Bishop Hill Has the Graun backed down?
Jul 29, 2010 Climate: WG2 Greens Media Richard North is given space at Comment is Free to vent his spleen at George Monbiot.
An honest commentator would be joining us to ensure that the unsubstantiated claim by the IPCC is removed. But Mr Monbiot has instead resorted to ad hominem abuse which he – or his employers – justify as "fair comment".
Rather, he should be concerned, even if for entirely different reasons, that the response of the IPCC to a proven and egregious error has not been healthy. And an organisation which cannot admit error and deal with it is one that cannot be trusted.
The same might also be said of its supporters who, instead of dealing with the entirely justified criticisms, seek to attack the critics. By their deeds shall we know them and, in respect of his particular deeds in relation to "Amazongate", we have come to know Monbiot quite well.
Do we gather that Dr North's complaint to the PCC has been successful?
Reader Comments (98)
It's actually more enlightening looking at your entire comment history. On the Amazongate saga, the only person who seems to take offence and call attention to the HF is you. Is that really the best argument you have?
I think cannaman simple gets a kick out of writing impieties on each and every one of his postings then it irritates him because he doesn’t get moderated and can’t go back to base shouting and screaming that he has been moderated over on one of those horrible denier sites. It seems to me cannaman you will be in the Confession Box much longer than most tomorrow or perhaps self flagellation is more your practice.
I guess we should stop feeding the troll. A rather enlightening comment from Cannaman-
@canaman
As your latest post addressed t e seems to have come directly from the mouth of Zog the Inane without benefit of a sanity check. I implore you to urgently seek professional help. I regret that I am not qualified, nor inclined, to assist you. Farewell.
Cannaman,
Then it is true? Your faith based religion is the AGW movement? Is that why you were offended by North?
You must learn about forgiveness. Otherwise bitterness will cloud your eyes forever. I recommend that you go smell the flowers and ponder about the meaning of life.
Thank you all, it is so good to see that you have chosen to search through my comments, to quote them out of context and to insinuate motives that have never been there. I suppose it is just a shame that in trying to demonise me you expose the shabby tactics used by Bishop Hill, Watts and Richard (Holy Fart) North in the persuit of your politically motivated aspirations. Every post you make, every link you post simply digs you further in.
It would have been so much easier to have simply appologised for using inappropriate and inflamatory rhetoric in a public medium. Your tactical choice may well lead to a far greater negative response than you could ever have anticipated when first you practiced to deceive.
Chaps
I'm away for the weekend, so this is the first chance I've had to look at this thread. I sense it might be time to bring things to a close.
I don't think anyone is trying to demonise you. I gather an undercurrent of feeling a wee bit sorry for you instead. Maybe once upon a time you did have critical faculties and could use them...but all is gone now....
Like an outsider viewing an alkie, I wonder why the sufferer can see no further than the next drink...and is tormenting himself? Is this what religious mania is like? Paranoid thoughts and complete single issue obsession? Your avatar on CiF of a grinning skull is not chosen to show you as a happy balanced individual. Rather as a morbid, lonely and sad person.
I reiterate my plea that you get help.
I do hope The Good Bishop wasn't offended by The Holy Fart...
Laimer Alder,
Thank you for your kind consideration for the health of my avatar, I can assure you that we are both well. Perhaps you might turn your attentions to the mental health of Richard (holy Fart) North, who seems to have lost any semblance of political nouse dusing his time on the Guardian discussion boards.
Bishop Hill, I understand your absence neccesitates the closure of this thread, Have a nice weekend.
I fear you will have to plough your furrow of deep offence at Dr. North's gentle remark in splendid isolation. And maybe reflect on why you can gain no support for it either here or on CiF.
Oh Latimer, you know something as deeply offensive as the 'Holy fart' when used in such a premeditated and coniving way will find resonance among the religous minds of the bible belt the mosques where the faithfull "bow down" 5 times a day. You seem to forget that the Climate Change issue is a global matter even if the petty machinations of Richard (Holy Fart) North's political activities are confined within the UK.
