Thursday
Nov042010
by 
Bishop Hill
Bishop Hill More Matt
Nov 4, 2010 Climate: other Matt Ridley is taking aim at the ocean acidification scare again.
Before I started looking into this, I assumed the evidence for damage from ocean acidification must be strong because that is what the media kept saying. I am amazed by what I have found. Make no mistake: there are lots of threats to the ecosystems of the ocean, from over-fishing to nutrient run-off, but acidification is way down the list. The attention is deflecting funds and action from greater threats. It is time scientists had the courage to admit this.
Reader Comments (18)
"Before I started looking into this, I assumed the evidence for damage from ocean acidification must be strong because that is what the media kept saying. I am amazed by what I have found."
I don't know if Mr Ridley is being facetious about his reaction, but I'm not at all amazed by what he found and wrote about. And for precisely the reasons he gives. The current variation in ocean pH world-wide is approx. 8.0 to 8.4. [Source] I was unaware of the monthly pH variation that Ridley mentions at Berkeley. But, like temperature, there's a large natural variation in pH, and flora and fauna which can not tolerate or adapt to swings, tend not to stick around.
Once I too took these articles at face value; now I've become very cynical. By the way, this Oceans United, which seeks $5B per year -- is it related to Partnership for Observation of the Global Oceans [mentioned here] which asked for $15B plus $5B/year ? Or perhaps the $5B is just a coincidence?
O/T but I seem to have won too many arguments on the Grauniad site. They've gone back and censored dozens of comments, including a number with hundreds of recommendations, and I'm now being premoderated! Has this happened to anyone else? Is there anywhere else I can go to take the piss out of ecofascists or have they all pulled up the drawbridge?
@justice4rinka
You are following a well-trodden path. Many others (myself included) have been there.
If you are a very very very good contributor for an undetermined period, never say anything that might upset anybody and certainly never say anything contrary to the house dogma. you may be allowed off the naughty step and back into the unmoderated playground.
But if you break any of their informal rules the next step is excommunication. You'll be cast into the outer darkness forever. With no right of appeal. No process, just termination.
'Comment is Free', except in The Grauinaid
Matt Ridley is speaking at the Policy Exchange think tank on 24 Nov:
http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/events/event.cgi?id=273
I'm hoping to attend.
News from our science correspondent, Donald Yabreth:
A little less alkanility makes the oceans more benign.
Scientists have found that as alkanility declines, ocean life such as corals and other species use bicorbonate to grow and make their shells. As dissolving carbon dioxide in water actually increases bicarbonate concentrations, marine life is expected to benefit from increased atmospheric CO2 which is readily dissolved in water.
Scientists have now observed that increasing CO2 not only increases plant growth on land but ocean marine growth and believe that CO2 could be the great driver of life on our planet leading to increased biodiversity, food supplies and general well-being of mankind.
A senior scientist stated "You have to remember that CO2 played a major part in early life on this planet and continues to do so."
;-)
I wonder were the "Alka" in Alka Seltzer came from? Seems bicarbonate with added aspirin and a little citric acid works wonders. Going to try a spoonful in my marine fish tank to see if the coral does better.
Any chance of part of the 5Billion for my experiment? The added Aspirin may reduce the chances of strokes in my seahorses and the citric acid will help any pregnant mothers in the tank.
Strange to see this run for the money happening in China (where I currently abide)! Let's see, U.N.....Maurice Strong....now where does he live at the moment?
justice4rinka
Plenty out here who have experienced similar at the hands of the organ of truth. The stalinist credentials are rather subtle but very real indeed to the point of your entire archive with them disappearing into the ether.
All too common through the ages unfortunately.
The g editorial team do read this blog and will doubtless pat themselves on their collective backs for their wily genius.
Their devotion to their cause will not be forgotten (and many others of course).
I got reinstated by the Guardian about a month ago - don't know why because I didn't pander to them. Perhaps the new editresse had an amnesty, but now their lower grade moderators are now removing people again?
But for the moment I've removed the tagline;
"Proud to be censored by the Guardian"
from slides I use when occaisionally speaking at energy conferences, universities or indeed the odd meeting with DECC!
I don't bother posting serious posts about energy economics (my work) anymore on their climate blogs but know I've been let back in because I try to post the odd shortie poking fun at the Euro and am no longer held for moderation.
In many ways the Euro debate is very similar to the climate issue - it's an article of faith for the Guardian Editorial Board (the long shadow of John Palmer?) and the Guardian polytechnocracy (academic snobbism -sorry). They even have a respectable oldie Fred Peace equivalent in Michael White who is allowed to say "not sure maybe one day"
For those who know anything about economics (or indeed are proper lefties interested in jobs or the poor) the idea of the Euro as sensible economics is of course a complete joke. The majority of Guardian bloggers seem to think that way too.
Post Greece and the Irish Republic Euro implosions the Guardian seems to have stopped publishing pro Euro articles after they got the sort of panning Andrew Sims seems to get every month.
I was sorry to hear David Attenborough refer to 'acidification' (neutralisation, surely?) as the greatest threat to the oceans recently in his new series - especially as he had earlier stated, in the same programme, that over-fishing was the worst thing!
