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« Myles Allen on Berlin's two concepts of liberty | Main | Jeff Masters on Mann and PCA »
Saturday
May192012

Is it or ain't it Rashit?

There is an interesting exchange in the comments to Steve McIntyre's recent post on the updated Yamal data he has recently received from Rashit Hantemirov, the Russian climatologist who originally sampled the Yamal trees.

The new data, which now extends right up to 2005, does not have a hockey stick shape - yet another extraordinary turn in this most extraordinary story.

In the comments, there is what purports to be a comment from Hantemirov himself:

Steve, I’m horrified by your slipshod work. You did not define what you compare, what dataset used in each case, how data were processed, and what was the reason for that, what limitation there are, what kind of additional information you need to know. Why didn’t you ask me for all the details? You even aren’t ashamed of using information from stolen letters.

Do carelessness, grubbiness, dishonourableness are the
necessary concomitants of your job?

With disrespect…

Readers were rather taken aback by this comment and there appears to be some doubt over its authenticity - Anthony Watts noted that it was posted from a proxy server. Nevertheless Steve M seems convinced that it is genuine.

The question is, what on Earth has brought this rush of blood to Hantermirov's head (if indeed it is him). Has he been got at?

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Reader Comments (64)

I wason Climate Audit when the post arrived and I made a reply along the lines of: 'Oh no! The trolls have arrived." This was deleted by Steve McIntyre pretty quickly and before he made his reply that he felt the post was genuine.

May 19, 2012 at 9:28 AM | Unregistered CommenterJimmy Haigh

That's a cry of distress if I ever heard one.
=================

May 19, 2012 at 9:32 AM | Unregistered Commenterkim

I did wonder yesterday whether it was genuine. Why would a scientist pass on data to McI knowing what he is about and then get upset when he uses it on a blog ? Seems odd. Until the real scientist pops up of course we won't know.

Another Gleick perhaps ?

May 19, 2012 at 9:33 AM | Unregistered CommenterMorph

If its genuine then of course he has been got at...ABD I bet the thing that p1ssed "The Team" off the most would have been his cordial tone. Bet that got right up "The Teams" nose!

Mailman

May 19, 2012 at 9:47 AM | Unregistered CommenterMailman

A posting ostensibly from Russian? We've had that kind of thing happen before haven't we. And we are in the lead up to Rio 20+.

Is the language of the comment fitting for someone whose first language probably isn't English? 'Slipshod' sticks out like a sore thumb. The first paragraph is fine. It's the sentence after that makes it look like someone on a wind up realising they should have be using worse grammar.

May 19, 2012 at 9:48 AM | Unregistered CommenterGareth

I'm far from a specialist, but I just reread a few Hantemirov emails in climategate ...

the English seems quite different to me ...

May 19, 2012 at 9:52 AM | Unregistered Commenteralex verlinden

Rubles running over,
What's it all about, Rashit?
Six sigma gold strike.
============

May 19, 2012 at 9:57 AM | Unregistered Commenterkim

I suspect mann, briffa et al were jamming themselves feet-first down Hantemirov's throat within hours of McIntyre's posting, and his hand is being forced on this issue. Just too bad he wasn't the First person Steve approached when all of this FOIA mess began.

May 19, 2012 at 10:02 AM | Unregistered CommenterOtter

The peculiarity is that Rashit is responding to a caricature of Steve. Does he really not know any better? Astonishing.
==========

May 19, 2012 at 10:06 AM | Unregistered Commenterkim

I know Russian and Russians quite well and there is no sign at all of the characteristic grammatical errors made by Russians, the grammatical errors are random and they appear to have been deliberately introduced for effect. I would say the author's first language was English and that it's most unlikely that they know Russian or have even corresponded with Russians, they just used a Russian proxy. I can't believe it's genuine. It reads like a spam e-mail.

May 19, 2012 at 10:09 AM | Unregistered CommenterJustMe

You even aren’t ashamed of using information from stolen letters.'
What letters ?
But as McIntyre points out Mr X has not actual said pointed out what is 'wrong ' in what he is saying merely attacked him for doing it , which is a typical Team approach for sure.

