
Because, I mean, if the consequences were/are so horrendous, surely the intrepid reporters of the Stirling Observer would have been running stories for years now. Or could it be that they have few actual journalists and are simply re-printing FOE press releases and unquestioned claims by activist loonies? What a terrible state our news media is in. Of course, I'm being facetious -nobody can afford "intrepid reporters" any more it seems, hence the swamping of our media by emotional statements by activists rather than complicated explanations.
Do any of them realise that without CBM (aka "firedamp") extraction by the likes of Dart, they are in much *more* danger of random explosions?
Not to mention that , according to the DECC, natural venting of CBM into the atmosphere is " destructive to the environment because methane is an important greenhouse gas, 23 times more powerful (whatever that means) than carbon dioxide on a mass basis" - so Dart is also reducing potential Greenhouse Gas emissions.
We live in the 'Age of Incompetence'.
Rather, we live in an age that affords some people in certain parts of the world to deliberatively pee on a bowl and call it soup.
What do you think is the vision Friends of the Earth have for the future, even short-term? Is it really a gas-free society, or is it a gas-free society where their Friends live? Meanwhile, their Friends use the oil from Nigeria for their needs.
If Greenpeace, the Sierra Club, FoE win their anti-fossil fuel fight, they will win only where they are fighting - in the Western cultured, temperate North (and Australia and New Zealand). The non-environmentalist's planet will still be producing the fossil fuels that the eco-greens use. So there will be a transfer of wealth while the educated liberal live well and, locally, "green". Is this the acceptable end? Offset the problem, have a clean garden and living room, send a care package to Africa.
The fantasy world doesn't take much questioning to fall apart. The rationalizations that go on must make their heads spin, or it is really just an ideological exercise that needs not have a physical outcome. Just lets the proponents feel they are fighting the good fight, and then go off for a beer at the nearest pub.
We need to use greenies as biomass.
The Wallace Monument always put a wind mill on it
Excellent points made here already, good points for letters to the editor in fact. Some local lurkers might like to try firing off one or two. Steve Jones point is pithy and to the point.
Every little helps
Doug Proctor: Helpful thought experiment. I'm sure you're right that we have to find a way for the greenies to feel that they are 'fighting the good fight' but without the deleterious effects. Back in May 2011 I coined the phrase 'going green without killing people'. I don't know what it means yet. But there has to be really deep change of heart and mind somehow. It won't do to make the comment of 6:48 AM.
Not to mention that such storage requires serious fracturing, and the "deep rock" used for CCS is not necessarily any deeper than the rock where shale gas is found in the UK.
None of these inconsistencies are ever remarked upon by the press.
Bish , for accuracy's sake, there is a 'd' in mind-boggling.
[Thanks -done. BH]
What do these dishonest misanthropes imagine would be the worst possible outcome of drilling a 6 inch diameter hole under the Wallace Monument or any other famous landmark? Perhaps the citizens of Stirling should declare Stirlingshire a water supply and sewerage pipe free zone.
"
Jeef says:
November 6, 2013 at 9:36 pm
I am sure alarmists think they are saving the world.
I am equally sure none of them know what from. Blind zealotry is a terrible curse."
From http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/11/06/global-warming-alarmists-are-overrun-by-the-facts/#more-96921
Seems to fit.
Meanwhile here in Australia we are near the end of the annual Spring Carnival with horse races like the Melbourne Cup. There was some tension that led to our news media reporting that a woman was punched near the mounting yard.
Oh for the old days before PC, when the official Gazetteer here had a location named "Dripping Mickey Waterhole".
I'd be careful about frakking that.
Also from Down Under where all good drilling happens - I'm reluctant to advertise this but it is good for a laugh.
http://theconversation.com/look-out-for-that-turbine-climate-sceptics-are-the-real-chicken-littles-19873
Yes, you guessed it. Professor Lewandowsky from Bristol University has written again, this time under the provocative header "Look out for that turbine. Climate Sceptics are the real chicken littles". I can't place the header in context - the joke eludes me.
This is "chicken feed" compared with this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24834697
No chance of UK jumping off the road to the cliff. Poor Osborne. Too many influential individuals and organisations lined up against him and the other conservative MPs who can see the idiocy of what we are doing to our energy prospects.
If greenhouses never did any good they would never have been invented.
So Ann Graham thinks she could learn about coal bed methane from friends of the Earth. From someone who lives in the Stirling area I despair. This woman is clearly not fit to hold office, even as a community councillor if she thinks that's where she should be getting her information from. Oh the level of stupidity.
