Wednesday
Aug242011
by 
Bishop Hill
Bishop Hill 4.3 Mb of what?
Aug 24, 2011 Climate: Mann FOI Anthony Watts has had a few tantalising details of the Mann email release: 4.3Mb and 3827 pages. But of what? Like Anthony, my suspicion is that all the good bits are going to be withheld.
Reader Comments (28)
Prof. Michael E. Mann probably has some sore fingers after that retyping exercise. It will be amusing to see where the inconsistencies lie - e.g. in tying up the Wahl email deletion timeline.
Well, just for the hell of it, here's a different kind of bone to chew on:
http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2011/08/24/on-mann-mania/
James Fallows. Journalist.
Get this.
If you don't believe Penn State, you are 'anti-science'.
I think I'll use my own judgement and look at the evidence directly, than listen to self-lobotomized journalists and columnists like James Fallows. At least Clive Crook had some guts.
'
I like it how Kloor carries around the word 'anti-science', like a convenient whip:
Replace "justice" with "anti-science" from above.
Kloor,
You lack the savvy to examine the scientific evidence for catastrophic global warming so you present others' mindless leftist ideology while pretending to be impartial yourself.
We get it.
You and Chris Mooney would make a perfect couple. He'd be the brains of the outfit.
Hey Shub, you extrapolate just one citation (Penn State), when it's obvious Fallows is referring to the sum of all the investigations.
Dude, you are priceless, and that's not even counting the anonymous pen name adopted from a famous H.P. Lovecraft character.
The NSF, NOAA, PSU, UEA/CRU and UVa? What is the essential aspect that they all have in common?
What they all have in common is that they are directly publically funded and publically chartered institutions. Thus they have the direct potential to be influenced by ‘in situ’ politics, by government funding organizations and by political activists.
It is very important to note that there has not yet been a single independent review of M. Mann, Climategate and the IPCC. When that happens, I will become less skeptical of this multitude of 'exonerations'.
Note: Has anyone actually seen science (without gov’t intervention) policing itself? I am sincerely asking, not a rhetorical question.
John
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/08/24/breaking-news-cern-experiment-confirms-cosmic-rays-influence-climate-change/#more-45793
The final nail?
The immediate victory is that Mann has been forced to admit he is not above the law.
But more importantly, He has had to admit that what was contained in those emails is the legitimate concern of law officers and that the judge felt there was sufficient evidence of criminal activity to warrant further investigation.
Mann has finally been forced to admit his actions provide sufficient basis for criminal investigation
Keith 'Kamal' Kloor, I presume.
Keith Kloor
You did well hosting the Judith Gavin joust. What happened?
Mike Haseler -
I don't understand your contention. I'm assuming you're referring to the main post, which discusses the release of some Mann emails. First, Mann is not a party to the action, which is ATI vs. the University of Virginia. Second, what the judge said is that UVa's holdings are subject to Freedom of Information requests. And also subject to the regulations concerning the privacy of student records, which seem to be of higher priority. The judge said nothing at all about criminal activity or criminal investigation.
Pharos,
What do you mean, what happened? Care to expand?
Kloor,
How's about addressing my assertion that renowned brain-donor Chris Mooney is smarter than you?
Can commenters please watch the tone of their remarks.
FergalR,
I think Chris is smarter than me. He's written a bunch of books at a relatively young age and still has a full head of hair. I've written no books, have to wear baseball caps on sunny days and dammit, I have to trim my ear hair. His blog is housed at a mainstream Science magazine. I'm in the backwoods. And so on.
But the idea that we might make for a "perfect couple" would make him barf.You can start here:
http://www.collide-a-scape.com/2011/05/31/chris-mooneys-epiphany/
Keith
It is obvious that NOAA performed no Climategate investigation of any merit. Nor did any of the 'European counterparts'. Penn State decided that no invesgitation was necessary at the inquiry stage. The NSF, for God know what reason, reexamined Penn State's premises and found them adequate - as in, it performed no investigation on its own.
