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« Stuart Young on the IPPR report | Main | Yeo works late »
Sunday
Sep022012

Public consultation on offshore wind

This press release was recently released by the Scottish Government. The short notice is, well, extraordinary.

Local communities are being encouraged to get involved in Scotland’s plans for offshore renewable energy, as a series of public meetings kick off over the coming weeks.

The meetings will provide information about the planning process on how Scotland can utilise offshore wind, wave and tidal energy, and seek the views of members of the public to help inform this work...

Meetings will take place in the following locations:

  • Edinburgh, September 3: Premier Inn, Morrison Street, Haymarket
  • Kirkwall (Orkney), September 4: Kirkwall Town Hall, Broad Street
  • Aberdeen, September 5:  Camelite Hotel, Stirling Street
  • Glasgow, September 6: Glasgow Royal Concert Hall, Sauchiehall Street
  • Newton Stewart (Dumfries & Galloway), September 7: McMillan Hall, Dashwood Square
  • Stornoway (Lewis), September 27: Bayhead Bridge Centre, Lamont Lane
  • Inverness, September 28: Crown Court Townhouse Hotel, 25 Southside Road

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Reader Comments (34)

Looks like an ideal opportunity to turn up and ask about Pat Swords' EU ruling and where is the required work to avoid such problems in the justification process. Otherwise it might juuuuust be possible that this is an attempt to get the consultation box ticked while not giving anybody a chance to put any sort of opposition case. I suggest that that proposition is put to them too, and that a concerned citizen should insist that their reservations about these and other concerns should go on the record at each and every 'meeting'.


Can you make it Bish? Preferably to the embra one.


Mike H /scottish sceptic, were you aware of this?

Sep 2, 2012 at 8:58 AM | Unregistered CommenterRhoda Klapp

I don't know know the other venues, but the Premier Inn, Edinburgh is anything but "premier" for such an important event.

Sep 2, 2012 at 9:00 AM | Unregistered CommenterRob Schneider

And so the insane and indeed suicidal juggernaut rumbles on crushing all in its path, without any apparent hindrance, impervious to all reason, economics and science (real science not the junk variety).

Sep 2, 2012 at 9:52 AM | Unregistered Commentercerberus

I agree with Rhoda, It is a box-ticking exercise, just going through the motions and a waste of time. Adverse comments will be ignored. They only want "views of members of the public to help inform this work", which will go ahead regardless.

Sep 2, 2012 at 9:56 AM | Unregistered CommenterPhillip Bratby

Two simple questions;

Who is paying for the capital cost?
Price per kWh in 2020 if the target of 100% is met?

Sep 2, 2012 at 10:03 AM | Unregistered Commenterssat

With the possible exception of Inverness and Stornoway meeting times, I believe that would be insufficient notice for any such meeting at any level of gov't in the US. Though I wouldn't put it past any number of executive branch bureaucrats (e.g. EPA) to post a hearing time for yesterday, three states over.

cheers,

gary

Sep 2, 2012 at 10:20 AM | Unregistered CommenterGary Turner

Well they wouldn't want anyone with a dissenting voice actually turning up would they?

Sep 2, 2012 at 11:00 AM | Unregistered Commentermeltemian

And then I began to wonder, is there a record? That's the first question to ask. If this is consultation, are you keeping a record of what the members of the public actually say. Will there be a compilation of same available later for cross-checking? Ask if this consultation meets an official requirement to consult, and what the terms of notice are. Ask if UNECE requirements are being met. That should shut them up. They will not want a record of being reminded of what the legal requirements actually are, especially if they haven't heard of Pat Swords' judgment.

Sep 2, 2012 at 11:07 AM | Unregistered CommenterRhoda Klapp

Apart from this blog, does anyone know where else this press report is being publicised?

Sep 2, 2012 at 11:28 AM | Unregistered CommenterRoyFOMR

@RoyFORMR

I saw a notice in Saturday's "Scotsman" newspaper website. I don't know if it was in the paper version of the newspaper. See http://www.scotsman.com/news/scottish-news/top-stories/have-your-say-on-renewable-energy-plans-1-2501250.

