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« Honing his hypocrisy | Main | Thursday open thread »

Friday open thread

In my absence, here is an open thread for any climate and energy news today.

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Reader Comments (26)

With all this emphasis on the cost of Green Energy measure can I plug the 50 to 1 project. Many of you will know about it from WUWT and I expect many have contributed to the project. I feel it has not had the coverage it deserves. The short video is here

but I strongly urge anyone who has not already done so to follow the link to the project 50 to 1 webside and view the full length interviews there. Please spread the word by social media etc.

Oct 25, 2013 at 10:36 AM | Unregistered CommenterRoss Lea

I wouldn't have anything to say but since no one has posted anything the 95% confidence that the IPCC claims is like the result of a Zimbabwean election. Also that North Korea has a very low carbon footprint.

Oct 25, 2013 at 10:38 AM | Unregistered CommenterRC

No really new news, only a head scratcher that I am working on. Stratospheric cooling: I ran across this article

from Zeke Hausfather about the Santer 2013 paper on a human fingerprint to global warming. The article states "A new research paper by Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory climate scientist Ben Santer and co-authors looks in detail at how climate change resulting from human activities is affecting the temperature of Earth’s atmosphere."

The article then goes on to show that stratospheric cooling cannot be modeled using only natural variation but requires the anthro forcing to be included to match observations. But, the majority of the anthro forcing is not made up of greenhouse gases but instead ozone depletion:

" Climate models attribute most of the stratospheric cooling seen in the last 40 years to ozone depletion, with a small contribution from reduced outgoing heat via greenhouse gases."

This is consistent with this paper:

which states "this constitutes strong, new evidence for the key role of ozone depletion on tropical lower-stratospheric temperature trends."

The article by Hausfather also has comparisons from model to observations of the troposphere which, IMO are not very accurate as the anthro forcing model run is as far or further out than the natural forcing run from the observed.

So, I am a bit confused at the (perceived) attempt to try and couple stratospheric cooling and tropospheric warming to greenhouse gasses. Obviously the the models aren't getting the troposphere correct and greenhouse gasses have little to do with stratospheric temp trends. Here is the money shot:

"Newly published research in ’PNAS’ identifies what authors call a ‘vertical human fingerprint’ in satellite-based estimates of atmospheric temperature changes, adding still more to confidence levels about human influences in warming."

The article and paper seem to be more propaganda than anything else. Am I correct?

Oct 25, 2013 at 10:55 AM | Unregistered CommenterEric H.

It is becoming apparent that Conservative MPs are becoming very concerned about UKIP at the next election. See this article from an MP who is repositioning himself on the topic of wind turbines. His constituency is inundated with wind turbine applications, and only UKIP has previously stood up strongly against them.

Oct 25, 2013 at 11:07 AM | Registered CommenterPhillip Bratby

This might be news, though I think many people saw it coming. According to the Guy Fawkes blog, Cameron is likely to merely transfer green taxes to direct taxation: to pacify Clegg. So most of us will pay them anyway.

Oct 25, 2013 at 11:11 AM | Unregistered CommenterPeter Stroud

Peter Stroud

Lets hope that if he does move these taxes to general taxation that this is just a prelude to rolling them back when he can.

Oct 25, 2013 at 11:14 AM | Unregistered CommenterRoss Lea

Eric H

We are one month away from the completion of Santer's 17-year test for CAGW theory. You may want to stop scratching your head and wait a bit.

Oct 25, 2013 at 11:59 AM | Unregistered Commenterssat

Peter Stroud: Step in right direction. Reduction of government as % of GDP longer-term issue.

ssat: Yep. With everything else, perfect storm?

Oct 25, 2013 at 12:16 PM | Registered CommenterRichard Drake

I suppose there's no chance that the coming storm (Sunday night/Monday morning) might blow some wind turbines down..?

That would be SUCH a shame...

Oct 25, 2013 at 1:07 PM | Unregistered CommenterSherlock1

Sherlock1: Oh for a latter-day Michael Fish.

Oct 25, 2013 at 1:08 PM | Registered CommenterRichard Drake

Richard Drake - indeed - Bring Back Michael Fish...!

On second thoughts, I'll stick with Carol Kirkwood.... (sigh.....)

Oct 25, 2013 at 1:14 PM | Unregistered CommenterSherlock1

Australia's Prof Will Steffen (see a former Climate Commissioner & advisor to the previous Government was on ABC evening telly tonight. He was fed Dorothy Dixers, but he was rather flustered and guarded in this performance. When asked questions about the past (like did past climate change help cause the 2013 Blue Mountains bushfires) he resorted to generalities and often to future projections.
Like others if similar ilk, he is hard to pin down on specific data, like "Was the weather just as hot and the rainfall pattern much the same in the big fires of 1896?" he would answer in the oblique, like "Greenhouse gases are heating the country and so we will have more extreme events like these fires are."
I did not record the show for a transcript, so I hope my examples are an accurate summation.
I mention this TV appearance because it is one of a number of similar ones showing a reluctance to talk specifics about the past. It seems to follow that if anyone gets into a Q&A, it could be OK to keep hammering past examples (if you are prepared & so able to reel them off, of course.)

