Bishop Hill Spectator debate
Sep 5, 2012 I'm on the panel for a Spectator debate in Edinburgh this month:
Wednesday 19 September 2012
National Museum of Scotland, EdinburghAlex Salmond wants to generate 100 per cent of Scotland's electricity from renewables by 2020. Impossible, unaffordable and just hot air? In the next few years Alex Salmond plans to turn Scotland into one huge wind farm, but does wind power really live up to the claims made by its advocates? Is the SNP heading down a route doomed to failure? Or is this in fact the start of a ‘renewable revolution'? The Spectator travels to Edinburgh for the first time to debate this important issue. Join us at the National Museum of Scotland, Edinburgh on Wednesday 19 September and you decide whether Scotland's energy policy is just hot air.
Details here.
Reader Comments (26)
I wonder if Alex Salmond thinks that Scots should be discouraged from using carbon-based fuels, whilst simultaneous selling North Sea Oil to the rest of the world? I have not heard.
The Gillard government in Australia seems to have no problems with such breathtaking hypocrisy. But perhaps some future Scottish Finance minister would abjure any such filthy lucre, or use it solely to build some energy storage and backup facilities for the turbines [or even import electricity from some neighbouring country].
This policy sounds similar to the one that several hundred years ago brought about the buncruptcy of scotland and lead them into the hands of the english.
I take it the history of the Darien venture is not taught in Scottish schools.
Damn!
That's the day after I return to France.
I'm sure you'll tie the opposition in knots but I regret I'll not be there to watch.
Oh - DO lets hope for a nice, fat, anticyclone to settle over the whole UK (or just Scotland will do) on that date....
Darien Wind Farm?
Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it ...
With these brainless goons in charge all I can say is
Roll on Scottish Independence!
Please let your readers know when Holyrood intends to depend exclusively upon renewables.
It's easy to see how it's going to be done: Piezoelectric transducers to be sewn into all kilts and a series of grills along Princes Street........
Sorry, that should have been: 'and a series of girls along Princes Street....'
Perhaps the leader of Scotland's "wee pretendy parliament" (© Billy Connolly) knows something the the esteemed Royal Academy of Engineering doesn't.
According to Academy Vice President Dr Sue Ion
A meta-point, if his grace will forgive me. How often is that the five Recent Comments on the top right are each from different threads? As of now:
This speaks to me a particularly vibrant patch in BH history. But then my biases are manifest, as I'm sure will become clear from the next batch of 'targeted' Lewandowsky questionnaires.
Alec M
That was very funny hehe
Alec M wrote: "It's easy to see how it's going to be done: Piezoelectric transducers to be sewn into all kilts and a series of grills along Princes Street........
Sorry, that should have been: 'and a series of girls along Princes Street....' "
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Reminded me of a supposedly true story I read in a funny book back in the '60's:
A fellow goes into a public men's restroom, with graffiti on the walls. He starts to read, and finds:
"I like grils",
but "grils" has been crossed out and underneath is written "girls".
Immediately below that is written: "What about us grils?"
ba-DUMP-dum
Does anyone really think they will cutting of the power supply lines from 'evil fossil fuel power stations ' any-time soon ?
I believe your Grace's opponent in the debate Is Niall Stuart the CEO of Scottish Renewables.
In response to the claim that wind has subsidies, he claims that oil and gas also get subsidies.
Does anyone know if this is true?
Warm William
It isn't true.
> Warm William
> It isn't true.
That he's your opponent or that O&G get subsidies.
BTW, he's the anti-me.
Nial Stewart
This web page describes tax breaks for Centrica:
http://www.resource.uk.com/article/UK/Gas_tax_breaks_lead_announcement_Centricas_new_shallow_water_gas_field
Warmists often equate tax breaks to subsidies. It does give rise to the question: What exactly is a subsidy", though?
I believe that many US energy companies get "tax breaks", too.
Graphic conception
Oil and gas companies pay an extra tax (the Supplementary Charge) on top of corporation tax. This extra tax is not paid by renewables companies (or any other companies). The government has reduced this extra tax for various new developments.
To call a reduction in a supertax a "subsidy" is what most people would call a lie.
