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Discussion > Tree planting and diesels

Tree planting has come up in the news
uptil now we have not had a thread about the topic.

Years ago we all agreed buying diesels was a good thing
The alarmists said that CO2 needed to be reduced
and that diesel was more efficient than petrol.
So Gordon Brown rushed out incentives and people bought diesels.

Now we are all agreed that planting trees is a good things
But is it that straight forward or are there complications like in the case of diesel cars ?

Dec 9, 2019 at 4:08 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

#1 Native species
When I was in New Zealand in 2000 I met a Taiwanese businessman who boasted he'd planted a million trees.
At that time I still believed the tourist PR that NZ was a clean green country.
What I found was that by creating tax loopholes tge NZ govt had created new forests.
But people had gone for the easiest trees which turned out to be non-native pines
.. so didn't really fit in with the nature.
Plus 1 million trees is isn't really that much
A 1Km by 2Km square ie a large hillside

Dec 9, 2019 at 4:12 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

#2 Monoculture When I lived in Panama City I would sometimes go into the Darien
... I'd sometimes pass large patches of dead trees.
It turned out planters had gone for mahogany trees , but such monoculture plantations are vulnerable to disease.

.. which is why trees had died in blocksm

Dec 9, 2019 at 4:15 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

The pool of BBC progs that can be listened to gets smaller and smaller as they succumb to dogma and constant agenda pushing
BBC More Or Less has joined them
.. certainly on green/climate issues
I didn't bother to listen to the election editions cos I knew it would be metroliberal propaganda
I did listen to last weeks tree planting one.

Farage has always said to XR come with is into the countryside and plant trees instead of staying in London and disrupting honest people's lives.
XR refuse.

So Tim Harford sneered The Brexit Party want to plant somewhere between "millions of trees" and "billions of trees"

Only 10 minutes later did he reveal that
- Farage had talked about planting MILLIONS of trees in the UK
- Another BP guy had talked about planting BILLIONS of trees acros the planet.

The MoL was week cos although it pointed out that Canadian systems meant a planter can plant 1,000 trees in a day .. so Labour's target could be achieved by 27,000 planters in 20 years
what counts is how many trees LIVE to 3 years, cos tgat can be way different.

The prog failed to talk about cultivation of ocean life as a simpler alternative.

Dec 9, 2019 at 4:26 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

The Times Nov 23 @BenMacintyre1 He's a tree nut, he writes such an article in the Times every 6 months

This article is about the London Plane tree fall from 60% of the London tree canopy in the 1920s to 1.4% now
- "replaced by much smaller trees that get turned to sawdust as soon as they have the temerity to grow. "

"The London plane has boosted our wellbeing for centuries so let’s save it from disease and vandalism
A simple hedge around a school park can halve pollution levels. (hyperbole)
According to an article published by The Lancet this month, trees in towns substantially increase life expectancy, reducing stress and lowering the risk of death from heart disease, cancer and dementia.
(the Lancet is full of BS)

Trees have been looking after city populations for centuries, helping us to breathe, regulating water levels and air temperature, keeping us sane and shaded. But there is one tree above all to which urban Britons owe a huge and often unacknowledged debt: the London plane tree, the scabbed, scarred, unsung arboreal hero of Victorian town planning, the hard-working Stakhanovite of trees; huge, knobbled and tough, but now disappearing and endangered.

The plane can grow in the thinnest soil. Planted in their thousands in…"

Dec 9, 2019 at 4:43 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

The same weekend The Daily Mail had 4 pages about its tree planting campaign led by John Humpreys
to plant 1million trees
'please send us your money"
seemed to be about £3/tree

now if planters can plant ,1,000 trees per day that's good money.

Dec 9, 2019 at 4:46 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

John MacDonnell claimed that Labour's tree planting campaign was easy
"cos in Ethiopia they planted 300 million trees in a day"

Actually More Or Less debunked that
Yes the Ethiopian government made that grand clsim but there is no proper evidence.
They did have a big tree planting day.
However local groups were given a target
and they just told the government they'd achieved their target even though they hadn't done half etc.

Thst prog did speak about its the number of trees living after 3 years that counts.

Pop band REM had done an offestt forest of 20K trees in India but it turned out those had died cos the area was too dry.

Likewise in England HS2 had planted lots of trees tgen failed to water them so they had died.

Dec 9, 2019 at 4:51 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

According to models:

"In all three regions, forests dutifully perform their task of sucking carbon dioxide from the air, but light absorption and evotranspiration vary wildly. In tropical zones, forests have a significant, overall cooling effect. The soil is very wet and, so, via evotranspiration, the trees are covered by low-lying clouds that create a small albedo (power of light that is reflected by a surface). In nontropical areas, Caldeira explains, "the real significant factor is whether there's snow on the ground in the winter." If a forest covers a snowy expanse, "that has a strong warming influence," he notes, because of little cloud cover resulting from less efficiency in evaporating water. The poor cloud formation coupled with the intense absorption of light by the trees "far overwhelms the cooling influence of the carbon storage," he says."

More Trees, Less Global Warming, Right? -- Not Exactly

Dec 10, 2019 at 2:31 AM | Unregistered Commenterclipe

So the Boreal forests of Canada "dutifully perform their task of sucking carbon dioxide from the air" cause global warming.if there's snow on the ground?

Dec 10, 2019 at 3:09 AM | Unregistered Commenterclipe

Dec 10, 2019 at 3:09 AM clipe

Everything causes Global Warming apart from taxpayer funded global warming advocates jetting around the world to lavish parties telling people not to jet around the world to enjoy themselves or earn a living.

The next COP should not be in Glasgow, but Ethiopia. Delegates could plant themselves in the arid soil to fertilise the trees. For mass planting of woodland, with a mixture of trees and delegates (flowery or not, coniferous or deciduous) diesel powered agricultural equipment has a proven ability to outperform tired old asses including the Green Blob.

Dec 10, 2019 at 9:22 AM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Difficult to understand where more snow comes from if cloud cover suppressed. And without additional snow, existing snow on ground disappears by sublimation. Model missing a vital cog?
Anyway most clouds are not generated in-situ but are brought in by movement of weather systems from elsewhere. Look at a weather forecast: weather is generated elsewhere and depends upon which air mass is coming our way.

Dec 10, 2019 at 9:35 AM | Unregistered CommenterAK

Dec 10, 2019 at 9:35 AM AK

Polar Bears have done what experts said they couldn't, survived and multiplied

Vanishing snow caps such as Kilimanjaro have also caused Climate Scientists to get hot under the collar.

https://climateaudit.org/tag/lonnie-thompson/
https://wattsupwiththat.com/tag/lonnie-thompson/

Dec 10, 2019 at 2:40 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie