Bishop Hill The greens and the fascists
Dec 27, 2015 Greens 
Taking a few days off from the blog has at least given me a chance to finish reading Jonah Goldberg's Liberal Fascism. This book (buy here) was a bit of an eye-opener for me, setting out in mind-boggling detail the links - both historical and philosophical - between fascism and the ideas espoused by modern day liberals and progressives. The sheer weight of evidence is extraordinary - from welfare, to land reform, to greenery, to the worship of the state it's hard to find any other areas of public policy in which the two have so much in common. (Goldberg points out that anti-semitism was part of the Nazi creed, but not that of the Italian or Spanish fascists, and was therefore a policy of Hitlerism, but not really of fascism.)
But what struck me about the book was how often I noticed that there are also clear parallels between fascism and environmentalism. At a high level, both are alt-religions, which their adherents seek to impose on society with Jesuit fervour, spurred on by fear of impending disaster. Both are openly totalitarian, in the original sense of the word: in other words the creed is supposed to apply in every aspect of life, in every area of policy, and in the private sphere as much as in the public.
The methods are often the same too. Where fascists tried to generate an almost permanent sense of crisis in order to unite their country (Mussolini) or their volk (Hitler) around a share sense of national purpose, environmentalists try to create a permanent sense of ecological breakdown in order to unite society around their programme.
But at a detailed policy level too, the parallels are remarkable. From attempts to change diets, to the hijacking of the education system, it's the same thing. And the methods have remarkable similarities too, with guilt used as a tool, the language abused in service of political ends and the use of cod-psychologists to target dissenters. And even more sinister are the common history of fascism, environmentalism, population concerns and eugenics.
Goldberg is keen to point out that the liberal and progressive left of today do not share the violent tendencies of their fascist forebears: theirs is a gentler totalitarianism (again in the original sense of the word). The same case can be made for the greens. At least for now; it is hard to avoid observing that their rhetoric is becoming steadily more violent and the calls for unmistakably fascist policy measures are ever more common.
Watch with care.
Reader Comments (216)
I just bought the ebook version. Reading it now. It is great so far.
If you haven't read Sinclair Lewis' novel 'It Can't Happen Here', then you should if you are interested in fascism. Also, there is Leonard Peikoff's non-fiction book 'The Ominous Parallels' on the potential of fascism in America. Also, I recommend Hannah Arendt's non-fiction book 'The Origins of Totalitarianism' as a background on where the roots of fascism might come from, although the book isn't focused specifically on fascism.
John
All: Please stop feeding the dork. Just ignore the crapulent idiot and it might get the message to F*** Off.
And so, the question remains unanswered...
Which political system ensures (or aims to ensure) that your labor is your property and, consequently, that what you purchase with your labor is also your property?
Enlighten the fools, please.
Aila; Sorry, but you are the unenlightened fool if you think it is actually capable of responding to questions.
My impression of the current troll is that he is that rare bird, the manic in fully manic phase for extended time.
I can imagine this one sitting in a nice old pub off the river three or four sheets to the wind, far past knowing what he is saying, but engaging in that near oldest of art forms, the endless drunken soliloquy.
Hunter,
I think you have let this malevolent shite con you into thinking it's an innocent drunkard:
"sitting in a nice old pub off the river three or four sheets to the wind, far past knowing what he is saying".
This is deliberate and intentional trolling.
Aila "Enlighten the fools please"
It is a bit late to ask for advice, now all the fools have left their climate celebrations in Paris.
Zubrin failed basic thermodynamics .
On this point I am correct.
Sorry folks but he almost would have been better off putting a bottle of Powers into his car.
He is a mobilization type of guy.
A lover of the state .
The state as a religion rather then a useful mechanism, a modest enabler.
Salopian has exposed himself as a limited person.
The more he insults - the more I win.
I have to admit the troll inside me is just loving his vitriol.
I can see the poor man foaming at the mouth now.
Its just wonderful.
Thanks for the hand John Salopian Bull but punches to the gut do not hurt me
Win a argument and I may come to respect you.
At this moment however I would beat you when blind drunk , such is your limitations .
Nothing worse then a English dullard who thinks he is a something.
All my posts were on point but no effective response.....
Says it all really
Keep punching the bag.....
PS Avila
I gave you the outlines if not the framework of my distributive ideal state .....
Do not blame me if you cannot run with it.
Its not the Leviathan state that most people recognize.
For the most part it does not exist.
You must learn to throw the ring into the fire.
Let it go and all that.
Much of our present struggle is entirely unnecessary.
A consequence of artificial centrally imposed scarcity .
Aila - we have a brief introduction for you.
"Many times Social Crediters, when discussing some aspect on Social Credit, have been confronted with a question such as, “Can you give it to me in a nutshell?”
Obviously, to compress into a very brief statement something that, although not difficult to understand, runs counter to many of the accepted ideas that people have about economics, politics and social problems, is fraught with danger. The purpose of this very brief silhouette against a background of a very large canvas should be sufficient to show a picture which can be understood by those who are quite unfamiliar to the thoughts expresse"
http://www.socred.org/index.php/blogs/view/an-outline-of-social-credit
The late news that veteran hard living rocker Lemmy from Motörhead has sadly passed away and now over to Dork of Cork for comment.