May 19, 2012 at 10:12 AM | Unregistered CommenterKnR

Or perhaps someone wrote it for him, so he could subsequently post it....?

May 19, 2012 at 10:15 AM | Unregistered CommenterRick Bradford

Well one grammatical error, 'Do carelessness' is simply an angry, or frightened, left middle finger taking precedence over the ring finger and typing 'So carelessness'.
=======================

May 19, 2012 at 10:21 AM | Unregistered Commenterkim

re: grammar. There is an 'is' missing in the second line, a plural in the fourth line, and a grammatical and forceful 'even aren't' instead of the expected 'aren't even'. These argue haste and anger and/or fear, instead of unfamiliarity with the language.
============

May 19, 2012 at 10:34 AM | Unregistered Commenterkim

From my hazy perspective, Rashit Hantemirov has always seemed the honest serf, labouring in the vineyards to produce the raw material used by Briffa to make his intoxicating spirit. This communication, if genuine, suggests his greater involvement in the distillation of the toxic brew.

More 'stolen letters', please, from the crew that stole away with the truth.
================

May 19, 2012 at 10:54 AM | Unregistered Commenterkim

It's a fake - not a foreigner. It reads like a bad episode of 'allo 'allo.

May 19, 2012 at 10:56 AM | Unregistered CommenterJack Hughes

Well, if it's fake, we'll find out soon enough. But I think it is genuine. Nick Stokes, of all people, convinced me.
=========

May 19, 2012 at 10:58 AM | Unregistered Commenterkim

One wonders if Briffa and co have some kind of leverage over this guy.

Something about avoidance of Russian taxes?

Couldn't be.

Surely.

May 19, 2012 at 11:16 AM | Unregistered CommenterMartin Brumby

Martin, there's one 'stolen letter' that makes me wonder about that, but I can't find it now, so I just write haiku instead of saying what I think.
===========

May 19, 2012 at 11:21 AM | Unregistered Commenterkim

Odd. One word that is so global it needs no translation is 'email'. Referring to stolen 'letters' suggests the author of this comment is trying too hard.

May 19, 2012 at 11:22 AM | Unregistered CommenterPeter S

@jack hughes

'It reads like a bad episode of 'allo 'allo'

Incorrect. There were no bad episodes of 'allo 'allo. Every one a gem.

But seriously, I think we should all calm down. There seems very little substance to suggest that this is a genuine posting. As per our own local troll, the best strategy is to ignore it.

Which can be difficult on a quiet Saturday when temptation is placed in one's way. But we are strong ad will decide to watch the cricket or something instead.

May 19, 2012 at 11:29 AM | Unregistered CommenterLatimer Alder

He's blatantly sensitive about 'stolen letters' and he projects the Hockey Team's characteristics onto Steve McIntyre. This is world class dissonance.

And 'with disrespect....'? How more elegantly could he bring disrespect onto himself for those following the story?

Please, Rashit, say it ain't so.
=======

May 19, 2012 at 11:34 AM | Unregistered Commenterkim

This is one of those embarrassing moments for the BH community, which, if it happened in a village, it would resemble a scene in which villagers run in different directions screaming fire before asking for the facts.

Do we have any confirmation that the commenter is indeed Hantemirov? Have we yet heard from Hantemirov personally a confirmation or denial that he authored that comment? What is all this commotion?

Talk about getting hot headed...

May 19, 2012 at 12:09 PM | Unregistered CommentersHx

I think JustMe has it. i worked with a Russian for five years whose English was evolving. The CA post doesn't sound right - different grammar.

May 19, 2012 at 12:12 PM | Registered Commenterjferguson

BTW, even if it is Hantemirov, does it justify all this hullabaloo before we hear more from him?

May 19, 2012 at 12:31 PM | Unregistered CommentersHx

Latimer
Can't get the cricket. Can get the Scottish Cup Final though! :¬)

Seriously. We would be better off establishing the truth before spraying half-baked opinions around the place. If this is genuine and if Rashit has come under pressure from The Team that is reprehensible behaviour of the first order and goes a long way to prove that these Usual Suspects have completely lost the plot as far as scientific research and civilised discourse are concerned.
Is the purpose of climate research to establish certain facts about the climate and perhaps make value judgements about the likely future course of the climate or not? They would seem to be answering 'no' in which case the next question to them must be: then what is it about?