Is he who you'll be speaking against?
I've read some of his 'pronouncements' and have thought he's an embarassment to the name!
Opps, didn't notice "For more information, click here."
I've registered so hopefully see you there.
Nial
Why not make the goal for Scotland and indeed all of the UK to achieve "renewables" output of 300% of domestic electricity needs by 2020, so that the surplus can be exported to continental Europe. After all, if renewables are such a good deal at the heart of the post-modern economy then more is better.
[/SARCASM]
To try and explain the SNP position on renewables (as I understand it), their intention to provide 100% of Scotland's electricity is not as simple or transparent as it seems.
Scotland's average demand is about 3.5GW, peak is about 6GW. The plan is not to generate an average of 6GW by renewables, but 3.5GW. Scotland already has about 1.5GW capacity from existing 20th Century hydro schemes, which on average generate about 0.4GW. There is currently about 4GW installed capacity of wind in Scotland (mostly onshore so say load factor of 20-25%) - average output 0.8GW. So on average Scotland is producing about 1.2GW from renewables. The SNP's plan is to triple this output. The problem is that most of the 'easy' onshore windfarm sites have been developed, and new sites will have to be in much more contentious places and landscapes an/or offshore which is much more expensive in terms of capital and maintenance, and also further from where the grid and where the power is required. Wave and tide machines are still (yes still) years away from producing more than 10MW. Hydro can't produce anymore unless major glens and valleys are flooded for new dams and schemes. So even if the onshore wind sites can be identified, forced through planning (which to be fair they are managing to do quite well just now), and landscapes ruined, the elephant in the room that Salmond (and his advisers) have yet to see and comprehend is that having the necessary 12GW (to get the 3GW average) of fluctuating wind connected will create a grid balancing and transmission nightmare - brownouts and blackouts here we come. Where all this power goes when it is windy and England has enough already, or what happens when the wind does not blow has not been explained. And this is all for the sake of 2 or 3GW which could be easily and reliably generated by a couple of new coal, gas or nuclear plants. (though I think Scotland could manage without a new nuclear station, provided we built a new gas or coal plant instead). Engineering and economic madness. But to me the most astonishing thing about all they know that the windmills are dependent on 100-150% subsidy; and thus the SNP's whole economic policy which is wholly based on renewables, is therefore wholly dependent on Cameron (or any other Westminster PM) not significantly reducing the ROCs. Cameron has the ace in his pack but does not seem to know it. Meanwhile China is building a new coal plant every week or so and even Germany is going to build another 20 coal stations - because they know that renewables will not keep the lights on when the winter highs come over. But Salmond and Swinney are too scared of about 3 people in WWF and one or two in FoES.
The figures above are off the top of my head so approximate.
If you are looking for some reliable facts, see the reports at this website.
http://www.nationalgrid.com/uk/Electricity/Operating+in+2020/
Consultation: Operating in 2020
Consultation background
Since June 2008, as part of the Electricity Networks Strategy Group (ENSG), we have worked with other energy companies, Government and Ofgem to produce a vision of the network reinforcements required to meet the 2020 renewable energy target.
This page contains the documentation for our consultation on ‘Operating the Electricity Transmission Networks in 2020’. The consultation document describes and examines the likely issues relating to operating the electricity transmission networks in 2020.
Our assessment is based on a vision for 2020 of an electricity transmission system which evolves to connect extensive renewable generation to achieve climate change objectives.
This sustainability objective must be achieved whilst maintaining a diverse generation background and appropriate network standards in order to maintain security of supply and to do so affordably.
The purpose of this consultation is to complement the ENSG work and examine the issues of system operation against the same Gone Green scenario. The document outlines our initial views on the key issues we will face in our role as System Operator of the electricity transmission networks and provides an indication of the services we are likely to require as 'residual balancer', along with the potential providers of those services.
Consultation Update 2011
In this updated 2011 consultation document we expand on our initial views that were provided in the 2009 consultation. Further detail is provided on previously identified challenges, which includes some recent operational experience, together with our views on additional issues that National Grid is likely to encounter in its role as residual balancer.