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Discussion > Donald Trump thread

Could you translate Trumps first statement into something a mere Englishman might understand. What was all that about rooms?

May 29, 2016 at 3:10 PM | Unregistered CommenterEntropic man

Ah - anti-Americanism and linguistic snobbery in combination. How quaint.

May 29, 2016 at 6:41 PM | Registered CommenterMartin A

Robin Guenier, those two are not so different. Trump's priority is the well being of Trump, so it makes perfect sense to protect his golf course with a wall. He also knows that his supporters are immune to hypocrisy so there's no down side for him. Those not rich enough to build walls can get stuffed. The Chinese communist party's priority is, similarly, itself. Building on reefs to project power and threaten neighbours is consistent with protecting itself. And if they don't mind shipping millions of tonnes of materials to build it just above the waves why should they mind doing more to build it 5m above. Trump's antics are of course amusing, but it is difficult o see the joke in the Chinese example.

Generally though, amongst the adulation of the Donald, does anyone think he is fit to be POTUS? And can anyone identify a consistent Trump position on economic or foreign policy?

May 29, 2016 at 8:16 PM | Unregistered CommenterRaff

Raff, clearly a lot of American voters do think he is fit to be POTUS, so your question is moot. The question should perhaps be "Is he a worse or better prospect than Hillary?". I suspect that her best campaign strategy would actually be to get the media to shut up about him and pretend that there is no election happening at all. Of course the media love themselves and their opinions far too much to do that.

An excellent but lengthy two-person discussion about Trump can be heard at Sargon of Akkad's youtube channel. Entertaining, and plenty of very unflattering things said about him. Also plenty of good insights.

I can certainly believe that Trump comes across as genuinely very patriotic in way that goes down well with Americans. Perhaps the best point they made was that he is actually very talented at negotiation, something necessary to ever actually get something done in politics where compromise is needed. That also affords him the luxury of not having to lay out political positions in cast iron. Of course that could fairly be criticised as 'having no policies'. On the other hand, voters are all too familiar with politicians making firm political 'promises' which are quickly broken once they are in office.

May 29, 2016 at 11:20 PM | Unregistered Commentermichael hart

And also I'll add that he says he has always publicly opposed the Irag War from the outset. I've not seen anyone contradict that.

May 29, 2016 at 11:33 PM | Unregistered Commentermichael hart

michael hart, it would be interesting to compile a list of criticisms of Trump coming from climate science experts, to see how many are hypocritical.

Climate scientists have built and maintain a protective wall around their science.

Climate scientists are trying to rule the world.

Climate scientists are arrogant and self centred, and believe they know best.

Some climate scientists could do with consulting a different barber.

May 29, 2016 at 11:47 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

michael hart, you can still have an opinion on Trump's fitness for office, can't you? On breaking promises, US presidents don't actually have much legislative power.

May 30, 2016 at 1:02 AM | Unregistered CommenterRaff

Raff, FWIW, I think he is fit for office, not least because he has rejected global warming alarmism as being exaggerated. Obama's direction is, IMO, hugely damaging for the US economy and the welfare of US citizens, with no benefit for the environment. It must go. [I voted Conservative in the UK for the first time in my life because Cameron managed to let slip about "getting rid of the green crap", and George Osborne has clearly spotted that it is economic nonsense.]

That a Trump presidency would be constrained by Congress and the Senate ought to calm the nerves of those who talk about him in almost hysterical tones. But my understanding is that he could hire and fire the head of the EPA at will. And Executive Orders that Obama has signed into effect can just as easily be unsigned by the next president.

May 30, 2016 at 1:50 AM | Unregistered Commentermichael hart

As in Britain, a large proportion of the American electorate have been disenfranchised - and disdained by the political class and the media - for years. Trump is a revolutionary who will change that for good.

Scott Adams suggests that he will change other things too - even how we see reality.

In terms of capability Donald Trump completely and utterly outclassses presidents such as Carter, Clinton, Obama.