May 19, 2012 at 12:35 PM | Registered CommenterMike Jackson

"Rashit" posted on 16th May. McIntyre emailed him a few hours later.

I am surprised Rashit hasn't responded already confirming or denying he was the author of the post.

May 19, 2012 at 12:38 PM | Registered Commentermangochutney

There is no article in Russian so they don't use 'a' and 'the'.

May 19, 2012 at 12:52 PM | Unregistered Commentermydogsgotnonose

Well, we don't know. Maybe he is in transit and with the trains being so famously slow moving in Mother Russia... Something similar happened to Joe Bast of Heartland during the Gleick fraud, I believe.

Still, I am prepared to give him the benefit of doubt. I'd like to hear directly from Hantemirov, through the correct channels that he authored that comment and the detailed reasons for it, preferably in less than a month and in no more than 1500 words. Even a Guardian Environment interview would do in these circumstances.

Until then the commotion is completely unjustified simply because on the internet nobody knows you are a dog.

May 19, 2012 at 1:15 PM | Unregistered CommentersHx

where is mosh?

May 19, 2012 at 1:28 PM | Unregistered CommenterTony Hansen

professor bryan cox is a dog
also on the internet

May 19, 2012 at 1:54 PM | Unregistered Commenterptw

a Guardian environment interview

shudders

May 19, 2012 at 1:54 PM | Unregistered Commenterptw

message received
was not understood

May 19, 2012 at 2:07 PM | Unregistered CommentersHx

In http://www.ecowho.com/foia.php?file=4981.txt you'll see Rashit consulting with Tom Melvin over a response to a journalist's inquiry:

Hantemirov to Melvin: "I have prepared short answer (see below). How do you and Keith think, is it appropriate to answer? ("urgent work" is true. I'm very busy now)" (strange that the 'true' parts need to be flagged in the climatology community correspondence).

Melvin to Hantemirov: "Keith is happy for you to reply to the journalist. Please could you send us a copy without telling journalist."

Tom also warns Rashit about the complexities of getting the 'correct' climatological trend from his raw own data:

Melvin to Hantemirov: "If you are reconstructing climate using the new data set there are a few problems (RCS bias) that could cause problems. If you wish for any suggestions or help from us please ask."

Melvin to Hantemirov: "Keith is drafting a reply to the criticisms and we would want to include you and Stepan in our reply." (Rashit and Stepan are not included as authors in the response posted by Briffa and Melvin - they are thanked instead - on a later occasion Briffa removed himself as an author of one of Hantemirov's papers)

May 19, 2012 at 2:59 PM | Unregistered CommenterZT

As someone who spent over 20 years dealing with Slav influenced English, this does not read to me as written by a Russian. Maybe he has been totally anglisied, but it does seem strange.

However it is emotional, and Slavs are certainly that. But certainly not "professional", and Slavs also do not like losing face.

A really strange passage.

May 19, 2012 at 2:59 PM | Unregistered CommenterJiminy Cricket

I totally agree, that was a very strange comment. Furthermore, there is no real substance in it in the complaint, nothing useful for the warmistas to deconstruct McI:s reconstruct! And the ending is just over the top, completely unwarranted.

It certainly looks like a schoolboy prank?

May 19, 2012 at 3:16 PM | Unregistered CommenterJonas N

http://di2.nu/foia/foia2011/mail/0112.txt
Curt , Rashit I can't believe the nonsense you are spouting,(...). What ib earth are you thinking?
(...).
I find it terribly irresponsible for you to be sending messages like this to Singer and Monckton McIntyre. You are speaking from ignorance here, and you must further know how your statements are going to be used. You could have sought some feedback from others who would have told you that you are speaking out of your depth on this. By instead simply blurting all of this nonsense out in an email to these sorts charlatans you've done some irreversible damage. shame on you for such irresponsible behavior! Mike Mann

May 19, 2012 at 3:21 PM | Unregistered Commentersplitpin

It's nice to see the mountain coming to Mohammed.