Sep 2, 2012 at 12:39 PM | Unregistered CommenterRob Schneider

And so the Agenda 21 juggernaut rumbles on. How many Scots do they intend to kill? A third of the population perhaps? Or is it more, a reprise of the clearances to make the moors fit for EU Green Bureaucratic Dachas?

Sep 2, 2012 at 1:02 PM | Unregistered CommenterAlecM

If anybody does actually turn up, I would suggest page 109 of the Aarhus Convention: An Implementation Guide is pointed out to them and an official access to information on the environment request be made as to how they are going to comply with it in regard to this offshore renewable programme.

http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/env/pp/acig.pdf

http://www.itspublicknowledge.info/Law/EIRs/EIRs.asp

People shouldn't be shy about this. Remember these officials work for you, not the renewable energy industry and it is you that pays their wages and will be expected to pay the massive financial and environmental costs associated with this programme.

Sep 2, 2012 at 1:24 PM | Unregistered CommenterPat Swords

Rob Schneider
There's nothing wrong with the Edinburgh Premier Inn provided it's the city centre one off Haymarket — though there are better venues.
If it's the Meadowbank one, then they're 'avin' a larf!

Sep 2, 2012 at 3:25 PM | Registered CommenterMike Jackson

Just come back from Edinburgh, Premier Inn at Livingstone, very nice Beefeater Inn attached to it. Incredible driving through turbine alley, M74, as to how the scenery has changed.

Sep 2, 2012 at 4:11 PM | Registered CommenterLord Beaverbrook

Thanks rob

Sep 2, 2012 at 4:39 PM | Unregistered CommenterRoyFOMR

If they issue a press release on Friday 31st for a meeting in Edinburgh on Monday 3rd, they nobviously don't want too many people attending. Quite outrageous.

Sep 2, 2012 at 4:50 PM | Unregistered CommenterHuhneToTheSlammer

HTTS :I'm quite sure this is a deliberate ploy to exclude people, those from the Edinburgh area at least. I've written an "Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells" type letter about this to one of our list MSPs saying I think the matter should be raised in the wee toty parliament.- (well, I didn't actually say that, but anyway..).Don't hold your breath for an answer.

Sep 2, 2012 at 4:57 PM | Unregistered CommenterMessenger

Two further simple questions that should be asked by ALL communities:

1. What plans are in place for providing base load and peak capcities?

2. How much are such plans going to cost?

Sep 2, 2012 at 5:46 PM | Unregistered CommenterDr K.A. Rodgers

Eh - no meetings anywhere in Argyll or on Tiree? I wonder why not?

http://www.no-tiree-array.org.uk/

Sep 2, 2012 at 8:38 PM | Registered Commenterlapogus

Write an online letter to your MP at the Write To Them website .

It's the real deal - you send an email and the MP or MSP or MEP gets a letter. I used this when I lived in the UK and I got an email acknowledgement within 24 hours and a written reply after about 10 days.

Sep 2, 2012 at 9:17 PM | Unregistered CommenterJack Hughes

Write to your MP / MSP in under a minute using this website

Sep 2, 2012 at 9:18 PM | Unregistered CommenterJack Hughes

If I were Scottish I would take the absurdly short and feebly advertised notice period as a cynical and deliberate insult.

Sep 2, 2012 at 9:25 PM | Registered CommenterPharos

"If I were Scottish I would take the absurdly short and feebly advertised notice period as a cynical and deliberate insult"
If I weren't Scottish I would take the absurdly short and feebly advertised notice period as a cynical and deliberate insult
Yup Pharos. This IS a cynical and deliberate insult.

Sep 2, 2012 at 11:38 PM | Unregistered CommenterRoyFOMR

I hope the local press cover all the meetings and that their reporters are informed about the Aarhus Convention. If the local press do start raising questions then perhaps the Scotsman and Glasgow Herald will also feel obliged to discuss "wind farms" (I know they are more like factories than farms) and the Aarhus Convention and if that happens perhaps the UK-wide media will eventually pick up on it too.

