Thursday
Jan272011
by 
Bishop Hill
Bishop Hill UKIP on the rise
Jan 27, 2011 Climate: Sceptics UKIP The UK's only sceptic political party of any note is apparently shooting up the political charts, and is now polling at levels it has never reached in the past. According to Ed West, the party is even beating the LibDems in some age brackets.
With the Tories on the Science and Technology Committee voting for whitewash rather than the truth, I would expect plenty more people to abandon the Tories for Farage's anti-establishment party.
Reader Comments (29)
I blame Monckton!
UKIP is the only hope for this country on climate change, Europe and democracy. Until or unless one of the other parties comes to its senses. I can't see that happening.
Sorry ,way off topic.Windfarm rejected.
http://www.eveshamjournal.co.uk/
Oh,and of course,well done UKIP!
If only the mainstream tories (i.e. what Cast-Iron thinks of as nutters) would finally have the nerve to form a proper conservative party again - then UKIP could join them and ScamCam would end up where he deserves to be, in the wilderness! [He claims to love that anyway!]
Simple 2 stage process to help improve the wellbeing of UK citizens:-
1. Join - http://www.ukip.org/helpukip
2. Sign - http://www.eupledge.com/sign_up_now.html
UKIP will do much better at the next election. I bet a lot of Tories were tempted to vote for them in the last one, but fell for Cameron's lies.
I'm not surprised, with even more types of incandescent light bulb being banned from next Tuesday...
Ed West appears to be one of those otherwise highly perceptive shrewd commenters with inexplicable blinkers to curiosity on AGW- just bland acceptance. He has largely stopped referring to it in his blogging of late, as swept under the carpet in his UKIP piece. This earlier blog sets his scene:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/edwest/100050542/for-monday-16-why-shouldnt-conservatives-believe-in-man-made-climate-change/
UKIP are polling 8% among 18-24 year olds. Is that really deserving of a post and an article in The Telegraph?
co2 trade on the fall...with media spin...
27 Jan: Time Blog: Eben Harrell: Europe's Cap-and-Trade Suspended
What's more, Steinhauser writes, carbon certificates can be traded quickly across borders, and "national registries don't have the ability to verify the identity, and therefore the legality, of carbon credits prior to moving them into an account."
That's exactly what happened last week when an anonymous caller told Czech State Police that a bomb had been placed in the office of a private company that manages the Czech Republic's national registry. After the office had been evacuated—and therefore oversight suspended— hackers stole around 475,000 allowances, worth $9.6 million (7 million euro) from a company called Blackstone Global Ventures, an environmental consultancy that trades carbon credits for industrial companies, The Wall Street Journal reported. The Journal continues "The thieves changed account-ownership information and executed illegal trades." This isn't the first such snafu for the ETS...
The big question from the ETS snafu is whether it provides a warning about the principle of a cap-and-trade scheme or simply about how to implement one. Does this offer a verdict on whether a market should be used to fix an environmental problem? I don't think so. The theft issue is one that will go away as cap-and-trade markets mature. As Thomas Rassmuson, a partner at London-based investment firm CF Partners pointed out to AP, "It's like the early days of banking. It was more easy to rob a bank in the old days." That's not to say that Europe shouldn't get its act together, however, and make sure its carbon market remains a secure model for those countries considering possible schemes—the U.S,, South Korea, Japan, Australia and elsewhere...
(See the effects of climate change on the planet here)
http://ecocentric.blogs.time.com/2011/01/27/europes-cap-and-trade-suspended/
27 Jan: Reuters: ICE extends spot CO2 trade suspension to February 7
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE70Q5CL20110127
27 Jan: Guardian: Leigh Phillips: European commission extends carbon market freeze indefinitely
Countries must prove their systems are protected against theft of credits by hackers
The European commission's emergency suspension last week of trading in carbon allowances to put a halt to rampant theft of credits by hackers has been extended indefinitely until countries can prove their systems are protected from further fraud...
Once there is a centralised clearinghouse, starting in 2013, (European commission's climate spokeswoman, Maria) Kokkonen said these sort of problems will no longer be an issue: "We have to survive till 2013."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jan/27/european-commission-carbon-market
"UKIP are polling 8% among 18-24 year olds. Is that really deserving of a post and an article in The Telegraph?"
1/12 of a demographic that has been pickled in the CAGW limelight since Primary One is noteworthy Robinson.
As the recession bites and the unemployed next-generation starts to introspect, they'll start the journey that begins to question. Why.
Why don't I have the job my careers teacher told me was mine?
Why did I believe my Uni lecturers who hectored us to grasp the bitter nettle of revolution while revving past my bus-stop with the best-looking girls of my year in their gas-guzzlers?
Why am I now saddled with a level of doubt that is in inverse proportion to the quality of education that I received from the w*nkers that supposedly taught me and whom got off Scott -free 'cos my parents tax paid not only their fees but subsistence too.
