Monday
Feb272012
by 
Bishop Hill
Bishop Hill Off colour
Feb 27, 2012 Climate: Cuttings Blogging will be slow, I think. I'm a bit off colour, the new boiler is arriving today and there's work to be done.
In the meantime here are some bits and pieces:
James Delingpole was on the BBC Big Questions show. This was the programme that I was considered to appear on (James suggested me, I gather, for which thanks are due). The climate bit starts from 45 mins.
Congratulations are due to Steve M, Anthony W, Jo Nova and Tallbloke for their clean sweep in the Bloggies.
I've also had this transcript from Hansard sent to me. The noble lords are considering smart electricity meters. Their discussion may well be worthy of some analysis, although I am not going to get time to look at it myself for a while.
Reader Comments (58)
Did anyone else hear the BBC Radio 4 today program saying that "investment" in rip-off-wind was being put off due to a lack of confidence in the government's support.
They claimed that a whole lot of wind companies and research etc. etc, wasn't coming. I TOLD THE BBC BACK in 2001 that we'd get little if any companies or other benefit ... and the response I go was WHO CARES ABOUT THAT.
In other words the lack of 45,000 jobs that we were promised back in 2001 was no reason at all to not go ahead with the madness of wind. But as soon as wind's future is certain, up again comes the same old lie that jobs just around the corner are at risk.
This story Tory backlash takes wind out of green boom has been running as the lead on The Guardian for the past eight or so hours as viewed out here in the colony, Mike.
Sub head is: Investment in green energy grinds to a halt as companies doubt political commitment.
Got to get up early to be ahead of the Aussie...
Lord Whitty: "we can see that the data could be used to provide electricity in a smarter, more intelligent and more cost-effective way."
If this were really the reason for introducing smart meters, they could install one meter at the spur, or local ring, level of infrastructure. A spur often serves a small hamlet, a local ring can supply circa 10k households. This would be a much cheaper option.
"From the other end of the telescope, people are wondering why their supplier needs to know whether they have the kettle on at four o'clock in the afternoon."
I think the main concern is the ability of the supplier to switch off one's supply at will. Of course if everyone has a smart meter fitted by law, I expect there will be different classes of user. I expect our noble Lords will not be in the same class of user when it comes to switching off supply to sections of society, when the inevitable consequences of the current disgraceful level of supply planning means there is not enough supply to go around.
Smart electric meters will let them charge you by the time of day.
Some also let the electric company turn off appliances in YOUR home.
Just another step towards big brother and government control of every detail of your life.
Thanks
JK
Re: Frosty
"we can see that the data could be used to provide electricity in a smarter, more intelligent and more cost-effective way."
How do you provide electricity in a "smarter" way at the meter? The only "way" I can think of is the ability to selectively cut peoples access to power. This means that when the wind don't blow and sun don't shine they can cut power to non-essential domestic customers instead of cutting power to a whole region.
Smart meters, eh? We were told, some time last year, that these were now mandatory here in Melbourne, and that a man ("I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you.") would be along a few days later to fit one.
My wife telephoned the fitter and said no, not today, thank you, and that was the last we heard.
Keep it in mind.
Re: Jim Warlock
This will require a dongle in your appliance. I will happily void the warranty on my domestic appliances and remove any of these dongles.
I considered Smart Meters as quite a good option when they first emerged as a viable technology. I would be able to choose when I boiled my kettle, dried my clothes, washed the dishes and had a shower based on the spot price at the time I was going to carry out the task But no - the GREAT CENTRALISERS took the other option. THEY would TELL ME when I could do these things. THEY would pry into MY life and run the country based on the information THEY would glean from THEIR installation in MY house. There was even a small debate as to whether or not I would even be able to get the data from my own meter to do my own analysis rather than pay them for me to use their systems for analysing my usage.
Even Orwell couldn't envisage that level of intrusion. Google can!
There is a case for using smart meters together with a "smart" tariff structure to help manage demand.
As we all know, off-peak power is relatively cheap. If meters record when power is used as well as how much is taken it will encourage people to run heavy loads at off-peak times - dishwashers, washing machines, driers, water heaters, etc..
It should be a win-win. Consumers get cheaper power and the utility gets a smoothed demand which allows it to make better use of its cheapest and cleanest power sources.
All it needs is a bit of tech in the meter/switchboard. (There is no need for the extra wiring etc of "Economy 7").
And it works.
France has been doing this for at least 20 years. Off-peak power is about 60% of the full rate (already much cheaper than the UK).