He has made a serious error of judgement and if he is not politically man enough to recognise it and appologise publicly for it he can only reap the fruits of what he has so offensively sown. All media advantage that he might have achieved has been minimalised by his disgraceful contmpt for the faith of others, all for the want of some humility.
cannaman
I think Latimer Alder has pretty much summarized it:
Your avatar on CiF of a grinning skull is not chosen to show you as a happy balanced individual. Rather as a morbid, lonely and sad person.
I reiterate my plea that you get help.
So do I.
But I do have a question: Are you that dude who was chased off www.marijuanapassion.com in March of 2008?
Hopefully you learned something about indoor agriculture, if you are.
I happen to live in the middle of the biggest pot growing area in the US and even watched the DEA take down a grow house just down the street. It is sorta the focus of our local economy.
And do get help. Seriously. You appear to be intelligent, but with issues.
And stop blogging while stoned. It is obvious.
Oh, thank you, 'Don Pablo de la Sierra' that really pleases me to be slighted by innuendo.
I have arrived on what they would like to believe is an internationally regarded blog site to discuss the topic at the head of the thread, then we get this wonderful post in, to highlight the nature of the denialist industry to publish slurs against anyone who does not toe the denialists unfounded and politically motivated line.
Such a shame that this is a poorly read site, It would be wonderful if the wider audience could see how you all behave. However, as your post is likely to remain here I will most certainly cut and paste links to let people know in the slightly wider area that I circulate in that Bishop hill is happy to carry such stuff. Thanks again for the link and the opportunity :-)
Have a good weekend Bishop, closure is good!
l look forward to hearing from your compadres when they visit that you are on the long road to recovery.
Latimer,
If your wit and wisdom had ever been noticed, I am sure it would have been missed when you were banned from the Guardian.
Whatever is that sound? No matter, ignore it and it too will go away.
If cannaman wants to elevate his Flatulence to the status of a religion, that's his affair. Why help him derail an interesting discussion?
Any doubts as to whether the Guardian is backing down on global warming will be dispelled by a glance at its sister paper the Observer today. "Eat insects to prevent global warming", "high speed trains to prevent global warming", an editorial "We must restart the fight against global warming" and a page by science editor McKie "A dark ideology is driving those who deny climate change".
They have learned nothing and forgotten nothing.
@geoffchambers
I read the Observer's editorial too. And what a pathetic piece it is.
Apart from the stirring title 'We must restart the fight against global warming' it is nothing but a long catalogue of defeats for CAGW. At Copenhagen, in the US Senate and its disappearance from UK politics since the General Election. And just for a giggle it admits that the Climategate e-mails were 'leaked', not stolen.
This is not the work of a determined cadre needing just a stirring battle cry to lead them to victory. More like the speech of a football manager whose team has reached the FA Cup Final by luck and physicality, and who find themselves 5-1 down at half time, unable to cope with the skill and persistence of the opposition.
It shows that they have no new strategy and are completely unable to cope with the internet-enabled world of engaged and knowledgeable non-academics.
They are losing and they know it. But haven't a clue about how to win.
@canaman
Lets just be cahritable and assume that as an American (I assume), you are unused to the more robust forms of discourse thankfully still occasionally present in the UK, while long expunged from the US by political correctness.
Hence your shock and awe when Dr. North publishes his entirely unexceptional remarks on a British web site. And of the complete lack of any empathy with your horror among British posters.
And I think that Don Pablo (above) has adequately explained the substance-induced nature of your obsession with flogging this particular very dead horse. Leave it.
I always wondered where they sent the knackered horses that just cannot sustain the pace in main arena. I see we have Latime Alder, Geoffchambers and DrCrinum put to pasture with the rest of the climate crocks.
