Wednesday
Jun302010
by 
Bishop Hill
Bishop Hill Guardian debate
Jun 30, 2010 Climate: other The Guardian is to host a debate on the Climategate affair on 14th July at RIBA in London. It will be presided over by George Monbiot and the speakers announced so far announced are:
- Bob Watson
- Fred Pearce
- Doug Keenan
There are apparently more speakers to be confirmed.
If anyone would like to post a report, please drop me line.
Update on Jun 30, 2010 by
Bishop Hill
Bishop Hill
Atomic Hairdryer has volunteered to do the match report.
Reader Comments (37)
Ticket purchased. For an event based on alledged hacking, the ticket order process the Guardian's using didn't look particularly secure.
Rule one of debates..
Don't argue with eco activists that have control of the microphone, and the power to have the last word...
Given the list so far, a bit one sided.
What is George's role ( zoolology degree)
As he is a total activist, journalist:
President, Campaign Against Climate Change -
http://www.campaigncc.org/whoweare
With it's vey own sceptics hall of shame photo gallery.
http://www.campaigncc.org/hallofshame
I would hope for a neutral chair for the debate or it will be a farce, or a sceptic with hunt.
If Richard North gets to be a speaker I want a seat front centre, whatever the price!
I'd.. wait and see.
In some ways, it's similar to the RI debate, but with a different panel. Fred made some good points there (and in his book) about the way the science was done. What wasn't really covered at the RI as the question "Do the emails reveal problems with the science of global warming?", which is where this debate could get more interesting. The RI debate suffered a bit from not having a sceptical 'insider', like Douglas to give his pov and insight.
I support Barry Woods about the chair. The chair should be a neutral party, which Moonbat is the opposite of. This is rigged.
Don't be too hasty and pre-judge, that's the IPCC's job. If it is rigged, it'll become apparent quite quickly, and won't do Monbiot or the Guardian any favours.
Atomic Hairdryer
Don't be too hasty and pre-judge, that's the IPCC's job. If it is rigged, it'll become apparent quite quickly, and won't do Monbiot or the Guardian any favours.
Well, I guess we will see AH, but, frankly, and perhaps I am cynical because of my age -- I would rather spend the time and money in a pub having a couple pints. Now it they had North and Delingpole on the panel, it would be worth it.
Sara Chan
The chair should be a neutral party, which Moonbat is the opposite of. This is rigged.
A classic example of British understatement.
RIBA has a nice bar though. Rest assured, if I see bias, I'll write that :)
I just realised - Geroge Monbiot is the CHAIR!!!!!
As advertised by his: Campaign Against Climate Change
Anybody, that sponsors a 'deniars hall of shame, shall we say, appear a little' biased and unsuitable.. http://www.campaigncc.org/hallofshame
and George has the same in the Guardian:!!!
Monbiots Royal Flush: Top Ten Climate Deniars
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2009/mar/06/climate-change-deniers-top-10
Someone please let the Guardian know, last time I checked I'm still blocked from - Guardian's comment is free website..
How about Andrew Neill (BBC) for, chair (used to dealing with politicians tactics)
Have ticket, will cartoon.
And buy Atomic Hairdryer a drink afterwards of course.
See you there.
But Monbiot was (I think) the only 'warmist' journalist who consistently called for FOI laws to be upheld in the case of climate data, and received a lot of flak for it:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/georgemonbiot/2010/apr/08/hacked-emails-freedom-of-information
I thinki he also called for UEA scientists to resign in the wake of climategate.
Josh and Atomic Hairdryer
Have a pint for me! I suspect you will have plenty of time in the pub once the meeting starts and the whitewash starts to flow.
Just cynical, I guess. But been there, done that, got the tee shirt.
Hope to meet you guys there. For the purposes of protecting my nom de plume I will be wearing an Inspector Clouseau disguise. Nobody will suspect anything........
Don Pablo, We sure will!
But there's been a great debate over at collide-a-scape about bias and the problems that's caused for climate science. Media reporting is a big part of that, and I think a lot due to uncritical reporting. From comments at the RI debate, I sensed from some of the journalists that this has been recognised and they are becoming more critical. Hence perhaps the response from the CE side to close down the debate and only listen to approved spokespeople. I'm not a journalist, but I doubt real journalists will be happy with that idea.
Does anyone think a panel of people mostly made of those who are professional involved in prompting ABW , chaired by a person that is prophet of the faith that regards sceptics as equal Holocaust deniers , is in any way balanced ?
Even the title gives it away because so far no one had been able to produce any evidence of any hack , not that stops Monboit and co for repeatedly making this claim.
Talk about a hanging jury, keep you money in your pockets, you can well write the results right now , the science is sound , CRU did little wrong , anyone who disagrees is a child eating monster , while the last one may be wrong.
I'm going because I'd like to judge for myself the quality of the debate by people who I've only ever corresponded with before. Not star-struck...just want to do a reality (or not) check.
George Monbiot will probably take the opportunity to sell a few timeshare agreements (sorry, Population Offsets) after he has softened up the audience.
Latimer, say hi and have a drink with us afterwards too.
Debate or book launch?
"Fred Pearce will be signing copies of his book Climate Files: The Battle for the Truth about Global Warming at the debate. To order your copy in advance please visit guardianbooks.co.uk or call 0845 606 4232."
Perhaps I'll feel less cynical after a large Pastis.
A word to Doug Keenan (who reads this blog):
So far the line-up is 3:1. I hope you negotiated backup support for this debate, else you will be overwhelmed by the numbers game and the obvious bias of the moderator. So far you will be the only one who knows anything about statistics and tree rings, but it will be difficult to win a debate against numbers. The debate is supposed to be centered on Climategate, so if you can bargain, request Steven Mosher, an expert on the Climategate e-mails and someone who posts on the Guardian's climate blogs -- I doubt the Guardian would ever consider asking someone like McIntyre.