Also the meters are read remotely.
It is baffling why we are flapping around with something which will not even do what has been standard abroad for decades - and it will cost us a fortune.
Go well, your Grace. Hope you feel on form soon,
This Guardian article was linked to in Unthreaded by matthu: Wind energy companies fear government's commitment is cooling
Smart meters and wind energy are not 'upgrades'. People and businesses cannot budget for their energy use if they don't have a good idea how much it will cost.
Best wishes, Bish, for becoming 'on colour' a.s.a.p. - and for your new boiler to be fixed today1
I watched the 'big question' thing - the climate bit, that is.
I wish someone would ask those bishops and politicians - who are not exactly 'blessed' with low and fixed incomes - how come our own generation of 'ancestors' (cf that Welsh female politician) is being made to pay now, today, so that they (bishops/politicians) can look good as 'ancestors' for their families in decades to come?
And can someone ask those bishops if it isn't hybris to assume that we can actually stop or changes something which has been going on on this planet since it became a planet? I understand Christians are meant to look after this world, as stewards. It doesn't say anywhere that this means everybody, Christians or not, have to be forced by law to do this, does it?
Finally - now we know why the socialists are so much in luurrrrve with AGW. That politician woman came right out with it: it ain't about the climate, it is about 'social justice', a term beloved by all lefties.
Pity nobody ever asks them about a bit of social justice for the elderly who are dying in their unheated homes because they cannot afford to pay for those glorious, socially just, green shibboleths.
Gawd, lent or not - I am so cross, I could bang some socialist heads together, right now. And those of the trendy leftie bishops as well, for good measure.
Mike H
Smart meters have the potential to provide the consumer with greater choice with regard to purchase of electricity. At their worse they are simply a way of automatically reading your meter and snooping on your energy use. However if proper thought goes into their deployment consumers may be able to control when and from whom they buy electricity to take advantage of differential prices. As an example, you could instruct your meter to wait until the price of electricity (or ahem ...its carbon content!) to drop below a certain threshold before switching on your washing machine. I suspect that the iphone generation will make good use of this technology - there will be an App for that.
Ed
Nice to see Lembik, (who assures us that he has a scientific background), has such a firm grasp on the science. He is suffering under the delusion that the antartic is either sinking or melting, and that the fact that there is more co2 in the atmosphere than before is incontrovertable proof that man is causing global warming. (neatly side-stepping the observed fact that the X3 positive feedback assumed by the CAGW crowd has been seems not to exist, more rather there seems to be a slight -ve feedback if anything).
A useful little technical trick, that also works for YouTube, is this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01cvmg5/The_Big_Questions_Series_5_Episode_8/?t=46m03s
That takes you straight to the segment in question - just add the ?t= and the time.
Try it here.
My aged Father-in-Law had a 'not quite so smart' meter installed that informed him of his household fuel usage, temp etc. Having only his OAP pension and his savings he was very careful about his expenditure. However, he became so focused on the little machine on the mantle piece and its dire message that he was forever turning the thermostat down or, worse, the boiler off. I feel sure that he was not alone in that respect.
Everyone in both Houses of Parliament who are considering the Smart Meter issue earns far too much money to understand the additional impact of such toys.
The same argument applies to the costs of 'decarbonisation'; the legislators are utterly unaffected by the finacial impact, and from what I can see, are inured to the personal impact their decisions have. Perhaps Mr Cameron's Father-in-Law and his pals who are very cognisant of the gains to be made from wind turbines could explain.
Or then again perhaps such collateral damage is well understood.
I'm with Viv, I too have just watched the Big Question" and spent a considerable amount of time swearing at my computer (only some of it due to the constant buffering - broadband speed here in Greece is unreliable). When you see how many people just "know" we are killing the planet with all this CO2, without even being able to understand the issue at all, you realise how far we have to go to get through the walls of "Settled Science" erected by the MSM.
.......and I thought we were winning!
Sorry to hear you're under the weather, Bishop. Hope it gets better soon.
On weather, here in northern Japan, we've had 40cm of snow (aka global warming) today. It's been an exceptional winter here, with the lowest temperatures and heaviest snow in 30 years. It started snowing in mid-December, and has snowed pretty much continuously since. The snowpack in town is now over 2.5 metres deep.
This morning I cleared 15cm of overnight snow before breakfast. Then there was another 15cm to clear before lunch. After lunch I had to clear an additional 10cm. It's now evening, and snowing, but the wind has dropped and it's not driven.