Is there anywhere elseI can go to take the piss out of ecofascists or have they all pulled up the drawbridge?
Nov 5, 2010 at 1:58 AM | Unregistered CommenterJustice4Rinka <\b>
Join the club.
I worked my way through five different email addresses & logins last year before giving up - although one of them has started working again recently.
Meanwhile the old eco-loony lags like Onthefence and Bioluminescence soldier on abusing all and sundry for decades.
Hilariously, OTF has now started abusing people as astroturfers for having recent registrations - ie not in the "CIF club".
CIF = Comment is Futile
Ocean Acidification with CO2 -- OHMYGOD! We're all gonna die!
Hardly.
The reality is that we carry around in each and everyone of us our own little ocean, called our blood stream.
If CO2 was going to upset our oceans pH balance, then it would surely upset the pH of our blood. But it doesn't because there is a carbonic-acid-bicarbonate buffer in our blood. For those of you who don't know what carbonic acid is, it is CO2 dissolved in water. The oceans have exactly the same buffer in it. We took that buffer system with us when our very distant ancestors climbed out of it billions of years ago.
Read all about it HERE
Foxgoose Next time try the Preview Post option. :)
Mark Edinburgh
I find your comparison of the Euro zone mania with Global Warming interesting. You are quite right, except the real crash will not happen for some months yet for both the Euro and Carbonic plague.
Both have their roots in a fundamental weakness of too many people, which is they find it much easier to believe than to think. Indeed, I think the Bishop, himself, put his finger of that with his tag line of "A dissentient afflicted with the malady of thought".
Through out history, mankind has gone through one mass hysteria after another, often under the title of religion, which had millions of the faithful willing to die, kill, or press red buttons in order to further the cause of Truth, God, the Nine Inca Potbellied Gods, or whatever.
Clearly global warming is one such case. Now we are seeing people 'believe" that we are going to acidify the oceans with CO2. Utter bullshit, but there you are. The idea of unifying Europe with a currency without political union is equally bullshit. But there you are as well. This spring we shall see what happens in Ireland. My guess is it will not be pretty. The Celtic Tiger is not only dead but putrefied.
In time, all these movements fail, but sadly are replaced with a new one. I think they reflect sadly upon mankind.
As for the Euro, I think in the next three years all of you in the UK are going to fall on your knees and bless the Iron Lady. I am sure there are many reading this who will disagree, but it is your choice to believe what you wish. Time will tell. Time to return to topic.
Foxgoose
Actual OTF is such an idiot is that his work does wonders for people who are AGW sceptics. Monboit’s little group of followers are clearly untouchable on CIF, but they do bring quite a few occasions to enjoy some good old fashioned conspire loon humour. And I dearly love the way they claim to support the scientific approach but at the same time reject the idea that climate science should be subject to critical review or that it’s possible to do valid research that does not support AGW. A whole new way of doing science which only has the options of good and double-good.
Slightly amazing that an intelligent science journalist could possibly believe what he read in the media without 'looking in to it'.
That is the whole problem with the AGW meme; not enough 'science' journalists or, for that matter, scientists in positions of power but different fields bothered to 'look into' the science but believed the summaries produced the IPPC.
It would take less than 2 days 'research' to realise that theory, data, GCMs and various catastrophic scenarios are to put it mildly less than 'robust' and more bluntly probably nonsense.
The blog CO2 Science deals well with 'ocean acidification'.
Plans to enormously increase the scale of fish farming around coasts and start messing about with GM fish that do not eat other fish but require special feed (three kilos of wild caught fish needed to make one kilo of food) are not going to help with any ocean environment problems though they may temporarily alleviate food shortages.
@Mark Edinburgh. Hopefully the changing tone re: the Euro will eventually filter through to the climate issue. It must surely reach a point where the very keen involvement of the likes of Deutsche Bank, Goldman Sachs, even 'Big Oil' in supposed carbon mitigation schemes will make the Guardian pause for thought. To be fair, even Monbiot has expressed grave concern about the iniquities raised by feed-in tariffs, so hope springs eternal.
There's still a long way to go. It's interesting that leftish journalists like David Aaronovitch and Nick Cohen, who both went massively against the 'progressive' grain on Islamist terrorism, have both reverted to metropolitan bien pensant type in their 100% belief in CAGW. Part of me wonders if this is really the case, or do they feel that one heresy is enough? If so, I can forgive them that. I'd rather think that than contemplate that they may genuinely believe unquestioningly in the 'sky is falling' consensus.
It's sad that the very basic science has been all but lost in the hype, AFAICT. Floor Anthoni, oceans expert, who knew this unholy scare would come when the warmism scare started to fail, explained it to me - and it's explained on his website.
For all these millions of years, there have always been two crucial buffer effects in the oceans to keep the balance working and supporting life continuously. Calcium and Henry's Law.
Ocean acidification is not just a low priority, it's bunk.
Listening to Bob Watson ( Chief Scientific Adviser to DEFRA ) at Edinburgh Univ seminar last week .
Another true believer who clearly regards agnostics like me as both distasteful and ridiculous . If only the zealots could hear themselves . There seems to be much contradiction and confusion in all their
grandiloquent verbiage .