May 30, 2016 at 7:18 AM | Registered CommenterMartin A

michael hart & Martin A

The much proclaimed "Peace Dividend" that followed the collapse of Communism has been absorbed into fighting religious extremists and CO2. neither of which can be negotiated with.

Trump might declare an Amnesty with CO2, without lengthy imprisonment in Carbon Capture and Storage schemes, and the world will immediately become a happier place.

Fighting religious extremists is not going to be as easy, as they do represent a genuine threat, but cutting off the money supply to climate science would be a good place to start.

May 30, 2016 at 9:34 AM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

I'm not sure because I don't follow Trump's antics but the technique he uses is probably a version of bazaar bargaining. He starts with ludicrous, way out positions and lets the other side bargain him down to what he wanted in the first place or even more. If you start with the reasonable demand, you get bullied down to less than what you want. eg his demand that all muslims be banned can be negotiated down to legitimising racial profiling and rejection of visitors based on suspicion rather than solid proof. So they could reject a person for regularly attending a problem mosque rather than being proved to be a trouble maker or worse.

May 30, 2016 at 10:27 AM | Unregistered CommenterTinyCO2

Martin A

Admit it. You didn't understand him either!

May 30, 2016 at 11:05 AM | Unregistered CommenterEntropic man

TinyCO2 - Read "The Art of the Deal". He's the ultimate negotiator/get things done-er.

One (of a number) of Trump uniquenesses is that he will changes his position without any appearance of having backed down or having given in.

His "antics" may appear as such but I think they are crafted with extreme intelligence and insight. See what Scott Adams says: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55NxKENplG4

May 30, 2016 at 11:33 AM | Unregistered CommenterMartin A

EM - It makes perfect sense and is very clear.

"It hurts me with this room" = "it will no doubt be held against me by the people in this room". Geddit?

May 30, 2016 at 11:37 AM | Unregistered CommenterMartin A

Remember in an election people usually vote AGAINST rather than for.
..Some progressives will vote against Trump I guess

But a lot of people will be interested to vote AGAINST the establishment
..... and AGAINST Hilary : seen as corrupt, deceptive re emails, and super establishment like another Clinton.

Are Republicans going to vote against Trump ? Maybe Mexican and black Republicans, but I think there might be something that actually makes them NOT anti-trump as the media assumes.

May 30, 2016 at 11:54 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Hilary is far from popular with a huge number of electors. Bill Clinton was president 1993-2007. Around 2000 I remember seeing bumper stickers saying:

IMPEACH CLINTON.
And her husband.

May 30, 2016 at 12:28 PM | Unregistered CommenterMartin A

stewgreen, I share some of the unease of some Republicans about Trump, but when it comes to expressing a choice between one candidate or another?

The Democrats might take the attitude that if Trump wins, and gets rid of the Green crap, they can have an election based on the rest of Trump's policies in 4 years time, without their disastrous Green crap policies being a distraction.

It seems to me that Democrats should vote for Trump, so they can restore the Democrat Party, if they value what it has always stood for before being corrupted by Green crap.

May 30, 2016 at 12:40 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charlie

From @nytimes: Panic in Hillaryland as they realize #CrookedHillary has stuck and that she is a dreadful candidate:

Guess she survive the #CrookedHillary jibe, just like she survived being under fire at Sarajevo Airport.

May 30, 2016 at 1:51 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Martin A

What room?

There is nothing in the post to indicate where the interview took place. Is it a conference, a hotel, or TV studio? Is there an audience? Iis it neutral or a particular political demographic?

Trump's comment was presented out of context. To properly understand it the context is necessary.

Consider his recent "3 inch fish" comment. No mention of the pumps which extract fresh water from the Bay Delta for the area's towns and agriculture. Reduce the river flow by abstracting more water for agriculture upstream as he suggests, and those pumps start sucking salt water.

What is very clear about Trump is that he makes promises which are impossible to deliver. I am surprised that he has not yet made the classic politician's promise - "two women for every man, and a faithful husband for every woman."

May 30, 2016 at 2:04 PM | Unregistered CommenterEntropic man

Martin A,

In terms of capability Donald Trump completely and utterly outclassses presidents such as Carter, Clinton, Obama.