Tonight's NHK news reported that the severe winter weather was due to La Nina amplifying the Siberian high pressure system over central/north Asia, and its effect on the jet stream. No mention of globull worming. In Japan, the MSM seems to be taking its lead from science. Proper science, that is.
Feb 27, 2012 at 9:59 AM | MikeH
I've no idea where you live in France but I am a councillor here in the SW and I can promise you that everything you say is not applicable here.
I'm with Viv, I too have just watched the Big Question" and spent a considerable amount of time swearing at my computer (only some of it due to the constant buffering - broadband speed here in Greece is unreliable). When you see how many people just "know" we are killing the planet with all this CO2, without even being able to understand the issue at all, you realise how far we have to go to get through the walls of "Settled Science" erected by the MSM.
.......and I thought we were winning!
You are absolutely right. I keep saying that we are a long way from the end of the road and we will never get there without MSM following up GW (non) work.
I didn't listen too carefully to the segment but it's worth noting I think that James Delingpole on TV is not only cheeky and amusing (as in print) but courteous - which some would say he's not in print! I thought it was particularly cool to say to the Bishop (the real bishop, with apologies to our host!) that he'd probably been concentrating on writing his sermons than the details of global warming.
Not that I think James was as snappy as was needed on the science and policy overlap. But it's a chaotic situation making it hard to reach in and bring out exactly the right soundbites. The main thing is that he came across (and he has always done, in my viewing, with the possible exception of the Paul Nurse Horizon effort) as amusing and relaxed, within reason (because this stuff is important too).
There is a case for using smart meters together with a "smart" tariff structure to help manage demand.
As we all know, off-peak power is relatively cheap. If meters record when power is used as well as how much is taken it will encourage people to run heavy loads at off-peak times - dishwashers, washing machines, driers, water heaters, etc..
It should be a win-win. Consumers get cheaper power and the utility gets a smoothed demand which allows it to make better use of its cheapest and cleanest power sources.
All it needs is a bit of tech in the meter/switchboard. (There is no need for the extra wiring etc of "Economy 7").
And it works.
France has been doing this for at least 20 years. Off-peak power is about 60% of the full rate (already much cheaper than the UK).
Also the meters are read remotely.
It is baffling why we are flapping around with something which will not even do what has been standard abroad for decades - and it will cost us a fortune.
Feb 27, 2012 at 9:59 AM | MikeH
I had to read this twice. I couldn't believe it the first time. You are being really obtuse. The CEO of the UK national grid said last year. Consumers will have to get used to the idea that they cannot have electricity at the flick of a switch. Now you see why smart meters. When the wind blows you can have heat and power. When it doesnt, tough $hlt. Unfortunately for the brits when it's extremely cold the wind doesn't blow. Fortunately for the rest of the world that means that a lot of elderly and young brits will die each winter and their ecomony will become 3rd world while the 3rd world's becomes 1st world.
On the Big Question:-
I knew they had lost when the ex welsh assembly member said: "People are looking at "particular circumstance rather than the big picture".
In other words, they've lost on the evidence .... they don't have particular circumstances to back up their case. All they were left with is the hand waving arguments:
"isn't conserving resources good ...",
"don't you think we must be having some effect on climate ....",
"Don't you think we should all be con-cerned ..."
MikeH/Stephen Richards
Nor in Saone-et-Loire! There is an economy tariff available as there has been for years in the UK but there it ends. The idea of being able to micro-manage your electricity supply to that extent is not something I have heard of unless there are systems operating in the likes of Paris or Lyon.
EddieO
We'll not have any of that talk, matey! Give that sort of freedom to the people and you don't know where it might end. You'll be wanting a referendum on Europe next!No meltie, we're not winning we've already lost, or should I say, we're at Stalingrad. We've been swept aside and are backed into a corner, the only thing stopping total warmist victory is reality. The reality of their hare-brained scheme to save the planet by destroying western industrial civilisation, the reality that if we do distribute wealth to the world's indigents it won't get to them, the reality that China, India, Brazil and other countries dragging their people out of permanent poverty aren't likely to stop their progress by reducing CO2 emissions on the basis of the say so of a small group of scientist activists centred in the UK and USA. These are the realities that have stopped the warmist advance, we now need to get the debate they're saying they are being denied by the Heartland Institute going. We now need to get into the public consciousness the known facts about CO2 and the massive uncertainties being hidden from the public by climate science activists. We now need to get the people's attention to the fact that the same people claiming to save the planet for our grandchildren are in fact playing dice with future electicity supplies, and we almost certainly will finish up with fuel poverty caused by high prices (to discourage the use of energy) and shortages caused by an obstinate refusal to move to nuclear and an idiotic (not to say Quixotic) notion that the future electicity supplies can be supplied by windmills.Thank heaven for the realities, because it's going to take a generation to get these pests out of the democratic process, don't forget these are the same people who have continued to lobby against the use of DDT over a period of time when 40 million human beings have died from malaria. They are reckless with human life in their search to satisfy themselves they're good human beings.
We are having small victories, here and there, but while we were sleeping these zealots have infiltrated every aspect of our society and virtually closed off all debate. They've managed to conflate our genuine challenges to the science and the policies with "flat earth" belief and "intelligent design" in the minds of the politicians. They even have a catechism giving them constant phrases to trot out, the most recent one being anyone who challenges them is "anti-science". There are upsides, they are generally speaking arrogant and as thick as two short planks, (Professors can be thick, just look how Steve Jones demanded less debate, or how the execrably embarrassing programme produced by Nurse, dealt with the science by telling the viewers that humans put seven times more CO2 in the atmosphere while the Nobel Prize holder nodded sagely). As time goes by the realities will seep into the public consciousness, the question in my mind is, will they seep in before our democratic freedoms have been taken away, or after, because, reluctantly, I've come to the view that they want to take away our democratic freedoms because it is precisely those freedoms that make the politicians baulk at the prospect of taking us into poverty.
Get well soon Bish.
Any guess on how the catastrophiliacs will justify the Bloggies disaster (for them)?
stephen richards If meters record when power is used as well as how much is taken it will encourage people to run heavy loads at off-peak times - dishwashers, washing machines, driers, water heaters, etc..
It should be a win-win.
Unfortunately, that is another huge con, that the UK has had foisted on it with little or no resistance. The Electricity unions, lobbied the sofa government to create a monopoly for registered unionists (they call them tradesmen, but they are just an old fashioned union).
They used the lie that "electricity kills thousands of people a year". The truth is that mains electricity is linked with a couple of hundred fires each year and very few are fatal. In contrast, electricity appliances cause I'd guess 99%+ of all fires.
The deaths of damage from fire would have been dramatically reduced if everyone were forced to have an RCD fusebox ... and it largely removes any problems of DIY electricians (the only problem I've ever had was when we got a "professional" to wire up the plumbing for part of an extension).
In other words, like global warming, the idiots in government went for entirely the wrong target. The big killer in the UK from electricity is appliances, and particularly appliances left on when not attended.
So, before we embark on encouraging people to run appliances overnight ... we need to first get rid of the stupid laws on DIY electricity, which e.g. stops me putting in a socket at my mother's house.
We then need to encourage and/or force (I don't like it, but it would save many innocent lives like children) RCD breaker systems in all houses.
Then ... I was going to say regular testing, but the RCD system does in effect test the appliances.
But, you should only run appliances overnight in a room with a house-wide smoke detector system and RCD breakers.
.... but of course, the electricity unions don't care tuppence for people's health and safety, only finding a way to line their own pockets by forcing people to use their members.
"Any guess on how the catastrophiliacs will justify the Bloggies disaster?"
It's a right-wing conspiracy, I tells ya! You'd think that RC might have done a bit better, with all their corporate assistance, though...
Mike H
>There is no need for the extra wiring etc of "Economy 7"
There isn't much - just a clock for the storage heaters. Everything else simply costs less between midnight and 7am, the trade-off being that it's slightly more than standard rate during the day. Works for us...
What is clear from the BBC Big Questions show is that cAGW is polluting the energy and environmental arguements to such an extent that when the $hit does hit the proverbial fan both the energy and environmental agruements will fall completely. When people discover the extent that they have been lied to the politicians and scientists will have no where to hide. That is going to cause unnecessary damage.
"stupid laws on DIY electricity, which e.g. stops me putting in a socket at my mother's house"
Quite agree. One of the immediate unintended consequences is that the workaround is to run an extension lead along the floor, which is both a fire risk and a trip hazard. Well done, chaps!
"Any guess on how the catastrophiliacs will justify the Bloggies disaster?"
By ignoring them completely, of course!
Mike H/Stephen Richards/Mike Jackson
Just checked my electricity bill:
Heures creuses (off-peak) 0.0557 euro/kWh
Heures pleines 0.0901 euro/kWh
We have a big well-insulated hot water cylinder on a time switch. We're happy with the price and the lads on the night shift down at the Centrale Nucleaire are happy to get shot of the leccy. Simples.