Does she not know coal bed methane extraction is a decades old technology, even in this country.
The mention of drilling under the Wallace Monument reminded me that there was something in a newspaper recently about a local council in London passing a resolution banning drilling for shale gas in their municipality. The councillors did not like the idea of tunnels going underneath buildings, roads etc. It seemed to escape their notice that there are already some quite big tunnels in London. In fact trains are driven through some of them.
Perhaps I'm doing anti-fracking protestors an injustice. Are small tunnels a few thousand feet below the surface more of a hazard than tunnels for trains or sewage, etc. near the surface?
Why don't we just allow lefties to flutter in ever decreasing circles to negatively fracc the exit of their alimentary system?
Friends of the Earth, Greenpeace and other green organisations continue to 'fight dirty.' Yet politicians listen to them as if they were experts: rather than a load of propagandists. Unless national government uses its powers, to ensure all potential sources of energy are exploited; the propagandists will use every trick to persuade local government to follow their twisted paths. To the detriment of our industrial base, and the public's welfare.
Well we all know what happened when they mined coal in NE England. The whole of the North Sea and half the North Atlantic disappeared down the hole, never to be seen again. It even affected the earth's orbit!
Who are these Fiends of the Earth? I think Richard Drake is being too optimistic.
1. some one please post a comment on the actual newspaper page
2. You know who finances Friends of the Earth don't you ? ..Yes You !
a substantial amount of their money comes from the EU The EU gives them money, which they then use to lobby the EU etc.
3. If the methane is left ..wouldn't it make it's way into the atmosphere ..and isn't methane a greenhouse gas worse than CO2 ?
Some one please complain about Harrabin's latest article
1. Super loaded headline - Wavering on UK climate policy 'not justified'
...can you imagine an article is headlined - "Wavering on voting UKIP 'not justified' ?
2. A photo of steam cooling towers photoshopped so much it's practically black
..and the text is pure #ClimateScarePorn
3. His byline is mis-spelt "Environment analyst" should be "Environment propagandist"
John B
I was a Community Councillor for 20 years including spells as both chairman and planning officer. If I still lived in the UK I would be trying to contact Ms Graham to offer here some advice about balance.
She thinks she can learn about coal-bed methane from FoE because they are claiming to be able to give her the facts, namely that people like Dart don't care about the environment and that their only concern is to make money without any regard to the wishes or well-being of local people. FoE on the other hand, as the name implies, are in favour of looking after the environment and ..... etc., etc.
I'm not sure what "office" you think Ms Graham holds since community councils in Scotland have no statutory powers though they do have the right to be consulted on planning matters and their function is mainly to represent the views of their community to the local authority. If Riverside is anything like my council was it will be lucky if it can fill all its seats so Ms Graham is a volunteer doing her bit and her best.
Like 99% of the population she sees no reason to doubt what FoE tell her since she knows nothing about coal-bed methane (nor did I ten years ago), is likely to be concerned at the thought of mining underneath the Wallace Monument (as would/will many other people in the area) and is equally likely to be concerned at threats to the local water table and the "release" of potentially explosive gases (as indeed would I).
If someone who appears to have some expertise in this area starts to talk about "toxic water" and things seeping into the soil and the water table she is almost obliged to take notice or be accused of being genuinely "unfit" by not obtaining all the information she can from whatever source is available.
On the other hand she may have degrees in chemistry and geology (not unheard of in the Stirling area) and is keeping her powder dry until FoE turn up at a meeting and make fools of themselves. She is also probably doing her job as the council secretary by responding to a local press request for a comment and giving a reasonably non-committal reply — as I would have done in her position.
So, instead of berating the woman for being "stupid", perhaps you could do something positive to rectify the deficiency in her knowledge.
1. There must be some people in the Riverside CC area who know more about this subject than FoE. Find them and make sure they attend the meeting — all CC meetings are open to the public.
2. If Riverside is, as it may well be, short of members, go and join it yourself if you live in its area or find a sympathetic soul who will.
3. Make absolutely 100% sure of the facts both about what Dart are up to and about what FoE are saying. They will not expect a sensible well-informed and above all accurate challenge to their eco-drivel.
4. Find a local expert to make the case against FoE's claims (one that will command local respect) and get him/her to write to Ms Graham outlining the case and asking to be allowed to put that case to the meeting with FoE. If he lives in the Riverside CC area, so much the better.
I know we have several contributors here who are local to the Stirling area — our host among them. This is a heaven-sent opportunity to demolish FoE's arguments, the more so because, as we all see from the quotes above, they have assumed a level of ignorance that means they can spout any old nonsense and get away with it.
