Wednesday
Oct092013
by 
Bishop Hill
Bishop Hill Deben before the ECC
Oct 9, 2013 Climate: IPCC Lord Deben appeared before the Science and Technology Committee this morning, in a hearing that was frankly a waste of everyone's time. His later appearance before the Energy and CLimate Change Committee was much better, particularly the early exchanges in which Peter Lilley asked Lord D about climate sensitivity. There was some pretty amusing wriggling by the witness.
Reader Comments (40)
Peter L. gave a good try, but never really scored. It was a rather awkwardly phrased query I thought. The better question would have been one concerning the collapse of the models, which gets to the heart of things much better imvho. Note the hand waving and appeal to authority in answer.
Where can we see a transcript?
It's all over folks. Lord Debden says he is a true sceptic. We can never get over that! I'm therefore no longer interested in climate science cause the good Lord will speak for me. As for myself, my daughter and I are having beefburgers for dinner, and I don't care if she want's to eat them or not.
The rattle of a rattled man
Lord Deben sounds like he supports wait and see.
I refuse to eat that man's burger.
I agree with pokerguy
For a guy with two brains Lilley missed opportunity after opportunity to ask tough questions but instead pursued his initial and as stated by pokerguy "badly phrased" question. The cheek of Deben asking Lilley for empirical evidence that climate sensitivity (stupid measure anyway) was lower than IPCC assessments! Why oh why did Lilley not ask what empirical evidence there was to support the IPCC view?
Well Peter Lilley, tried but Deben is slippery little eel or he wouldn't still be earning a wage. His whole act consisted of just putting his faith in the claims of other people. So even if they're wrong it's not his responsibility.
Dung:
It was David Willetts who was "two brains" not Lilley!
I read about it in The Telegraph
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/10366387/Science-in-favour-of-climate-change-akin-to-evidence-linking-smoking-to-cancer.html
It is disturbing that the evidence against CAGW cannot get through to those that matter (poiticians) because of the "fully paid up" scientists. I think that they are actually sitting on a time bomb. If the "pause" or perhaps even the slight decline in global temperatures continue and the lights go out due to a severe winter accompanied by a high pressure area producing no wind perhaps the moment of truth will arrive. At this point most people do not appear to be too concerned but if they are forced to endure power cuts after their power bills have received another push upwards maybe then there will be a scenario where the Lord Debens of this world will have a lot of explaining to do. Personally I would not like then to be a senior scientist in The MET Office.
From the evidence of the perpetual smirk on his face he found it amusing anyway.
I agree with most of the above comments. It seems most are concerned with 'delicate phrasing of enquiry'. Given the stakes, it would be better to cut to the chase and ask point-blank if the green investment is worth the shocks to economy, given the current evidence.
Transcript as requested:
Deben: It's no good asking me for a scientific opinion, I am not a scientist; it is no good telling me your opinion, you are not a scientist; if you are a scientist, you are not a climatologist; I shall continue to believe what the good guys in IPCC tell me to believe, and when they tell me to change my belief I shall do so.
That's pretty much what I heard him say. But then again, he could have been talking about his religious faith.
The 'burger king ' is an interesting example of the 'magic' of green wash . An old style tory that uses his poltical power to help himself and his rich mates get even richer . He is the very type of person you expect the liberal press to go after for his clear conflict of interest. But by the application of 'green wash ' he comes out brighter than bright and is now a hero of that same liberal press .
Truly it can be said that in the name of ‘the cause ‘ all things are justified , even the admiring of old school corrupt Tory by the left .
I couldn't get to the end, but I saw some cause for optimism. The bald-headed northern MP, while saying he had leant towards the Deben view, saw through his evasiveness to Lilley's "what evidence would it take?" question. He made that specific - i.e. would a 30-year pause change Deben's view - and will have noted that Deben wouldn't give him an answer either. That's one more MP who will harbour, and perhaps promulgate, doubts on the CAGW narrative.
Deben and Barker are getting loads of press today with their false analogies between climate and smoking and absurd claim that the BBC gives too much time to sceptics.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/10367061/BBC-gives-too-much-weight-to-climate-sceptics-minister-claims.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change/lord-deben-climate-change-science-is-akin-to-evidence-linking-cigarettes-to-cancer-8869266.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/10366387/Science-in-favour-of-climate-change-akin-to-evidence-linking-smoking-to-cancer.html
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/oct/09/greg-barker-bbc-climate-change-sceptics
David Jones
I stand corrected and I also stand in the corner wearing a conical hat displaying a well earned large D.
I knew I shouldn't but I did...I watched it. What an 'orrible little man Gummer/Deben is. Who on earth gave him that job?
He and Lilley don't seem to like each other do they!
So it's taken 6 years to produce AR5, now he and his team are going to go away and do a report on the report. Ye Gods.
Look, all you need is forecast v actuals. Thousands of businesses do it as a matter of routine every month. It's not hard. Despite the IPCC trying to obscure this simple truth Mr McIntyre has helpfully done the work for you.
Forecast v Actuals
So when Gummer disingenuously says he's a sceptic and if the facts say something else he'll change his mind, all he has to do is click on that link and get back to us. Perhaps with that in mind the Bish could send it to him for comment.
And anyone on the panel who thinks he is capable of a neutral view of the science need only spend 5 minutes reading his Twitter feed
Gummer twits
Wow Lord Deben is even slimier than I thought. He managed to avoid answering any real questions. I need a shower now.
He would be happy if the world wasn't heating up - hardly think of all the money he would lose form his current business interests!!!!!
We have had the smoking slander for years, presumably trying to use it more now is a measure of desperation.