I'm beginning to think that it will be a good thing if the Bishops loose their seats in the Lords - they are mostly a bunch of Pinkoes these days (apologies to our host, of course).
Has anyone experienced their posts being held up, I put one in about an 30 mins ago and it still hasn't appeared just a message saying it would be considered by an editor. A new one for me.
IMO smart meters would be a desired step for electrification of private transport. The Gov. would need some way to raise equivalent revenue from the transport fuel portion of electricity consumption - SMs will allow for tax tariffs according to end use.
"The new boiler is arriving today and there's work to be done."
Make sure the condensate drain pipe is properly sited (with a decent "fall" to prevent water build up), and lagged to prevent it from freezing. You don't want your expensive "Low Carbon" heating system to shut down when it gets really cold....
Get well soon.
nby
"electrification of private transport"
Sounds all too plausible. Having decreed that vehicle licenses will be charged according to CO2 output, they are desperate for a revenue stream if/when 'zero CO2' vehicles become popular! Actually, I think the greenies have (again) exaggerated their appeal, and unless battery technology improves/cheapens dramatically, they will only ever be for the fringe, but of course it still looks like a real problem to the politicians.
Presumably, owning an electric car will greatly reduce your chances of being cut off.. :-)
I have watched Dlingpole a few times now and I'm afraid I think he lets people off the hook too easily. He is not ruthless enough.
Lembit Dooda, "every one knows Antartica is melting".
Get in, go for the jugluar!
Tell me how much melting has occurred in Antartica Lembit?
Dreadnought
I make that 4.6 and 7.6p/unit, which I suppose just shows how much we are paying for the bloody windmills!
Right - roll forward ten years - and the government has achieved its target of having (say) 50% of electric vehicles on the road.
These are currently subsidised; don't pay road tax; don't pay fuel duty - and only 5% VAT on the electricity used; and don't pay the Congestion Charge (I always thought an electric car would take up the same amount of road space as a conventional car - but I digress...)...
Does anyone SERIOUSLY believe that the Treasury would give up all that lovely tax revenue in the name of 'carbon reduction'..?
No - neither do I. They'll just wait until there's a sufficient number of electric cars on the road - then they'll hit them with some form of road tax; a mileage charge; proper VAT on the charging current - and, I suspect, a special tax on replacement batteries...
Of similar interest is the that the source of information that the people on Big Question like the Bishop and Lembit Opik quote is often third and fourth hand. Lembit was incorrectly quoting aspects that he could have only gleaned from natural history TV programmes, whilst the Bishop was floundering on the original source for the claim of 50 million climate refugees. This represents a large degree of misunderstanding by people who claim to represent us and make decisions on our behalf. These people seem to be more ignorant of the facts about climate science than the general public who are growing more sceptical by the day.
Get well soon.
-Best
"not ruthless enough"
But it's easy to think of answers on the way home (esprit d'escalier). JD's a writer, and probably doesn't think on his feet the way some do. I know I don't!
David
"the government has achieved its target of having (say) 50% of electric vehicles on the road"
It won't happen without some yet-to-be-invented storage system. The trouble is that HMG doesn't realise that and knowing that we also have power stations about to close, is factoring it into the equation.
Sorry to hear that you're not feeling too well, your Lordship - probably due to the unseasonal WARM weather you're having up there, when you would normally be thanking your lucky stars you're not a brass monkey..!
Just waiting for some smartass to blame it on 'global warming/climate change'....
(P.S. Last Thursday - 23rd Feb - had the roof down on the Saab - it was ok..!)
"I always thought an electric car would take up the same amount of road space as a conventional car"
More, if the batteries run down in the middle of traffic. Sales of small generators (or long jump leads) may soon be on the increase!
Feb 27, 2012 at 12:02 PM geronimo
Has anyone experienced their posts being held up, I put one in about an 30 mins ago and it still hasn't appeared just a message saying it would be considered by an editor. A new one for me.
Yes.
They appear eventually.
I have the impression that including a url is usually what provokes it.
Bish - if the condensate outflow pipe is in a cold part of the house or north facing wall I recommend one of these - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-5m-ELECTRIC-HEATING-CABLE-PIPE-TRACE-HEATER-FROST-PROTECTION-230V-37W-/170791300072?pt=UK_Home_Garden_Hearing_Cooling_Air&hash=item27c3f46be8 or similar.
Get well soon, if if is the sore throat thing I had last week I know how you are feeling.
It's in the basement, so it doesn't get too cold.