Sep 3, 2012 at 11:22 AM | Unregistered CommenterRoy

Apart from this blog, does anyone know where else this press report is being publicised?

Thanks to one of our members, it is on our Scottish Climate & Energy Forum (scef.org.uk)" website, and we have emailed it out to our members, supports and wind action groups.

If anyone is going and can hand out leaflets please contact us at 2012@scef.org.uk

Sep 3, 2012 at 12:32 PM | Registered CommenterMikeHaseler

I have received a prompt answer from the list MSP I wrote to yesterday. He sent me the following from the Scottish government- I can't say I'm impressd by it.

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/marine/marineenergy/Planning/event

"We published a participation statement at the beginning of August, stating we would run the events in September. Since then we have:

Advertised each of the individual events in the press

Advised stakeholders directly and via their networks (i.e. sent details to representatives and asked them to send them on)

Sent posters etc to post offices, libraries etc to selected places such as Newton Stewart, Lerwick and Stornoway where interest is particularly high.

Stakeholders have been aware and corresponded with us on the events already.

Essentially, the press release came last in a long line of efforts to publish the events throughout august.

This is also a first round of events. We are doing another round of events at more locations next year. This is an informal / non statutory stage - the consultation next year will be more comprehensive. The locations for this are set out in the participation statement which can be found on the weblink above."

Sep 3, 2012 at 12:42 PM | Unregistered CommenterMessenger

Roy: I hope the local press cover all the meetings and that their reporters are informed about the Aarhus Convention.

Roy, the Scottish Climate & Energy Forum needs people like you who are willing to actively campaign by writing press releases, producing publicity material or just giving us the funds to send publicity to MPs. To put this in perspective, it costs around £128 to send just one mailshot to all MSPs (and a days work to write a covering letter, address and stuff envelopes). With a £10 membership fee that means we need at least 12 new members to join just to send out one new mailshot.

And ... that doesn't count the cost of hiring halls for our AGM on the 27th, the time organising even one event like the AGM, keeping the website up to date, etc.

In other words, we need more people willing to help. Please email to see what you can do!

Sep 3, 2012 at 12:42 PM | Registered CommenterMikeHaseler

Green bank ready to commit £3bn to environmental firms - Business News - Business - The Independent 3rd September 2012

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/green-bank-ready-to-commit-3bn-to-environmental-firms-8101524.html

"The Government's £3bn flagship scheme to encourage private sector money into low carbon technology and green initiatives is on the hunt for projects with which to formally launch in October.

Officials preparing the launch of the Green Investment Bank are understood to have met with a number of businesses about committing cash to a number of environmentally friendly schemes, such as recycling plants.

The spokesman added that the officials are also looking at other initiatives, including offshore wind, waste recycling facilities, and energy-from-waste projects.

The bank will be run by several heavy-hitters from the private sector. The chairman is Lord Smith of Kelvin, who is chair of energy giant SSE and the 2014 Glasgow Commonwealth Games organising committee, and his deputy is Sir Adrian Montague, who is chairman of private equity group 3i and led the advisory group that set up the bank." (he has been heavily involved in PFI)

Lord Smith of Kelvin says offshore wind power and energy efficiency will be among priority areas for £3bn GIB 22 Jun 2012
http://www.businessgreen.com/bg/news/2186529/green-investment-bank-avoid-risky-marine-power-chairman

SSE is a partner in the Forewind Consortium, of which Lord Deben is chairman

"But Smith confirmed the bank would not be investing in early stage technologies, such as marine power and carbon capture and storage projects, because they are far from being commercially viable."

Sir Adrian Montague is currently chairman of the Anglian Water Group. Anglian Water is part of Veolia UK, of which Lord Deben is chairman.

Sep 3, 2012 at 1:36 PM | Unregistered CommenterDennis A

A long time lurker finds an excuse to make a contribution...

I work close by the Premier Inn so I nipped into the Edinburgh drop-in session at lunchtime to ask a few questions in advance of tonight. I spoke to one of their chaps for around 20 minutes (I was the only member of the public there; there were 3 people, all from Marine Scotland as far as I can tell).