Dung:
I was just being pedantic. Please rejoin the class and give us your valued opinions!
Deben is named after the river in Suffolk where I grew up. It's a disgrace for him to sully the name of the beautiful Deben. It's where the Sutton Hoo treasure was found.
The Telegraph online front news page introductory paragraph to the Barker comments on smoking and sceptics says there are 80 comments. Where are they?
www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/10366387/Science-in-favour-of-climate-change-akin-to-evidence-linking-smoking-to-cancer.html
David Jones the ‘burger king’ has got big house just outside Woodbridge , with views of the Deben . Although no sign of any wind farm or solar panels , perhaps his ‘faith ‘ in renewable does not extend to actual trusting it himself, just racking in the cash from pushing it to others.
Clearly Lord Deben doesn't know his AR5 from his elbow. Cordelia throw another beefburger on the BBQ
That mug shot in the Telegraph has him wearing a right superior fish face. (Ad hom? Probably...)
However the arrogance of his approach - effectively yet another attempt to attack the credibility of anyone expressing opposing views and better still to suppress them altogether, deserves all the opprobrium it will generate.
Meanwhile, the models continue to diverge from observations, polar ice grows and the Pause continues unabated, and no, he hasn't got a worthwhile answer to those tricky little connundrums.
Painful to watch to watch/
I know Peter Lilley is one of the good guys but he needs to be coached
to ask searching questions.
These committees meetings are a cake walk for Gummer & co.
Very painful.
I could never understand why Drebin was given such stature when just Gummer, MP – he struck me as remarkably useless, even then. That he should now be spreading his bile and increasing his fortune at the expense of the tax-payer on the back of highly-dubious science only goes to confirm my views of him.
That the AGWist community should trundle him out as a champion goes to show how defeated they really are. It is a shame that it will take more years – and many, many more millions of dollars – before the rest of the world actually wakes up to what is happening.
I see Deben in the image of Troy McClure the actor in the Simpsons.
Hi, I'm John Deben.
You may remember me from political events such as feeding my daughter potentially unsafe beef, blubbing when Margaret was being knifed and claiming thousands of pounds for gardening,
Well dear taxpayer, I'm not done yet.
I want hundreds of thousands for heading up a waste of money publically funded entity which I can use to channel cash to my business interests and those of my friends - hey Tim, come over here and say Hi to the nice folks....
...Tim, that's not nice.
Anyway folks, if you could just send your cheques in now otherwise I might just call you names without foundation on Twitter (which is of course maintained by my taxpayer funded Assistant - Al).
Love John, sorry, I mean Troy...
Just to point out my previous post is intended as sarc and not an accusation of anything...
All of this is a waste of time. Deben and the like will never change their minds and our only future with them in charge is ruin..
.
The way to change it is political. UKIP would revoke the Climate Change Act and chuck these rascals out.
So what about this one from EU to add insult to injury?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/fracking/10367432/EU-red-tape-threatens-future-of-fracking.html
"Later this year, the European Commission is expected to propose tough regulations for fracking amid fears in Brussels that cheap shale gas could wipe out heavily subsidised and less efficient renewable energies such as wind farms.
Jos Delbeke, the director-general of the commission’s “climate action” department, hinted that the EU would use the regulations to defend renewable energy against cheaper shale gas.
“A minus scenario is that shale gas then drives out renewables,” he said, last week. “If ever shale would become as cheap as in the US, we really would have a problem. We are strong defenders of renewables. It is very important we keep investing in renewable technologies.”
You could not make it up. How can they think like that? A recipe for destroying what is left of industry in EU. In my humble opinion Jos Delbeke is even trumphing Lord Deben/Gummer for waffle if that is possible.
Deben came pretty close when he weaselled his way round the conflict of interest question, stating that the Veolia subsidiary dealing in renewables was really TERRIBLY small and FRIGHTFULLY far removed from the main part he was attached to and anyway he knew ABSOLUTELY nothing about it beforehand and of course if he had he would have told Parliament IMMEDIATELY.
Smirk.
someone close to me has just sent an email to Peter Lilley in the following terms
Meanwhile...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/fracking/10367432/EU-red-tape-threatens-future-of-fracking.html
"Jos Delbeke, the director-general of the commission’s “climate action” department, hinted that the EU would use the regulations to defend renewable energy against cheaper shale gas."
Confirming the vile Hedegard's promise to make energy unaffordable.
Off topic but this is the climate report POTUS will read and use for US policy and global interference in conjunction with AR5:
http://ncadac.globalchange.gov
The complex web of US mechanisms for federal climate change activities and budget from 1993 to 2010:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=15pqQESV7HEC&pg=PA13&lpg=PA13&dq=usgcrp+cia&source=bl&ots=JO8Kfat1RN&sig=qQ3mWesAHEIyNMLSUVubgvRvD_s&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0sdVUqiRFaSm0AXkn4CADQ&ved=0CE4Q6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=usgcrp%20cia&f=false
Deben proves once more that IPCC is just a tool for the politician that "justifies" their actions.
I couldn't watch more than ten minutes of Lord Dribbles comments. I have a large trash can next to me. If I had watched more than ten minutes I would have filled it up with vomit. He is beyond awful.
I cannot stand this man, and the video shows him at his supercilious worst. He's the sort of individual who would feed his daughter a suspect beefburger. I seem to recall that one of our regulars had an interesting experience with him some time back which showed the true character of the man - was it you, Mike? I'd like to hear it again. I could only manage about a third of the video before apoplexy struck.
Where's Harry Potter when you need him? The ministry has fallen ...
Why use Silverlight, being a sceptic often also includes being sceptic to MS software.