I have a close colleague who has debated against AGW on public radio, usually in the situation of 2:1 or 3:1 against him, and he has done fairly well and prevailed on the science and historical sides; but the general public will be ill-prepared to comprehend the debate, which makes it easy for the news media "to filter and spin" the reported analysis of the debate. Do you think the Guardian is going to permit the skeptics to appear in a good light when the paper recounts this debate in its columns? Remember, the color of the Guardian's newsprint is GREEN, and its Environmental Section on the Internet is dominated by environmental wackos.
With Monbiot in the chair and The Guardian sponsoring, it conjures up visions of a Soviet show trial.
Comrad Lysenko's Proletarian Science judged objectively against his decadent, bourgeois detractors, the judge being Stalin's son-in-law.
Soviet show trial , yes a bit like that the only question is how guility you are.
I wonder if Monboit will be telling old people they don't care because there going to die soon anyway, has he as in the past.
And of course Fred has a book to flog , well at least it will not be yet another of his cilmate doom books.
Josh - Hi...look forward to it! Will be good to put faces to a few names...and maybe swap a story or two. Cheers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xi-agPf95M
I miss Peter Cook.
I suspect that the idea for this debate (if not the actual organisation itself) came from someone who is already party to the full Russell report and the purpose is clearly damage limitation i.e. show that the science is still sound, how much agreement there still is (think of Panorama) how reputations are still squeaky clean etc.
Has the leak exposed problems with the science of global warming? No, the science is still unequivocal. Temperatures are falling now because CO2 is falling ... Do the emails uncover deep problems with access to scientific data? No the data has always been available. There are three independent data sets. But we need to think about making the data available only to reputable scientists. Are there serious questions about how climate research is done?
No, but we need to get better at communicating the science. 98% of reputable scientists still believe that AGW is a threat to mankind ...
I am not very optimistic about this being a true debate, or even very interesting or informative.
Still, I have already bought a ticket, and I will be there.
Josh - I will recognise you as I saw you at the Royal Institution debate, so I will introduce myself and say hello.
I agree with Cosmic this will descend into a show trial of sceptics. The warmists have their PNAS blacklist at hand - Doug Keenan will be denounced as enemy of the planet.
There can be never be a fair and open hearing of the Climategate scandal when you have the likes of George 'Ad-Hom' Monbiot and the Guardian Censors in charge.
My advice to Atomic Hairdryer is to be nice, cheery, diplomatic and disarming in dealing with the expected herd of eco-loons. That way you will ensure a puzzled and bug-eyed look after you have given them a good kick in the Gaias.
I still think we shouldn't pre-judge the outcome, that's best left to our opponents.
The timing around the Russell report could make things more interesting though, especially if that's critical. Doug is likely to get a far harder time than we or I will. If Monbiot plays it in an overly biased way, he'll just end up further out in the left field and can keep Romm company. One thing I've noticed though after doing a couple of this is it can be hard to report objectively, so developed some sympathy and understanding for journalists. As for eco-loons, sounds like I'll have support, and we can work on opening their minds, possibly with the assistance of alcohol if any of them are cute.
I'll be wearing one of Josh's designs, so should be easy to spot anyway :)
AH, "If Monbiot plays it in an overly biased way"
I am afraid that is how Monbiot always behaves in front of eco-loons.
Put him in a room full of sceptics and I would expect to hear a different tune.
This an event hosted by the Guardian and chaired by Monbiot - it will turn into a show trial for sceptics - guaranteed.
Perhaps we read to mucj into it.....
Nice excuse for a book signing opporunity for Fed Pearce ;)
And I would recommend reading his book - the climate files -
It is damaging to CRU, IPCC, what is also interesting is what it leaves out....
Whilst of course the science is still 'sound'
I would love to go,
but I'not to keen to hand over my name and address to these clowns.
ie George Monbiot sponsoring ' Sceptic Alerts' via his involvement in the Campaign Against Climate Change'
BW you make a relevant point over CACC and Monbiot's involvement.
As you can see with Monbiot's reaction to Amazongate - he is far more interested in making ad hominem attacks on people he views as being sceptics rather than accept the premise that there is a lot of uncertainty over climate science.
People who point out unsubstantiated claims on climate change should be thanked and not be subject to personal attacks.
That is why this event will turn into a show trial of people who have destroyed the grand AGW narrative.
It transpires that the Guardian have blocked an appeareance by Steve McIntrye. They are claiming it is due to costs.
Mac
I don't think there's anything suspicious about this - they just decided that they would use Keenan instead and save themselves the airfare. If they didn't want SM, they wouldn't have sounded him out in the first place.
Looks like Steve IS going now.....
Comment 35:
http://climateaudit.org/2010/07/01/the-pearce-inquiry/#comments
David Bellemyy being 'humiliated' by George Monbiot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLs839exKxM&feature=related
George Monbrelatediot debates Ian Plimer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBQCsMJm3Zg&feature=
That'll make the debate more interesting. Glad I have my ticket already, think RIBA's theatre holds a max of 300 so may sell out quickly now.
just bought one...
Maybe we should all carry a bishop (chess piece) and have a secret handshake..
I've got a golden ticket !!! Sorry got a little over excited there....
If we're going with chess pieces I'd rather have a little porn ;-)
I suppose I'd better get a copy of the good book, just to read on the train.
Anybody know if Josh would mind me printing up a T-Shirt with one of his designs (or is the dress code more formal - robes etc)
David (Devon)