Oct 25, 2013 at 3:02 PM | Unregistered CommenterGeoff Sherrington

As much as I would like to see Santer and others agree that they had it all wrong I don't think that the pause has given them pause when it comes to their agenda. It will be deep ocean heating, stratospheric cooling, extreme weather, or like today on WUWT...arctic moss that died 44,000 years ago.

Oct 25, 2013 at 3:31 PM | Unregistered CommenterEric H.

Hidden at the bottom of this article about the Unite retreat at Grangemouth

The Grangemouth crisis also coincided with a Government review over the future of Britain’s seven remaining refineries.
The Petroleum Industry Association has warned Energy Secretary Ed Davey that other closures could follow last year’s shutdown of Coryton in Essex.
That is because owners cannot afford a £11.4bn bill to meet a series of EU and UK environmental, carbon, fuel quality and emission regulations due by 2030.

So Green policies give you power cuts, high energy prices and now no petrol.

Oct 25, 2013 at 4:34 PM | Registered CommenterBreath of Fresh Air

Just been listening to the approved feedback on last week's poisonous "Feedback". It seems "the BBC has a long history of providing a balanced output under pressure from both sides". Sorry, no, make that a "balanced" output - wouldn't want to mislead any innocent passers-by into thinking the BBC has ever provided real balance on anything when there's propaganda to be propagated. Why do we bother with them?

Oct 25, 2013 at 4:49 PM | Unregistered CommenterSteve C

Oct 25, 2013 at 4:49 PM | Steve C

Because we must fund them - it is the law.
Useless lefty anachronistic B#st#rds!

Oct 25, 2013 at 5:10 PM | Unregistered Commenterroger

@RC RIGHT: Mugabe & Pachauri one rigs elections, one is elected to rig

@Phillip Bratby Redwood sounds UKIP I said yesterday

- My Dad says TV says the Grangemouth refinery will stay open to process shale gas brought in from America

Oct 25, 2013 at 5:20 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

@Steve C Yep Feedback was still appalling
justice would have been : apologies and corrections, instead we were palmed off
1. replayed Steve Jones complaining BBC does "science authority" vs "balance opinion from outside"
2. Skeptic good good points -
3. Robert Craig "support BBC stance .flat earth green cheese lah lah" extensive dramaqueening
4. Brian Skitrell - middle way -

- Impartiality Boss : David Jordan - disagreed with SJ saying only scientists in field can be aired
"we recognise the consensus" .. and we know people around
"large numbers of audience have skeptical views" ..BBC needs to reflect broad range of audience
conceded "referring to skeptics, cos denier is loaded word"
- Wow BBCdepts 95% owned by DramaGreens & Hedgefunds am i supposed the BBC - am I supposed to be happy it concedes 5% ?

RB tried to talk of huge pressure on BBC fantasy of We skeptics/Big Oil vs IPCC Science
(rather than the reality the pressure is REALITY vs BigGreen I think it is)
- BBC is my smart intelligent partner in life. But on issue of Climate it becomes hysterical

Oct 25, 2013 at 5:41 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Slightly off subject but I have just heard the BBC 6 O'clock News report on the Grangemouth situation.

Only on the Beeb could you possibly turn a major climb-down by the union into a victory for the workers!

You couldn't make it up.

Oct 25, 2013 at 6:19 PM | Unregistered CommenterYertizz


Couldn't agree more. I'm about to make a formal complaint to them - not that I expect much success, given past performances. I anticipate that the victory will be persuading the company to not close down. I know, I know…..

Oct 25, 2013 at 7:02 PM | Unregistered Commentermiket


I have e-mailed Points of View about it (using roughly the same text as above).

I will watch the programme on Sunday afternoon ..... but I won't be holding my breath!

Oct 25, 2013 at 8:19 PM | Unregistered CommenterYertizz

As the coming storm gathers, is it not time to think about all those homes with solar cells on their roofs

Oct 25, 2013 at 8:29 PM | Unregistered CommenterAnoneumouse

@ Ross Lea Oct 25, 2013 at 11:14 AM

"Lets hope that if he does move these taxes to general taxation that this is just a prelude to rolling them back when he can.”

On the contrary, Cameron must absolutely be prevented from hiding the impact of Green Taxes.

Only by keeping them where they are, will sufferers realise the true costs of these foolhardy policies.

Oct 25, 2013 at 8:59 PM | Unregistered CommenterJoe Public

Another Fish Spinner

22:00/25 UTC

Oct 25, 2013 at 11:22 PM | Unregistered Commenterclipe

Sun Editorial page Friday "Get Fracking" ..Guardian you lost
Flip me 2 page spread on bureaucracy holding up fracking

yes that Sun readership 6.7m
vs Guardian Climatescareporn mag pandering to lowest common denominator of it? readers 1650 who actually buy their own copy

The Sun read by people who can barely read for themselves
The Guardian read by people who can barely think for themselves

- Wolves wearing cloaks of Green destroyed your children's country

Oct 26, 2013 at 12:43 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Select Committee on CMS announced on 22 October that it is to hold an enquiry into the future of the BBC. The deadline for written submission is 6 December. Anyone seeking to make a submission should note that they have until the 6th December to address the future of the BBC.
Details on ..Actual Submission form (25Mb max so on't get carried away, you've got only an encyclopedia worth)

Oct 26, 2013 at 12:50 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

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