Let us say, hypothetically, that a landmark case is on and, say, I accuse you of destroying evidence. Let us say you turn up at court and show the judge some scraps of paper. The judge, then turns around and decrees:
How would you feel?
It wouldn't matter even if all the greatest scientists in the world came and conducted such inquiries and exonerated Mike Mann - if this is what they did. He may really be an innocent angel baby - but that doesn't matter. No inquiry has yet looked at the potential charges that can arise from Climategate w.r.t to Mann. Therefore I don't swallow their prounouncements.
And whoever calls this 'anti-science', is an idiot.
To my mind the most important allegation arising from Climategate is that of undermining peer review. Yet none of the inquiries has yet determined what communications there were between members of the Hockey Team and Saiers, Famiglietti and GRL; von Storch and Climate Research and so on.
Kloor says : "I think Chris is smarter than me."
In that case you're a demi-retard:
http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2010/07/25/on-the-incivility-of-atheists-tom-johnson-and-exhibit-a/
KK
I have to say CaS seems to me to have changed from a cordial but lively debating place to something too frequently involving rancour and enmity.
I know exactly what you mean Pharos. I used to visit CaS daily, but it became clear that it was turning into a sort of Deltoid-Lite. KK seemed to be allowing this to happen rather than dealing sharply with the serial offenders of both sides of the argument. I no longer go there at all.
@ FergalR. I can see that KK has got under your skin and I sympathise. However, is it really necessary to be quite so aggressive and to address him only as Kloor? Seems a little impolite. Can't we leave that kind of thing to the warmists? They're so much better at it than we are ;)
Pharos,
If you're referring to my responses to commenters, well, I have less patience for the usual BS talking points trotted out by both sides.
Also, people really don't like it when you call them on their BS. Imagine that.
A frequent poster called Anthony Watts a "thug" on Kloor's blog. He put me on "moderation" for questioning the poster. Similar incidents, occurred on a regular basis. I have heard the same characterization as LC's, from so many other posters. There was a time when C-a-s was interesting - the Judith Curry and the pre-Judith Curry days. KK was more fair those days - attuned more to conversational mechanics and behavior of commenters, rather than the content of their posts. Why should a blog owner has "less patience" or "more patience" with the "usual BS talking points" of his commenters? Commenters stand or fall based on the merit of what they post, not by how much they irk or please the blog owner. Otherwise you gather a coterie of 'yes men' and people who know the tricks of saying things without ticking off the blog owner - and the conversation dies.
My first clue he was problematical was when he put me on moderation. Me, the voice of moderation.
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Whoever is tempted to sanitize the Mann emails by deleting or witholding the incriminating ones should be careful: when RC releases the next tranche of CRU emails, any deletions or omissons in the UVA folder will quickly become apparent. Are you ready RC? It will soon be time for something wonderful to happen again.
It might be trivialization of KK's scenario.
KK's CoS is a game of gamers gaming the already pre-gamed IPCC non-game.
John
Kim,
Are you the same Kim who writes all that bad poetry? Sorry, I can't stomach that stuff.
Shub,
You just left the weirdest, most ignorant comment on my blog (about evolution and Intelligent design). You've forfeited the last iota of seriousness I gave you.
John Whitman,
Is that some sort of climate skeptic koan? 'Cause I can't figure it out.
Good grief! Looks like Mr. Kloor might be channelling ZDB (and lost his sense of humour in the process!)
I'd like to give keith some credit. In his attempt to set himself up as a fair discourse broker he has generated some nice discussion and he takes heat from both sides. But inevitably he reveals himself as both leftist and true believer and it just sucks the air out of the whole premise of his blog.
He was too busy moderating my stuff to note when Gavin finally gave up the hockey stick in an exchange with Steve. To his credit, he left one timely comment of mine.
We should pity keith. His team is losing badly and he wants to bring up religion.
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