The Tories are repeating their failure to improve on earlier incompetent labour efforts, the liberals are struggling to get to grips with having to put actions to words.
The three main parties are a busted flush with the best hand given to Labour who claim, out of power, that they had nothing to do with what happened before 'cos Tony and Gordon are gone to the choir celestial. Full pension preserved, of course.
The winners will be the non- mainstream parties.
UKIP is the least of the problems. Yes, the post is relevant. Maybe not now, but ultimately?
UKIP has one saving grace, that may not last long, they haven't lied yet. The other parties are proven 'liars . They've proven why they can't be trusted. UKIP are, for the moment, without sin?
I expect even deeper apathy.
UKIP is as much "establishment" as any other party IMO, look at Lord Pearson for e.g.
Nothing will change unless we have monetary reform, a nationalised Bank Of England, or at least taking back our right to make our own money supply free of usury. That will never happen whilst the "establishment" is holding the reigns.
This quote is at the crux of our freedom.
""Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws"
As a pro-European and supporter of environmental protection, I don't see this as particularly good news. Too often, propagandists try to link AGW scepticsm with right wing politics (which rightly or wrongly, UKIP is associated with), or anti-environmentalists. This will only fuel that view (along with associations with Sarah Palin and Fox News) For serious AGW-sceptics, its about the science.
My suspicion is that UKIP's AGW-scepticsm is less to do with science, and more to do with opposing anything that could involve more government control or tax.
"My suspicion is that UKIP's AGW-scepticsm is less to do with science, and more to do with opposing anything that could involve more government control or tax."
And the problem with that is what? As for the AGW scepticism being less to do with science, I rather think that having Monckton as deputy leader rather shoots that one down. And of course, you're making the usual mistake of assuming that those sceptical of CAGW are against environmental protection.
Out of the EU, flat tax, small government, less political correctness -- what's not to like?
And of course, you're making the usual mistake of assuming that those sceptical of CAGW are against environmental protection.
And the mistake of believing that people who are anti-EU are "anti-Europe". On the contrary, it's a tragedy for Europe that it has been taken over by the EU. And a third mistake, the idea that being anti-EU is "right wing". At one time it was Labour party policy to leave the EU. Most of the important steps towards UK integration with the EU have been taken by the Tories.
UKIP are right wing nut jobs - end of.
UKIP..........the Judas goat.
@frosty
I don't share your view that UKIP are as establishment as the other parties. Simply watching Farage in action in Brussels makes that clear, when he regularly rips 'the establishment' a new a***hole.
Example - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gm9q8uabTs
And some folk here in the UK are attempting to fix the broken banking system - http://www.positivemoney.org.uk/
UKIP????
I know of 1 Englishman living in Germany - in the same house as me, actually - who very, very, very definitely does not care at all either for them or their "Little England" politics. Even if they are climate sceptical.
UKIP has already got their EUReferendum site (http://eureferendum.blogspot.com).
Let's leave it that way - all right?
Oakwood, "For serious AGW-sceptics, its about the science"
I agree that the science is fascinating, but think that for most people the concern is about the political responses to environmental alarmism. The ambiguity in the scientific knowledge means that it is difficult to imagine how scientific argument can possibly resolve the wider arguments over political goals - at best, it can inform them. If the aim is to change political responses, then there may be more benefit in focusing the argument away from the science and onto the political goals that are important to people.
i'm with frosty. it's all well and good banging on about un-democracy in europe by why then promote a monachistic dictatorial central banking system? i can see it appealing to unthinking out-n-out patriots but idealogically it doesn't make any sense. or did i miss some free banking policy in the ukip manifesto?
If you look at the 2 major parties' share of the vote over the last 50 or so years, it has gone into steep decline.
1959 96.1
1964 93.2
1966 89.9
1970 89.5
1974 75.1
1974 75.0
1979 80.8
1983 70.0
1987 73.0
1992 76.3
1997 73.9
2001 72.4
2005 67.6
2010 65.1
Where once 3.9% of the vote went to the Liberals and all other parties combined, their share is now knocking on the door of 10 times that. UKIP are simply part of a trend for little parties to make what looks like headway. It includes PC, SNP, BNP, and so on.
I don't see any sea change here, more a disillusionment with the two main parties which they are trying to address by becoming more like each other in deed while trying to sound the opposite in word.
The tone of the ranting one gets from Labour in particular seems to me to be shriller than ever. Back in the 1980s, the ideological difference between Con and Lab was huge but the tone of the debate was pretty measured. The actual ideological differences seem to me today to be slight indeed, but to hear them, you'd think it was Big Brother talking about Eurasia (or Eastasia of course).
