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« Today on the Royal Society | Main | Another climate review »

The question of Gosselin

P Gosselin notes the rise in environmentalists demanding a suspension of democracy so that the wise ones in the green movement can put their ideas into practice. The BBC has apparently given them an episode of the Analysis programme to promote their views.

This idea raises a whole new concept of the environmentalists. No longer are they watermelons - green on the outside and red on the inside - they are something else - green on the outside and brown on the inside.

Gosselin wonders what kind of fruit this might be and can't come up with anything much. I think perhaps the word he is after is "pistachio".

It's a kind of nut.

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    Bishop Hill: P Gosselin notes the rise in environmentalists demanding a suspension of democracy so that the wise ones in the green movement can put their ideas into practice. The BBC has apparently given them an episode of the Analysis programme to promote their views. This idea raises a whole...

Reader Comments (27)

Actually, we ought to call them what they are - envirofacists.
The Beeb worries me. They are actually joining in on questioning whether or not democracy is up to the task.

May 28, 2010 at 9:16 AM | Unregistered CommenterP Gosselin

Watermelon suffices - Nice and green on the outside, bright red on the inside, but the seeds at the very core are dark brown!

May 28, 2010 at 9:35 AM | Unregistered CommenterJonas N

Global Government/Governance, as uncovered in the depths of Copenhagen Treaty, pretty much revealed the same end-game. UN to create an alternative 'currency' to run alongside the financial markets in the shape of Carbon Trading.
The result would be that the UN/World Bank/IMF would decide who gets to use Carbon and at what cost - they would effectively run the planet without a mandate from anyone - except
the envirofacists.

May 28, 2010 at 10:36 AM | Unregistered Commenterjazznick

Here is the link (ignore the first couple of minutes)

May 28, 2010 at 10:54 AM | Unregistered CommenterMike Post

Like megafauna farts.. better out than in! Openly discussing the end of democracy in the name of CAGW is likely to sub-divide the warmists rather substantially.

Unlike the subdivision of the sceptics/deniarz, who broadly advocate no action against climate change (whether the objection is scientific or political), the warmists have to tackle a very wriggly, very lively worm. They will never be able to enshrine in law the policies that would actually be required to mitigate the imagined dangers of CAGW without ditching democracy.

I predict a very substantial iceberg of luke-warmists will break away from the increasingly frenetic CAGW eco-fascists and will melt quietly away, determined to disassociate themselves from the loony eco-nutters once ecofascism becomes firmly synonymous with CAGW environmentalism.

May 28, 2010 at 10:58 AM | Unregistered CommenterSimonH

Actual not the German Democratic Republic - the Green Democratic Republic

May 28, 2010 at 11:50 AM | Unregistered CommenterBrian John

I think these warmmongers should be ridiculed for their lack of democracy and linked with the BNP. on all occasions.

May 28, 2010 at 12:30 PM | Unregistered CommenterPeter Whale

Democracy will likely end though a willful vote of the people rather than a coup or revolution. All it takes is for enough people to be convinced that democracy isn't efficient enough to make the changes they want.

May 28, 2010 at 1:18 PM | Unregistered CommenterScott B

I expect that a watermelon that's full of rot and corruption is brown on the inside.

May 28, 2010 at 1:31 PM | Unregistered CommenterLiam

I love the term "common sense authoritarianism".

I suppose it could be defined as: unqualified submission of the many to authority based on good sense and sound judgement of the few.

They do say, "the essence of tyranny is the denial of complexity."

May 28, 2010 at 1:52 PM | Unregistered CommenterMac

You can be sure that none of these people are yearning for the smack of firm government - their contempt for democracy is closely tied to their expectation that they will be the dictators. They would be the first to squeal about human rights if they disagreed with the regime in power, whether democratic or otherwise.

May 28, 2010 at 2:26 PM | Unregistered CommenterDavid S

Putchstachios - would be more accurate - nutty dictators

May 28, 2010 at 2:52 PM | Unregistered CommenterJohn

Vaclav Klaus, elected president, warned back in 2008, not about the AGW, he said dangerous was not one or two degrees of warming, but the environmental movement. He recognized the brown shirts already, but said he was grown up with them and he will never forget how they emereged.

May 28, 2010 at 3:19 PM | Unregistered CommenterRolf

Perhaps this is a taste of common sense authoritarianism.

Save the planet by enslaving humanity.

May 28, 2010 at 3:24 PM | Unregistered CommenterMac

The Greens are getting really scary. Next thing they will demand is euthanizing people because of the overpopulation of people in cities.

Our Green Minister for Environment John Gormley in ROI has just decided that non-commercial turf cutting is to be banned on 32 raised bogs and similar restrictions will come into effect on 23 other sites next year. (Commercial cutting is still permitted).

This means that the average punter in the central and western parts of ROI will have to buy turf from commercial cutters instead of cutting their own. And because of that, the government will have to give out compensation. What sense is there in that?


All you need is look at Ireland to see what the Greens are capable of doing. "Nuts" is too polite.
All you

May 28, 2010 at 3:35 PM | Unregistered CommenterDon Pablo de la Sierra

May 28, 2010 | Unregistered CommenterMac

"common sense authoritarianism"...Posh way of saying Communist!

