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Discussion > Ownership of the Internet

Guardian: Wikipedia founder to fight fake news with new Wikitribune site

I will not bother going in to great detail on this, but we all know where this will end. It will just be opinions aggressively policed and framed by a group of activists. And as Wales is on the board of the Guardian, and with the history of Wikipedia, we all know the likely flavour of this Wikitribune site and the motivations behind correcting "fake" news. Just read the comments on the above article. Guardianspeak will be the way!

I am sure the aim is that Google makes a Wikitribune story top of every search result.

Similar was this... lets not make Science politicised says the politicised march.

Guardian: Why we joined the March for Science

I am not sure anyone on that march really had any idea what they were marching for or what they want for science. The claiming ownership of science as some beneficial independent force of society that should not be corrupted. Science is just what it is. Science has been driven on by wars, and military and some of the worst aspects of the human condition. Science has been driven by ego, selfishness, jealousy, deception.

Science is just about who pays the bill. The science itself just usually lives and dies on its own. Knowledge is knowledge.

When you see these things you do wonder where they will lead. And you just get the feeling of 1984 about it all. And the biggest different is that we welcomed the telescreens into our lives openly and without any fight.

I am not into conspiracy theories. But I use my own "intellect" as a guide. If I can see a situation where google, facebook, wikipedia, wikitribune, youtube, tesla self driving cars etc. are controlling the message then I am sure others can to. And I have no doubt these discussions are taking place.

We have the hypocracy of Bill Gates lecturing us now, and philanthropy is to the fore. Yet he forced a monopoly and Microsoft tax on the whole planet. He killed competition. He set back the advancement of society. He killed innovation. Just because some internet billionaire wears a t-shirt to work, uses an iPad and drinks cappuccinos doesn't make him any less of an egotistical, self serving bastard compared to other generations.

People soon find the value of their power. Beneficial power is really an abstract construct. Power is power. It doesn't self regulate. It never has. it is only by taking away the power that change or control is achieved.

You hope that an alternate internet will fork. Because every attempt at owning the internet has failed. But I am beginning to fear that ownership is being sort and enforced. My children will see, but if my children know when they are being fed bollocks then I am sure there are others.

"You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time." Abraham Lincoln. I hope this "rule" always applied.

Apr 25, 2017 at 3:41 AM | Unregistered CommenterJiminy Cricket

Google are turning to the dark side too.

Last weekends update to the Android YouTube application demands full access to your contacts.

I have seen extraordinary tailoring of search and advertising content across platforms beyond what one would ordinarily (not sure if one can use "ordinary" here - but it'll do).

I am giving some serious thought to an attempt to remove myself / deny access to personal details wherever practicable.

Next thing will be William Connolly being appointed as an area rep for Wikitribune.

The perpetrators seem to forget that the herd can move viz. MySpace, Alta Vista etc., etc. The contempt that the present crew are showing to users / customers knows no limit and the pressure to fork is very obviously growing.

Apr 25, 2017 at 11:27 AM | Registered Commentertomo

Jiminy Cricket: you may complain about the comments being Graun, all the way down, but you do have to acknowledge that the top two “Guardian Picks” from HondaOxford and Dk12345 are very sensible:

The whole debate about 'fake' news is ridiculous . News is always 'fake' as nothing can be reported completely objectively. Surely it is easier to begin from this premise and tell people to 'use common sense' and make their own mind up rather than trying in vain to create a perfection from what is intrinsically imperfect ? As for constructing an organisation to regulate 'truth' - well I shall need to re read Kafka and Orwell to remind myself of t…
Jump to comment
(HondaOxford)

I'm inclined to agree with Frank Furedi, that official fact-checking is a dangerous move. Facts are maleable and all of what we consider "news" is an interpretation of the facts around the story.

If we agree between us that there is one truth, and that there are certain guardians of that truth, we are handing power to a group of self-appointed gatekeepers.

This in turn merely reinforces the illusion that events or issues can be "de-politicised" -…
Jump to comment
(Dk12345)

One thing Abraham Lincoln overlooked – for success in politics, you only need to fool enough of the people enough of the time.

