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The definitive history of Climategate.
A few sites I've stumbled across recently....
Fay-Kelly Tuncay is having another shot at an epetition to repeal the Climate Change Act.
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"Fay-Kelly Tuncay is having another shot at an epetition to repeal the Climate Change Act."
May I read that as ...another shot at an epitaph... Bishop?
Fay-Kelly Tuncay is epetitioning in the wind!
Well if this little beauty parks itself over Northern Europe for a month then there may well be enough signatures for a debate to be triggered.
SandyS - see here
Re the petition, Fay's got the figures wrong. The ONS say that 21,700 people lost their lives last year as a result of the cold.
It makes a very sensible point, the petition, and its probably completely pointless. Unfortunately. The only way this madness is going to end is when it is apparent to everyone that (i) its been politically impossible to make the prescribed carbon reductions (ii) nothing much has happened anyway. I guess it will take another ten years.
The continuing recession will probably pretty soon force revision of the feed-in tariffs. Then it will all be over for continuing investment in turbines and solar. But its going to take a little longer for the failure to warm to kick into the national consciousness.
Read up about the Millerites. The world did not come to the end when they said it would, but it did not shake their faith. In the same way, all kinds of explanations will be offered and believed about why it is 'really' getting hotter and hotter, though the thermometers keep falling.
"It makes a very sensible point, the petition, and its probably completely pointless."
So what would you suggest?
As our pensioners freeze to death because of high fuel bills to pay for "green taxes", our crazy government is proudly spending billions of pounds of our money to send windmills to Africa, in order to mitigate the effects of "climate change".
At least Fay is doing something!
The rackets are so lucrative and so ingtained, it will take a lot more than an e-petition to repeal the CCA. E-petitions are just a way to kid people they can influence things, whereas the government intends to do exactly what suits it.
Unfortunately, it will have to come to the poor, the vulnerable and the elderly, being visibly and undeniably hurt on an immense scale, which no figleaves like winter fuel allowances can cover.
"E-petitions are just a way to kid people they can influence things"
NO - it worked for Hillsborough.
I agree with Roger, at least she's trying although I hold no great hopes of success.I watched a long documentary on the 1978 Jonestown massacre, Extraordinary, and quite moving. For me at least, there seemed to be great similarities between the 'Jones faithful' and the CAGW believers. Both groups fail to give up their beliefs even though the evidence continues to mount against them, similar to the Millerites mentioned by Michel. Humans have an amazing ability to self- delude.
The thing that worries me is that the power generating companies will not raise the necessary capital to build the low carbon generation that government requires to meet its pointless targets unless government underwrites the cost and government intends to do that by taxing energy consumption in one way or another. So once there is a commitment to a particular project there will be no turning back. The artificially high cost of energy will be enshrined for the 30+ years of the project. Be under no illusions the idiots that are currently running the asylum mean to bankrupt not only the current generation but future generations too. This is the short cut to third world status. UK=FUBAR.
That is why we have to do all we can. I applaud Fay. At least she is trying. She deserves our support.
I also agree with Roger (and Fay) - if a week is a long time in politics, who knows what the political landscape will be like in a few years' time. Things that seem almost hopeless now may gain traction, and things that appear to be rock-solid certainties now may turn to dust in the wind, like the reigns of Mubarak, Gaddafi and Assad.
Also, we have Zed's seal of disapproval, which, as always, I find very heartening! ;)
I agree to some extent - it is an attempt to do something. The answer might be that its an effort to register opinions that already exist. That is probably worth doing, maybe I was too pessimistic. The other thing however that is maybe more important is to communicate and increase the number of people that look at this rationally.
Read the Guardian today, and the comments really are full of people who think that driving hybrids is somehow planet-friendly. That the UK can somehow combat climate change by installing wind turbines. Its quite mad. The main problem facing skeptics is one of education. Education in the most basic parameters of the thing.
Effectively successive governments have identified a group whose pockets can be picked but that cannot vote against them. This group is of course the unborn.
jeremyp99 I'm probably unusual amongst sceptics in that in general terms I don't think that mankind has/is making any measurable changes to global climate. I think, without any peer reviewed research, that it has been warmer/colder/drier/wetter/stormier/getting wrm more quickly/getting warm more slowly/getting cold more quickly/getting cold more slowly ad infinitum in the earths history and therefore the climate isn't changing it's used continuing as usual. "As usual" being changing in its own sweet way in its own sweet time.