May 28, 2010 at 3:48 PM | Unregistered CommenterPete Hayes

Bishop, thank you for pointing to more evidence of this worrying trend of arguing for a suspension of democracy by climate activists, which has been a particular burden for me too. And thank you Mac for pointing to the very related and even more disturbing piece by Donna Laframboise on Sudan's central role in the IPCC. People really need to think straight about all this.

One person who got it bang to rights this week was David Frum in the third part of Michael Portillo's excellent radio seriesDemocracy on Trial. People say that democracy can't deal with climate change, he said. But in fact democracy has a strong record of dealing with threats of different kinds. The problem with climate change is that those advocating radical action haven't made the case well enough, from the evidence.

This made me think about a little aphorism:

Some say that climate is dead easy for science to understand but very difficult for democracy to deal with. I say that it's very difficult for science and democracy's doing just fine in the light of that.

Improvements/adaptations welcome.

May 28, 2010 at 4:42 PM | Unregistered CommenterRichard Drake

Democracy is overrated, we must do something!

The R4 preamble to Analysis had some parallels. It mentioned Goldman Sachs making a lot of money, and of course businesses like that stand to make enormous amounts of money from carbon trading. It then mentioned companies using bribes to win contracts, but then there could also be an amount of bribery from companies to promote AGW and carbon trading, or other lucrative 'green' business. That could be from UK or EU grants to help 'prove' global warming or more blatant ones like Catlin creating drama to help sell cover against risks that are uncertain, but highly profitable if they don't need to pay out.

Then there are perhaps more blatant abuses of democracy, like NGO's representing governments on intergovernmental panels. Who is regulating the NGO's when some of them are becoming increasingly influential, and already happily abusing the usual democratic processes?

May 28, 2010 at 5:07 PM | Unregistered CommenterAtomic Hairdryer

AH you are giving Catlin far too much credit. The eponymous Stephen is a self-publicist with a bit of a Messiah complex - he needs to be somebody's saviour whether wanted or not. He is throwing away shareholders' money on this idiot Hadow; meanwhile his business underperforms compared with its competitors such as Amlin who prefer to sponsor rugby and Hiscox who advertise in the press and sponsor equestrian sports.

May 28, 2010 at 5:17 PM | Unregistered CommenterDavid S

socialists never were for democracy

At their incubation (the French revolution) they were good at chopping heads without sophisticated soft power policies.

It is only afterwards, when they saw that older democracies like the US and UK were embracing libertarianism and got popular everywhere, that they came tagging along like "we are also , you know, for liberty and all that , we are even real-er democrats , give us a larger piece of the pie!"

What socialists very early on is to repaint them . And they keep doing this relentless.
They are now the "race defenders" in america. Not that anybody asked them, or that they have any credibility record on that. No: It is opportunistic.

May 28, 2010 at 5:27 PM | Unregistered Commenterphinniethewoo

The "optimum population trust" deserves a mention in this context.

So, if you are feeling guilty about your carbon output - pay to have someone (else) sterilized...

May 28, 2010 at 5:52 PM | Unregistered CommenterZT

To our good friend P Gosselin, I can say with confidence that in Britain we have a category of people, they are us, and they are known as the Country Members. So, when asked, you simply state that as your desired categorisation, and all else will follow. It's always worked for me.

May 28, 2010 at 10:01 PM | Unregistered CommenterChuckles

1 In the last two minute of Analysis, one of the EFs said "we cannot predict the future" - exactly.


May 28, 2010 at 10:09 PM | Unregistered CommenterPaul Maynard

Third time lucky

1 In the last two minute of Analysis, one of the EFs said "we cannot predict the future" - exactly.

2 The insurance industry supports and promotes AGW. It also says that weather related damage is getting worse. However, it is not clear what it will actually achieve by this. The market won't let it impose special terms, if it did, it would lose credibility and in any event, it stands to gain from more uncertainty.

3 Good to see that Porrit and Attenborough both support the very pleasant Chinese government. Reminiscent of Silent Spring and millions of deaths from malaria



May 28, 2010 at 10:17 PM | Unregistered CommenterPaul Maynard

To illustrate have far some of this "enviromentalism" has gone. In New Zealand yesterday it was announced by Maersk ( the shipping line ) have said they will stop carrying some species of fish. Green Peace got their way. They are not going freight Orange Roughy because it is caught by bottom trawling ( at very large depths ) , toothfish caught around the Antartica and some species of shark. The fact that NZ has had an extemely successful and widely recognised quotea system for 25 years seems to have been forgotten.

May 28, 2010 at 11:34 PM | Unregistered CommenterRoss

You can always tell a Watermelon, from his brown eyes.

May 29, 2010 at 10:28 AM | Unregistered CommenterColin Davidson

Enjoyed the pistachio quip, but "watermelons" are very comfortable with the suspension of democracy. Just as Hitler, Stalin, and Mao were the same regardless of which brand of "ism" they claimed to follow, your pistachios and watermelons would also be indistinguishable in practice.

May 30, 2010 at 2:10 PM | Unregistered Commenterstan

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