The sessions are being run by Marine Scotland, to consult on possible locations for offshore renewables such as wind, wave and tidal. It looks like they aren't looking at the wider economic case for renewables, just the narrower question of possible sites for development. The sites will then have to be approved for development by both the Crown Estate and the Scottish Government.

After the sites are approved, the formal tendering and leasing process will begin. It seems that Marine Scotland are primarily a licensing body as far as renewables are concerned.

This consultation is an informal one, not statutory, and has been set up in response to criticism last time round (for offshore wind) that the consultation was purely a box-ticking exercise. The formal consultation is in spring 2013. As well as the public consultation, they are consulting various verticals (e.g. tourism, fishery) over the next few weeks.

They hope to identify sites which are commercially attractive to developers, which do not have major socio-economic impacts on existing industries or communities. Whatever your views on the wider economic impacts of renewable energy, this seems like a reasonable view for the narrow question they are being asked to explore.

They expect that the actual construction will be privately funded, with the costs recovered through the subsidised unit costs. Offshore wind is expected to develop more quickly than wave or tidal, which are expected to progress to larger pilots before further development.

It's quite a small venue for the event (perhaps 100 seats), and I asked if they expected anyone from the renewables industry to turn up tonight for the formal presentation. They had no idea who was going to turn up. I didn't get the impression it was going to be stuffed with the "pro" lobby but we'll see this evening.

I made the point that I was more interested in the wider questions of cost and energy security, but they weren't really able to comment on this; that was a question for other government departments.

I left with the feeling that these guys were probably the wrong target for some of the questions raised above, but we will see how tonight goes. I will send out more notes afterwards. If anyone else is planning to attend, perhaps the Bish can arrange a swap of email addresses?

Sep 3, 2012 at 2:05 PM | Unregistered CommenterJohn Brady

John, - thanks for that post - very helpful. I'm keen to get to Edinburgh but, may be late.

Again, if anyone wants any "Global warming the facts" leaflets to hand out, please email 2012@scef.org.uk.

Messenger - that's invaluable information. I've emailed the renewables division asking how SCEF becomes a "stakeholder".

Sep 3, 2012 at 3:19 PM | Registered CommenterMikeHaseler

This whole exercise reeks of typical government box ticking in order for them to claim that the public have been consulted on the matter. Then no more will be heard, including the results of any consultation. Also I would anticipate that the meetings will be stacked with wind developers and their lobbyists - with a highly biased chair person to minimise input form the unwashed peasants and maximise input from the wind brigade.
Strange selection of venues - nothing in Fife nor on the West coast but a meeting in Glasgow??? What are they planning for "offshore" Glasgow?

Sep 3, 2012 at 3:32 PM | Unregistered CommenterGeomac

Mike Haseler:
I suspect that a stakeholder in the eyes of the SG is a firm or pressure group who wants to build a lot of useless turbines all over the place. I have been involved with a Scottish housing forum for some years and we have had a long and mostly fruitless fight to get local residents included as a group who have an interest in what is going on, should be invited to relevant meetings, and informed of discussions elsewhere.

Sep 3, 2012 at 4:08 PM | Unregistered CommenterMessenger

A handful of people turned up for the consultation, around a dozen I think, and mostly readers of this blog! As I suspected, the focus was on the narrow question of suitable locations for offshore energy. This wasn't a consultation on policy; those decisions have already been made. The officials from Marine Scotland and the Scottish Environment Agency weren't briefed to talk about wider economic impacts, although they said they were happy to take any questions away.

My main feedback was that I'd like to see some consultation on the wider topic of energy policy. I also asked if they could provide a breakdown of how much power was expected to be generated offshore to achieve the government target of 100% renewables by 2020, which they said they would provide.

Sep 8, 2012 at 1:21 PM | Unregistered CommenterJohn Brady

John - regardless of how many people turned up and the inability of the presenters to answer braod questions, the government will be able to claim to have consulted and proceed with what they wanted to do in the first place. Which session did you attend?

Sep 8, 2012 at 1:32 PM | Unregistered CommenterGeomac

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