I posted this elsewhere on BH but I'll repeat it here as it has some relevance:-
When we get good at Carbon Capture we'll be able to control the climate to a fine degree, model says next ten years too cold just release a load of GHG; model says next ten years too warm capture a load of GHG. It's the logical conclusion of AGW and Carbon Capture theories surely? Who is going to say what is too hot the sub-saharan nations and too cold the Russians? More likely an unelected UN IPCC.
Imagine, a department as well as an Act abolished!
Does anyone know of a department that was ever abolished, not merged into another and all staff and funding continued?
I'm sure, should the petition succeed, that our 'representatives' will just rush to leave the EU. Telling them, on the way out, with two 'Long Bow Archer fingers', that "we won't be doin' no more CO2 related nonsense".
Realistically, Goldman will be on the phone within minutes of the announcement (as will their 'reps' at the BoE, Italy and the Fed) explaining to the 'PM' that he needs to get his loose cannons in order. Hundreds of Billions are at risk in the next quarter - don't ya know.
Only scaffold outside Whitehall has ever stopped the 'fuel poverty' murdering bas****s.... History tells us so. Lock and load boys and girls or you will be freezing to death as your Lords send out their troops to steal your carefully gathered winter winter fuel. Nothing much has changed in 500 years.
If I can steal your labour instead of labouring myself ...
It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.
Henry Ford - apparently. And he makes a fair point. Theft requires much less effort than labour.
I think the point of the petition is to widen the circle of support. The last petition had 1500 signatures, let's try and increase on that number.
I apologise for the typo on fuel poverty - I just missed the extra 0 due to not wearing my reading glasses.
We do have 378 signatures on the first day, so not bad. I am sending this Christmas message out (see below) to various women's groups. You might like to circulate it amongst friends by email, facebook or twitter.
Help us send our “Enough is enough” Christmas message to Decc Minister Ed Davey to repeal, suspend or amend the  Climate Change Act to get our fuel and energy bills down and save 3.5 million British children living in poverty from being cold and hungry this Christmas.
Climate legislation is hurting millions of British children who are our future – by killing their parents jobs, stagnating wages, increased living costs on fuel, energy, public transport, clothes and food.
A recent report by Save the Children shows that poverty leaves children without a warm coat or new shoes. It means they miss out on experiences that are central to a happy childhood, such as going on a family holiday or having a friend round for tea or having a few gifts at Christmas time.Enough is enough! Ed Davey repeal the Climate Change Act now!
SIGN OUR NEW E-PETITION AND SHARE ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTERhttp://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/42784
I agree with you Ms Tuncay. It is like water boarding the government, if we keep at them, one drip at a time eventually one of them , Dimwit Davey or Barking Barker, Trougher Yeo, and Dozey Deben will begin to realize that handing £2 billion to dictators in the Continent with the lowest winds speeds is about as dumb as it gets. You could almost hear the ringing of the tills as Swiss accounts were opened from Africa and Columbia in readiness to receive their windfall.http://hydrology.princeton.edu/~justin/research/project_global_monitor/figures/2012/20120630/figure_map_africa_wind.gif. It would appear that Somalia is the only place with strong enough winds in East Africa. I suppose sawing up Ed's turbines and selling them for scrap will be a safer business than Piracy.
Just signed and noted only 405 signatures.I'm afraid this is not going to make a difference.
In any case just got this letter (see below) from my MP in response to my complaint about BBC bias in Climate Change.He wouldn't even admit the list was genuine! Nor does he agree that only a limited range of views were present.
You can see the kind of mindset we are up against.
Thank you for writing to me with your concerns about the BBC Trust and the BBC’s reporting of climate change science.
I do appreciate your concerns that the attendees of the BBC’s ‘high-level seminar’, where it was decided that there was enough evidence about climate change to justify not giving equal space to “the opponents of the consensus”, were originally withheld from the public. I would have like to have seen a greater amount of transparency on this point. However, it remains the case that the FOI request made by Mr Tony Newbery to reveal the names of the attendees was denied.
Because the BBC has not published the list of attendees we can only speculate as to whether the list you have provided is indeed accurate. To my mind the list – whether it is correct or not – is impressive in that it suggests a wide range of views would have been represented, including a number of experts in the field.
I appreciate that you are likely to disagree with my interpretation of whether those mentioned on the list are experts or not. However, I am satisfied that the list is not compromised of merely alarmists and activists.