Get stuck in and make sure the press know about it. There is a virtually open goal here at the very least to teach one group of eco-fascists that whatever the rights or wrongs of their case, lying is not to be tolerated.
Re - Mike Jackson
What he said.
There realy is no limit to the lunacy of these people...
The interesting thing to wonder about, as you nicely point out, is why media chooses to allow the enviro-wacks, with their track record of deception,to effectively get into print what the enviro's falsely without critical review.
Mike Jackson: Thank you.
I'm guessing it would be too much to hope that a reporter would have done their research and realised there is no coal and therefore no reason to drill under the Wallace Monument, or much of Stirling, for that matter. It is simply another piece of classic nonsense designed by Friends of the Earth to whip the locals into a frenzy - hugely disrespectful to the local community they claim to represent and hopefully destined to backfire on FoE once the community council realises it has been duped into looking a little silly.
@A Local Geololgist
I had my morning coffee in central Stirling today and am happy to report that signs of the locals having been whipped into a frenzy were few and far between.
I also recalled that the grandly titled 'Burghmuir Retail Park' (=a new branch of Waitrose) is situated almost exactly where the 'Stirling Miners Welfare' club was until a few years ago. And that local villages like Plean and Fallin still have such clubs extant. There was a long history of mining in the area and true locals are unlikely to be fazed by such developments.
However, should one cross the Forth into the alien territory of Bridge of Allan, one will encounter 'Stirling University', with a transient population of soft-headed and impressionable youths and academics..No doubt they will be whipping and frenzying with the best.
But since few take much notice of their adolescent ravings, I think we may have a storm in a teacup rather than a real mass movement.
Latimer,
I do hope you are right, but hasn't stopped Dart's actual development located right in the heart of ex-mining country around Airth being bogged down in planning appeals due to an 'unprecedented number of objections'. It may not be a mass movement but a little FoE scaremongering in conjunction with an ill informed but vocal minority is enough to send chill's up the spine (if they have one at all) of most local politicians.
Someone should show the community council the pictures from Balcombe of what Cuadrilla left behind and what the greenies left behind (no doubt FoE was among them) so that they can see who cares about the environment.
Latimer
Is the center of Denny still like a third world shanty town, or has the Beauly-Denny transmission line bringing all that green power from hugely productive wind facilities also brought full employment and wealth to that part of the Central Region?
SandyS
In a previous incarnation it was my lot to try to sell soap and related products to the co-ops of such places as Denny (along with Dunipace), Bonnybridge, and Shotts (not forgetting Dykehead). Also to Greengairs, Skinflats and other places with equally fascinating names.
The mining industry was well in decline by that time and dereliction abounded. I haven't been back to that area since the late 70s but if it is still as it was then there are several generations of politicians who deserve to be put up against a wall and shot.
Whether anyone else would have been any better I wouldn't know but what I saw more than confirmed my belief that, in central Scotland at least, Labour was not the party of the working man, or indeed of anyone but itself.
Mike Jackson
My brother taught at Denny High School for 20+ years retiring about 4 years ago, from what he says things are still going down hill in Denny. But whilst the population continue to vote socialist/nationalist then I'm not sure that things will improve.
O/T
I used to regard Plean as the Bermuda Triangle of Central Scotland, in the early 70s I had a job in Bathgate so commuted through Plean after a couple breakdowns, fan belt and alternator, I got a puncture on a Monday and before I could get it repaired I had another later in the same week and required AA assistance. After that I went by the Hillfoots which was longer but more pleasant and safer.
Mike Jackson, as so often, shows a much better grasp of political realities than some of the more overheated comments. Politicians at all levels are rarely experts - they are those who civic minded enough to represent their local communities. It is quite right that they listen to various points of view. The real failures are - in my view - the media who simply recycle the green loonies' claims without checking or apparently any intellectual curiosity whatsoever. What do they think the role of journalists should be, for goodness sake.
Good lord. Skinflats gets another mention in this forum.
I must ask yet again: CSG or CBM drilling has been going on around Airth on and off since at least 20 years ago. Where was the "plethora of objections" then?
The news media has few resources these days and no longer attracts bright people. "Critical review" is just not on their agenda.
This makes them ideal targets for activists who can write a press release or make a Facebook post. You'd be shocked to see how many local news articles are actually harvested from social media.
A colleague of mine once posted a comment below a BBC news article. Two days later it appeared as a "letter" in the local paper, with her name on it but they had not contacted her in any way. That is what the media is reduced to.