May 19, 2012 at 4:09 PM | Unregistered CommenterScottish Sceptic

I am only surprised to find you all think that "scientific discourse" has anything to do with climate scientists, or any of the institutions (all of them) suborned by the incompetent climate consensus. Honestly, your continuing naivety is just another symptom of why the "climate debate" is vain delusion, on both sides. The outlaws are the ones in charge--i.e., the "experts" are the very worst trolls, in everything they say and do--get that through your heads. All they have is their authority; they have no scientific sense, no physical insight at all (so why would you expect this Rashit Hantemirov to do any more than insult Steve McIntyre).

May 19, 2012 at 4:11 PM | Unregistered CommenterHarry Dale Huffman

May 19, 2012 at 4:11 PM Harry Dale Huffman

"so why would you expect this Rashit Hantemirov to do any more than insult Steve McIntyre"

Harry, please pay attention.

It's because it seems that he had, a short while previously, sent McIntyre the data he had wanted, with a cordial covering note.

May 19, 2012 at 4:44 PM | Registered CommenterMartin A

AGW Rules

#1 Never give your data to Steve M

#2 If you do, you never get a penny in grant money ever again

#3 If you accidentally give your data to Steve M, smear him.

#4 If you doubt our power to punish you, contact Wolfgang Wagner, FORMER editor of Remote Sensing.

May 19, 2012 at 5:36 PM | Unregistered CommenterBruce

You lend someone your car then shout at them for using petrol up.

Strange.

And Dozing in front of the Cricket is order of the day.

May 19, 2012 at 5:41 PM | Unregistered CommenterShevva

"It's because it seems that he had, a short while previously, sent McIntyre the data he had wanted, with a cordial covering note."

But he didn't know what Steve would do with it, did he?

Wouldn't have certainly imagined that Anthony Watts would 'crow' about it?

If there is a choice to be made between speaking for the data, and supporting your career, what would you do?

May 19, 2012 at 6:38 PM | Unregistered CommenterShub

change careers

May 19, 2012 at 7:34 PM | Registered CommenterMartin A

The world inhabited by "climate scientists" is like something out of 2000 AD.

May 19, 2012 at 7:38 PM | Registered CommenterMartin A

I believe Gavin and Michael Mann are one and the same - they share the same language, beliefs, hairstyle and beards.

And I have never seen them together.

May 19, 2012 at 7:44 PM | Unregistered CommenterMorph

Shub,

"But he didn't know what Steve would do with it, did he?"

Yes, maybe he thought Steve would use it to write the lyrics for a touching folk music ballad. Or, in the real world...

May 19, 2012 at 7:46 PM | Unregistered CommenterJames Evans

Such criticisms, less emotionally phrased, would perhaps be valid in review correspondence on a formally submitted paper, but this was a blog post for heavens sake.

It appears to me that Steve McIntyre has responded with impeccable professionalism in handling the situation, in contrast to eruptions typical of his more volatile opponents.

May 19, 2012 at 8:05 PM | Unregistered CommenterPharos

Maybe his English has improved a lot since the CG emails. Maybe someone else wrote it for him. Maybe it was a bout of vodka-driven remorse. But on the face of it, it is far less convincing than Boris and Natasha's Russian-English, dollink.

May 20, 2012 at 2:08 AM | Unregistered Commenterjohanna

I think until we know who posted the 'Hantemirov' comment it is pointless to speculate on the motives.

That said, like other posters who are familiar with the Russian language and Russian people, the posted comment does not ring true as coming from a Russian speaker. The correct use of colloquial English in the first sentence, of ‘concomitant’, of apostrophes, and the construction “You aren’t even ashamed..” all speak of a good knowledge of English. The last point is particularly telling as Russian has no word for ‘are’. Until I get confirmation otherwise, I’m assuming it was a spoof

A final small point, 'dishonour' was spelt in the English, not US, way.

May 20, 2012 at 4:00 AM | Unregistered CommenterRon

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