Furthermore, although the seminar was significant as it was on this occasion that the decision to accept climate change as a fact was made by the Trust, the BBC have engaged with a huge range of scientific experts to discuss this issue since then. In your letter you have asked why scientist from the Met Office and other experts in various fields of research were not included in the seminar’s attendees list. I would like to point out that on numerous occasions the BBC has collaborated extensively with the Open University, Met Office and academics from a number of distinguished institutions to produce broadcasts and news articles concerning climate change and I am afraid that I do not share your concerns about the BBC Trust having breached its charter in the ways which you have suggested.
As a former scientist I know all too well the need to work from a solid evidence base. Indeed, this is a principal which I apply to politics as well. I am proud that the Lib Dems are a party which believe in evidence-based policy making and if I thought that an institution as important and as influential as the BBC has developed its policy towards climate change on anything but the most reliable and compelling evidence then I would raise my concerns with the Government in the strongest possible terms and without hesitation.
Although I do not share your views I would like to thank you for taking the time to make me aware of your concerns. I hope that you receive a helpful response from the Director of the BBC Trust.
Member of Parliament for Cambridge
When the left wants to influence the government it puts 10,000 people on the streets.
How many people can you guys put on the streets?
Well, I signed! Might be pi$$ing in the wind, but it's probably the only protest I can make,,,,and in support of DK's post, IMO my local (tory) MP is part of the scam, and is as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike - my last correspondence with him resulted in a response that clearly indicated that he has no time for the "little people" - particularly those of us who are no longer members of the party.
Disaffected Tory? Me? You betcha!
Guess who I'll be voting for?
@ George Steiner The 'National Climate March' only had 300 on the street. Not many.I think we could do better. Climate change never became a mass movement.
It is not just Climate change Madam Tuncay. Britain is where it is because its conservatives use chopsticks while the left uses bayonets on rifles.
If the British were really intelligent they would learn from those crass Americans and organize a conservative movement to rival the Tea Party.
George Steinernothing stopping you organising a Tea Party (UK) if you feel so strongly about it. Or you become a UKIP activist.
"conservatives use chopsticks while the left uses bayonets on rifles"
An interesting soundbite, with content rating of absolute zero. What are you on?
Your MP didn't say in which branch of science he obtained his degree - might be interesting.
I think you should name and shame your MP.
HuhneToTheSlammer, regarding scientists:
"NO - it worked for Hillsborough."
NO - what worked was Burnham pushing for the enquiry - from inside the bubble. uk.gov et al are quite happy to ignore e-petitions whenever they feel like it.
Julian Muppet MP is a LibDem
A Fair, Green EconomyIt is unfair that bankers get million pound bonuses while essential public services face the threat of years of cutbacks caused by the financial crisis.
I believe it’s key that we create jobs that will last, by promoting green technologies that will generate wealth for the country and tackle climate change.
In government, the Liberal Democrat’s flagship Green Deal energy efficiency scheme, will create more that 30,000 new green jobs over the next three years alone.
Over the next two years 3.5 million homes will be insulated through the Green Deal, with a renewed focus on those in fuel poverty – those who need it most. With nothing on this scale having been attempted before, the potential benefits represent a unique chance to make all homes energy efficient. Pensioners are often those living in greatest fuel poverty. My priority is making sure their heating bills are lowered so that they never have to choose between heating their homes and putting food on the table. It’s a scandal that more deaths are caused by winter cold in Britain than anywhere else in Europe – including Scandinavia!
Here in Cambridge, we work hard on committing to an ambitious reduction in carbon intensity, which will generate many thousands of jobs. Our local science-based industry is already leading the way in green technology; conducting a cost-effectiveness analysis on renewable energy options. The government needs to back renewable technologies by boosting markets for new products and creating jobs for graduates. I’m proud to represent a city that is leading the way in growth of these technologies.
Seems strange to complain about Winter deaths and Carbon intensity in the same page but he sounds just like an angry student protester.
"epetition" I didn't read that as e-petition the first time through, and thought it might be a typo/misspelling of repetition.
From Bouvier's Law Dictionary,
“REPETITION, civil law. The act by which a person demands and seeks to recover what he has paid by mistake, or delivered on a condition which has not been performed.”
Maybe an e-petition of repetition is in order—on both sides of the pond. Then there are those poor antipodeans who have been well and truly screwed over.
Mr. or Ms. steveta, it was not a soundbite. It was more like a comparison, a contrast, an antithesis. Perhaps this will help you to understand.
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