Apr 25, 2017 at 1:54 PM | Registered CommenterRadical Rodent

Mr Rodent

Great last line to your post, permit me to suggest a slight amendment?
you only need to fool enough of the right people enough of the time.

Apr 26, 2017 at 11:49 AM | Registered CommenterDung

Dung,

You only need to fool enough of the gullible enough of the time.

We must stop electing idiots. And if we could find some sensible people prepared to stand for election (fat chance) then the internet would not be threatened.

Apr 26, 2017 at 12:16 PM | Unregistered CommenterF. Worthington-Milliband

F. Worthington-Milliband

I wanted to bring that up but thought it might be off topic; it is now clearly the case that with the current selection procedures we get heh vast majority of MPs who are unable to parse scientific language. I believe it is time to consider basic qualifications for MPs so that we get a house of parliament which is able to understand more of the issues that they are called to decide upon.

Apr 26, 2017 at 2:33 PM | Registered CommenterDung

Wikipedia has a massive problem with entryism (as do many NGOs)
..activists moving in on en masse hijacking entries and then constructing false narrative (like they do in the media) eg like smearing everyone who disagrees with them with a label like "far right"
You can see how it plays out if you click the TALK button an article
And Wikipedia managers are at fault for failing to enforce proper quality control systems.

Most people I meet can see that MSM is ..an always has been riddled with False-Narratives.
eg Shukmann's last article on Tellurium having a mining shortage was total rubbish to anyone in the industry
Tim Worstall did a total debunk ..showing the BBC article was ridiculous
And that's due the modern BBC policy of failing to look for other experts who will challenge the first
Ideas need to be tested not just cutnpasted

MSM .is getting worse across the field due to click bait headlines eg Indy100 system means articles must have CB headlines to get upvoted.
BBC is very Clickbaity
..and I can go on ...and on

Apr 26, 2017 at 11:08 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Has Facebook censorship kicked in ?
#1 Earlier I posted a link to Newswatch’s bias reports on FiveLives FB post
and within 2 mins the link preview graphic changed to become a blank spacer image leading to a dead link
- Delayed censorship is a pain , cos it is stealth cos you don’t get to find straight away youve been censored.
...and now even that blank graphic has gone.

#2 And now if you post a link to a BBC story you don't get a pic and small text
The pic is cut in half and you get huge link text
ah that happens when I link to biasedbbc aswell
..ah I tested the Newswatch link on my own FB page and it looks the same as for a BBC link
So maybe FB was having teething troubles moving from link text below to a new system of text on the right

Apr 26, 2017 at 11:31 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

I believe it is time to consider basic qualifications for MPs so that we get a house of parliament which is able to understand more of the issues that they are called to decide upon.

Apr 26, 2017 at 2:33 PM Dung

Unfortunately, Politics Philosophy and Economics (PPE) from Oxford is considered to be the only "basic" qualification necessary by the Westminster Bubble.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/feb/23/ppe-oxford-university-degree-that-rules-britain

If all those with PPE Degrees were excluded from the Bubble, it might make more sense.

Apr 27, 2017 at 12:23 AM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Apr 25, 2017 at 3:41 AM | Jiminy Cricket

How can anyone be sure this story is not made up? The sources are not that dependable.

Apr 27, 2017 at 12:28 AM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

Which story? the Wikitribune story? https://www.wikitribune.com/

Apr 27, 2017 at 9:53 AM | Unregistered CommenterJiminy Cricket

Democracy never has been, and never will be, about electing competent people.

Democracy is just about removing people in power before they game the system. .

Apr 27, 2017 at 10:03 AM | Unregistered CommenterJiminy Cricket

Oh Jiminy what a pessimistic view.

Apr 27, 2017 at 10:08 AM | Unregistered CommenterSupertroll

If anything it errs on the optimistic side. They're often removed only after gaming the system.

Apr 28, 2017 at 2:42 AM | Unregistered CommenterRobert Swan