Enjoying the peace and quiet are you? Watch out, you will be joined by another old nag soon and apparently he brings with him the distinctive odour of methane.
Those that can do, those that cannot just chew the cud.
@canaaman
Are you just getting the secret messages from the Aliens and passing them on verbatim? Or is an English translation going to be available anytime soon?
Perhaps I'll wait for the movie.
@Latimer Alder
I see no sign the warmists are losing. With the Team, the referees and the match commentators all on side, I think they're doing fine. The likes of McKie and Monbiot have given up all pretence of rational argument. They argue to win. The only science in McKie's piece is the observation that Stott's 1999 projection of temperature rise is currently intersecting the zigzag of monthly anomalies, as determined by GISS, and HADCRUT. He clearly doesn't care about his reputation for scientific rigour or journalistic honesty.
On Guardian censorship, you can get away with calling Monbiot a scumbag or a bullshitter, since he regularly uses these terms about us. But don't ever criticise their guest writers. Many of the big names on the Guardian Environment Network like Stern, Rees, or the editors of the BMJ and Lancet have fallen silent of late, presumably retired hurt at the criticisms of the likes of us.
geofchambers,
You say "But don't ever criticise their guest writers", I wonder if that was why I was moderated so often on this thread for showing how Richard ( "Holy Fart") North preplanned to challenge the moderation on the Guardian when he posted :-
I wonder if they are going to allow this to stay up ...
spacedout 30 Jul 2010, 6:52AM
TheoGoodwin @ 30 Jul 2010, 2:17AM: re the ...group mind of Leftist scientists ....".
Yeah - I think you are right. This is the "collective" at work, never more so evidence as on this comment board. The only thing is, they are not scientists - group think has no place in science. Occupying a position, academic or otherwise, which purports to conduct science, does not a scientist make.
But the fact that a major breach of the rules can so easily be excused is quite remarkable, and I think you have hit upon the real reason - the group mind is a pathology, not a process. As long as the member of the collective is acting in support of the group belief, anything is permissible. By contrast, of course, anything that challenges the group belief must be ostracised.
This accounts for the exaggerated respect given to the priest of the collective ... Dr Lewis, and Dr Nepstad, contrasted to the contempt show to those outside the collective. It really is quite revealing ,,, and all so wearily predictible.
All that has to happen is that an annointed one can say "this is so", as with Nepstad saying: "The IPCC statement on the Amazon is correct ... ". In terms of scientific value, this incantation is entirely without value, but within the context of the belief system, it is the "Holy Fart".
The collective bows down and inhales, and this becomes the mantra. Nepstad has said, "The IPCC ... is correct", and correct it is. You can almost imagine this being chanted in a low drone, by shaven monks, with the faithful summonsed by a gong ... "The IPCC ... is correct", hummmm, "The IPCC ... is correct", hummmmm, "The IPCC ... is correct", hummmm ... and so on.
Of course, anyone who happens to observe that the "Holy Fart" is not perfume, but actually stinks, is cast immediately into outer darkness, with the harridens shrieking in dismay at the very idea that someone can actually disagree with the collective. And thus we have a Monbiot-esq commentary. Happy days!
---------------
Perhaps it was when I pointed oput his support for :-
"Sorry to be boring about this but we should simply go on hammering Pachauri and their inabilty to get rid of the pollution at the centre of their movement. Please everyone add facts about Pachauri's financial empire built of teh back of the scare stories and keep Monbiot swallowing Pachauri aqgain and again and again until the thread is shut down."
It might have been when I pointed to their dependance on
"Alinksy codified in his book Rules for Radicals"
where apparently it says
Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)
Does it never cross your mind that you are backing the wrong horse?
Latimer Alder,
In the meantime you may find this helpful,
http://www.ehow.com/how_2049858_make-tinfoil-hat.html
Do ask the the vet to up your medication, and see if you can get your oats occasionally - it may help :-)
@cnaaman
Thanks for the instructions on how to make a tinfoil hat. Its always good to be guided by one who has so thoroughly researched the topic and has considerable practical experience as well.
I will be sure to come back to you should I ever feel the need for such a hat. But right now, I have no such plans...given that the Aliens are clearly still getting their message through to you.
Latmer, you never were any good at the witty repost, good to see that you have not changed despite being put out to pasture.
@canaaman
I'll leave others to judge the veracity of your post.
Does anyone know how to set a phaser to vaporize or drop a little Trilithium resin in his stash of canna-bis.
Martyn et al.
Does anyone know how to set a phaser to vaporize or drop a little Trilithium resin in his stash of canna-bis.
I already told you -- ignore him. The guy is getting his jollies by goading us with his "wit" and smoke fogged thinking. Very typical of alcohol and cannabis. He is obviously intelligent, unlike the average troll, but impaired. Latimer Alder had him nailed sometime ago, but Latimer, please let it go. You are merely encouraging him. The guy needs serious help, but he will not look for it because he thinks he is normal.
Years ago while I was actively doing research in psychotropic drugs, I ran into many people like him. There are also a lot of them in the area of California I live in and so I see them every day, although more of them are on to meth.
Cannapiss
Enjoy your trip, wherever it is you are going. But from what I have seen, it will be very ugly.
Good bye.
@Cannaman,
"No one have an opinion as to which is worse 'Voodoo Science' or 'Holy Fart' ?"
Well on the one hand you've got the IPCC, supposed to be presenting the best science to guide policy in a crucially important area, but revealed to be doing nothing of the sort, and with its Chairman attempting to bluster away valid criticism.
On the other hand you've got a political researcher and journalist making a remark in the comment section of newspaper article, that only you seem to be excited about.
Dunno, but I've no doubt you'll be back with more prolix and irrelevant verbiage in response, if not explanation.
And no one here can see the impact that saying
"this incantation is entirely without value, but within the context of the belief system, it is the "Holy Fart".
The collective bows down and inhales, and this becomes the mantra. Nepstad has said, "The IPCC ... is correct", and correct it is. You can almost imagine this being chanted in a low drone,"
might have on the millions of moslems around the world who bow down and pray to Allah 5 times a day?
You don't think that the million of devout Christians in bible belt America would take offense at the offensive use of both the language and the customs of their various churches?
It is a shame that Richard (Holy Fart) North posts his opinions within the friendly confines of the pseudo-science blogs because his single incursion into the scientific domain has caused him to lose any political credibility that he thought he had. If he had posted this garbage in the Spiritual Media I suspect he would face a backlash that would make Salman Rushdie's look like a day in the park. There are occasions when even an appology will not work, so best keep it a secret.
I will not be surprised, however, if Richard (Holy Fart) North tries to take his unsubstantiated offensive opinions and political machinations onto further public media environments to attack the science or the scientists, that he is reminded of this egregious error and his transparent hypocrisy.
Don Pablo de la Sierra
"Years ago while I was actively doing research in psychotropic drugs"
Good to see that you are maintaining such a close and personal feel for your area of expertise.
Hurry back, Bishop, the comments are getting boringly out of hand.
cosmic,
You are right, Richard (Holy Fart) North is a nobody hack who was given the opportunity through right of reply to access a UK National newspaper to represent the deniers views on the IPCC. In his intro to this thread he talks about "An honest commentator", something that he also knows nothing about.
He has been shon to have tried to manipulate the direcetion of the debate through his blog site, to have deliberately placed an offensive post onto the debate thread trying to get himself moderated and to have been complicit in turning the debate into a personal attack on Pachauri to progress his political aims. He has been clearly shown to be a hypocrite with an offensive turn of phrase while being little more than a political attention seeker in his quest to represent the opposing views to the scientific reports.