@paulH i looked at your positive money link. it's interesting and undoubtedly right on the harm of fractional reserve banking. but why do people assume the BoE is an independant organisation with our interests at heart? i don't know they are evil. but i know who elects the MPC and how it works. (the crown/undemoctratically). if we want a central bank with targets, why isn't money supply linked to the targets directly instead of controlled by someone we don't know?
Paul boyce, if you think eureferendum the website supports UKIP the party then you really are not paying attention. They only share a view on the UK leaving the EU and participating in the whole world as a proud independent nation. Nothing little englander about it.
@Philip
'I agree that the science is fascinating, but think that for most people the concern is about the political responses to environmental alarmism'.
That's certainly me you're describing Philip. I was a reasonably vocal, yet unknowledgable AGW supporter (hey, who doesn't want to save the planet right?) until I read more about the scary political and societal goals being proposed by some authoritarian thinkers. That's when I woke up.
However, I do find some aspects of the politics as fascinating as the science.
Let's take Scotland's First Minister Alex Salmond as an example.
Think what you like about him, but it's widely acknowledged that he's one of the smartest operators of our time. He's brought a minority party to power, held together a minority government whilst pushing through legislation he favours, and continues to run rings around his opposite numbers at Holyrood.
I'm no huge fan of Salmond, but I do acknolwedge that he's smart.
So the question I keep asking myself is 'if I can see through the AGW scam, why can't he? Why is so mad keen on pushing the renewables agenda and the CO2 scare stories?'.
I've come to the conclusion that he's doing it for three main reasons, and none of them have to do with the science.
1. Scotland's economy isn't awfully healthy. We have quite a few jobs in financial services in Edinburgh and a few more in OIl & Gas in Aberdeen. Most other places have huge percentages employed by the public sector or a large benefits bill.
Salmond wants to change this; he want to create more jobs. Because with jobs come votes. Given the current 'political consensus' ie. clean energy is 'a good thing', his great white hope is renewable energy. We have wind, we have waves, we have offshore engineering expertise, etc. On paper, it looks like a good bet. Until we can't afford the subsidies anymore....
2. There's a ton of EU money sloshing around for 'Climate Stuff'. He wants to get his hands on it. Again, investment in Scottish businesses, irrespective of where the money comes from, is a vote winner.
3. Lastly, I fear he has a massive ego. Scotland doesn't lead the world in anything these days (well, possibly apart from heart disease, tooth decay and public sector employment). I reckon he LOVES the idea of striding the world stage as the leader of 'a nation at the forefront of renewable energy development'.
Unfortunately,'green jobs' are a mirage, the EU merely throws us scraps from the table by giving us back a small portion of the buckets of money we gave them in the first place (nobody seems to get this simple reality), and finally, a politically expanded ego simply keeps growing until it bursts - often creating much collateral damage (see Tony Blair).
I appreciate Salmond's desire to improve job prospects and wealth creation in Scotland, but IMHO he's backing the wrong horse,
Now, if he were to invest in building a workforce skilled in the design and manufacture of thorium-based nuclear reactors (safe, non-polluting, abundant fuel, no bomb-making waste product), and all the massive export potential that goes with that, then we'd be talking!
PS. Back in the 50's uranium was chosen over thorium as a nuclear fuel because the cold war drove the need for nasty stuff to put in nuclear weapons AND the companies involved made loads of money from the uranium enrichment process (which isn't required for thorium). Google/Youtube it - it's a genuinely fascinating suppressed technology..
Parting shot - the Scottish company Babcock used to lead the world in boilers used in power stations, why can't we do it again with a newer technology?
That's my rant for today! :-)
@PaulH from Scotland
I agree Farage plays the anti establishment character on the political stage to a tee, but I look at the main players who are mostly establishment. The fact that UKIP was founded at the London School of Economics says enough about it's "establishment" links IMO.
The more you look at inter-party and lobbying links the more cynical you (should) become of mainstream politics.
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/regions/world/2010/03/447073.html
more links http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_of_300
Until we have monetary reform, the actors may change, the script may change, but the same play rolls on.
Former British MI6 Intelligence Officer Dr. John Coleman's book "The Story of the Committee of 300" is available here...
http://www.lust-for-life.org/Lust-For-Life/ConspiratorsHierarchy/ConspiratorsHierarchy.pdf
UKIP has had anti AGW policies for several years now.
There was an argument put up by several of their members a year or so back that it might be unwise to shout the anti AGW message too loudly in case it distracted from the main EU message or caused a split.
However that isn't being said much any more. Farage, Pearson and all the main party leaders are solidly on it as of course is Pearson's friend, Monckton. As the AGW enthusiasm starts to fall apart at the seams this is likely more and more to be a good place to be.
I would have loved for example to have had the opportunity to explain the the Redcar steelworkers how their jobs went down the Swanee because of EU inspired anti AGW policies.