In what way? And as nobody else can, can you identify a consistent Trump position on economic or foreign policy?

May 30, 2016 at 2:25 PM | Unregistered CommenterRaff

What room?

There is nothing in the post to indicate where the interview took place. Is it a conference, a hotel, or TV studio? Is there an audience? Iis it neutral or a particular political demographic?

Trump's comment was presented out of context. To properly understand it the context is necessary.

EM - you have, as they say, a low tolerance of ambiguity.

Nothing wrong with that and it is how you are. But, in everyday life - including making sense of brief extracts from news reports, you can't reasonably hope to have all the details set out for you, as in a legal document or even in a laboratory report.

As I said, the comment made perfect sense to me. Even though I had to deduce the context. Googling some of the phrases confirms I had it nailed. I think much of what Donald Trump says will remain difficult for you to make sense of - because his manner is to give a blast of the key point he is making and to leave it to the listener to fill in the detail.

As has been pointed out, this presents his opponents (many of whom have lawer-style training and apptitudes) profound difficulty in responding to him.

And, as Scott Adams has said, he has brought a flame thrower to a stick fight.

May 30, 2016 at 2:35 PM | Unregistered CommenterMartin A

Martin A,

In terms of capability Donald Trump completely and utterly outclassses presidents such as Carter, Clinton, Obama.

In what way? And as nobody else can, can you identify a consistent Trump position on economic or foreign policy?

May 30, 2016 at 2:25 PM | Unregistered CommenterRaff

You are repeating yourself, Raff. I have already given you two partial answers the first time you asked that question.
1) He seems credibly opposed to the global warming hype-this is economic policy.
2) He opposed the Gulf War-this is foreign policy.

Or would you like a cheat-sheet prefabricated answer to every possible question that could be asked?

I'll also add that there is something of a George W. Bush about him: He appears to have the ability to consistently beat low expectations.

May 30, 2016 at 2:46 PM | Unregistered Commentermichael hart

@Martin A ...May 30, 2016 at 11:33 AM
Thanks, Yes that is a great simple video by Scott Adams explaining Trump

May 30, 2016 at 2:51 PM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

Martin A

. I think much of what Donald Trump says will remain difficult for you to make sense of - because his manner is to give a blast of the key point he is making and to leave it to the listener to fill in the detail.

I followed up the detail behind his California drought comments. He was making promises to deliver water that does not exist. The only way to increase the water supply to one group of Californians is to take it away from another group of Californians. The fish turn out to be irrelevant. If you reduce the river flow in the Bay Delta by extracting more upstream, you allow tidal salt water further upstream and the fish die. More importantly, you cut off the freshwater supply to the pumps extracting water for part of the San Francisco Bay area.

If his pronouncements on other topics are as incredible, Trump would make a fine oligarch. Unfortunately, the last time I looked, the USA was still pretending to be a democracy.

May 30, 2016 at 4:07 PM | Unregistered CommenterEntropic man

michael hart, economic and foreign policy are broad fields. There must be something more that supporters can point to than that he wouldn't be a stupid as Bush Jr (although that would be a good start) and that he'd oppose climate policy unless it affected his golf courses.

May 30, 2016 at 6:44 PM | Unregistered CommenterRaff

Raff

In terms of capability Donald Trump completely and utterly outclassses presidents such as Carter, Clinton, Obama.

In what way? And as nobody else can, can you identify a consistent Trump position on economic or foreign policy?
May 30, 2016 at 2:25 PM | Unregistered CommenterRaff

Raff I would rate him as far `outclassing those presidents in terms of:
- Intelligence (in terms of insight and comprehension of situations of immense complexity)
- Ability to get things done, including selecting the best people for the job and giving them the incentives to do it.
- Profound negotiation skills
- His ability to persuade


You should have no expectation of Donald Trump spelling out policies in advance of his being elected. He often says things like "We need to find out what is going on and then see what to do about it" but, as has been pointed out, you won't find him spelling out details.

May 30, 2016 at 7:46 PM | Unregistered CommenterMartin A