I am sure no one will remember this the next time he tries to attack the science or scientists. His blog site is a testament to the scullduggery that the denialist camps indulge in to undermine the publics confidence in what the science has clearly shown. The worlds climate is being affected by human activity and the longer it takes to recognise that politically, the harder it will be on humanity.
I think there’s still fluff on the polyvinyl.
martyn
"I think there’s still fluff on the polyvinyl", don't lose it - it came from between your ears!
geoffchambers
I read the McKie piece over at Cif. Why, I asked myself, is the Observer printing this paranoid drivel? I found the answer at the bottom: Will Hutton is away.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/aug/01/climate-change-robin-mckie
Cannaman,
Please stop. You must step back and indulge in some self introspection ... if you can. You are falling into an abyss, the entrance to which you have covered over with your atavar.
I lost a son once. He was intelligent like you, a physician no less, but he gradually fell into that abyss, stubbornly refusing all attempts to help him. He had a similar atavar, only it wasn't posted on a computer screen ... it was pasted on the walls of his apartment and exhibited in his manner of dress. Today he has been reduced to a skeleton of a man -- not unlike your atavar -- wondering aimlessly from the bedroom to the living room and back.
I am not your enemy. I am trying to help you. Turn off your computer and go smell the flowers
@Dreadnought
It's not just McKie betraying science and journalism by muttering about"a dark ideology". It's the whole Grauniad/Observer propaganda machine back at full steam after a post-climategate pause for reflection; a tradition of two centuries of radical journalism besmirched by their nasty weasel-worded campaign. Monbiot has the excuse of scientific ignorance (he once admitted that the hockeystick was hard to understand). What's the excuse of McKie, or 'Bad Science' Goldacre for that matter?
DrCrinum,
I am just back in from the garden and thank you for agreeing to see me on such short aquaintance. Just give me a second to grab a box of tissues and lie down on the couch......
Now Doctor, it is like this, I have met this bunch of people on the internet and I introduced them to some facts about the person they were all reading about in the lead article. A right pillock this bloke was and seriously prone to sticking both his feet where only his tonsils should be.
The problem is they all seem to be completely oblivious to the realities of what the pillock is like and they all want to talk about me instead. Full of advice they are, take drugs, talk about anyone else but the pillock, move out from the Marxist state that I am not living in and some seem to be saying that they benefit from self flagellation, but I don't want to try that as my eyesight is already a bit dodgy.
DrCrinum, what should I do until they shut the thread down?
Don Pablo is right. Don't feed the troll.
Thank you, Latimer Alder. Ignore him to death.
geoffchambers
I regard Ben Goldacre as a good man fallen into bad company. This piece shows signs of cognitive dissonance.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jul/24/ben-goldacre-bad-science-spin
"Even those carrying out formal academic research are guilty of twisting scientific facts to suit their purposes."
At least one of his commenters sees the irony.
Cannaman,
I give up. Bye.
P.S. "TLW" is unimportant.
I think the McKie piece is significant for one thing:
This is the first time that I have seen a warmist acknowledge the dichotomy of cap-and-trade (or ETS or whatever the local form of thievery is) vs. liberty. Plus, calling defending individual rights a "dark ideology."
If this argument is widely disseminated, I think it will have a wonderfully salutary effect in dissuading the public from ETS etc. On the west side of the pond at least, there are a lot of people with a profound distrust of government. While they can unfortunately be persuaded to favor government actions which take from "bad guys" and give to "good guys", I think when the issue is framed as conceding individual rights for a nebulous claim of gain in future climate, they will oppose it. Well, so I hope anyway.
As for the rest of the article -- e.g. "Our planet may burn, millions may die" -- well, just more of the usual bilge. Evidently, there never were any heat waves or droughts prior to 1900, so any such events now are due to evil CO2. I suppose it's a step down from an article I once read [sorry, can't seem to find the reference] claiming billions would die this century. [Which, by the way, is completely true, even if those deaths can't be put down to AGW as the writer claimed.]
[Snip - I've asked people to stop]