@ Dork:
You said: "Salopian has exposed himself as a limited person.... John Salopian Bull .....Nothing worse then a [sic] English dullard"
I suggest you check out the definition of "Salopian", before you go throwing insults around. Dwi yn Gymraeg, nid Saesneg (I am Welsh, not English). Please troll off you ignorant fuckwit.
Another call for fascist censorship
One should realise that the concept of 'trying' (or aiming) is merely a commitment to failure. An example: You want me to build a wall for you by a set time. I say to you: 'I shall try to have it built by your deadline' - and I fail to hit the deadline. The excuse of many in this situation is to say: 'I only said I'd try'. That was the commitment to fail. If you want a wall built get the builder to commit to succeed, not to try. Anyone committing to you that they shall 'try' to do something for you is merely setting up a false prospectus: trying is their measure of success; but to you it is a commitment to fail.
If a State aims to ensure that you own the fruits of your labour do not be surprised when you find that the State owns the fruits instead, after all, the State only said it would try....
HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!
I haven't had a chance to read Goldberg's book (nor am I likely to in the near future, for various reasons!) ... But I did come across a 2009 review by Nick Cohen in the Graun, which I thought contained an interesting perspective.
Cohen tells his readers that:
And while I'm here ...
Dec 29, 2015 at 4:26 PM | Unregistered Commenter Kevin Marshall wrote (inter alia)
I'm inclined to suspect that in their heart of hearts, the higher level bureaucratic honchos at the UN have long realized that climate [whatever] is simply not cutting the "do as we say" mustard. So, while some still valiantly labour to keep our eyes on the CO2 prize, the even more amorphous "sustainable development" is being brought to the forefront (albeit in a rather convoluted and haphazard way) via the new, improved (circa March 2014) ECOSOC and the UN's Department of Economic and Social Affairs (DESA).
But thanks to ECOSOC, DESA - and Gaia alone probably knows which other arms, elbows, hands, fingers etc. of the UN - there's a relatively new kid on the environmental/climate change block: the "high level political forum", sometimes called the High Level Political Forum on Sustainable Development (HLPF)
HLPF does have a website - which is far from consistent on the navigation front (or even the "content" front, from day to day since I first stumbled across it) But don't take my word for this, take a look at the Sustainable Development Knowledge Platform.
Needless to say, the United Nations Environment Program (UNEP, parent of the IPCC and manufacturer of scary stories since its inception in 1972 - courtesy of the recently deceased Maurice Strong) has quite a lot (17 pages worth, in fact) to say regarding what the HLPF should look like - and how it should function. Kinda gives a whole new meaning to the word "transparent", as do so very many word-salads generated by the UNEP and/or its ever-growing list of offspring.
There are 17 "Sustainable development" goals (see https://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/index.php?menu=1300) of which No. 13 is ... wait for it ... "Take urgent action to combat climate change and its impacts".
Interestingly enough "carbon*" rates zero mentions - while "science" rates 3 mentions and "least developed" gets a whopping 22 mentions.
And on a somewhat related note ... I do hope that everyone remembered to celebrate "International Mother Earth Day" on April 22. If not, may I suggest that as "penance" you take a look at the Chronology of Harmony with Nature.
I'm sure it must be pure coincidence that this chronology began in 2009 - the very same year that global warming/climate change "slipped into a coma", according to the then about to move on to greener pastures, Yvo de Boer, Christiana <Tinkerbell> Figueres' immediate predecessor as United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) head honcho.
But it took de Boer - and others - approximately four years prior to even acknowledging the 2009 Copenhagen COP-flop.
Any bets on how many years it will take before any UN affiliated honcho acknowledges the paucity of actual accomplishments in Paris?!
Salopian
So you were born in a ditch on Offa's Dyke.....
Nothing wrong with that.
I was conceived on a returning American troop ship.
As a embryo I landed in Queenstown......
You obviously take yourself too seriously.
It must be such a burden.
I like the dork- a bit wordy as a troll but mostly harmless.
Just skip past him.
His meds are likely to kick in soon as the New Year starts and he can get his refills again.
He will still be a troll, but will post less often or even get bored and leave.
His anti-capitalist gibberish is just that.
@Hunter.
I a sorry to say it is not absurd.
My advice - dump the Victorian propaganda books.
From Scott of the Antarctic to Alf Tupper running the 4minute mile with fish and chips in hand.
The British establishment only changed its tune after the Boer war.
Its Rickets infested soldiery were exposed by large well fed agrarians .
Rickets (also known as the English disease ) was first recorded on a large scale in England following the enclosures .
https://books.google.ie/books?id=z8I7AwAAQBAJ&pg=PT97&lpg=PT97&dq=rickets+in+the+British+army+boer+war&source=bl&ots=Odnj6_TEf9&sig=VGTijP_iT-0_uuuo3lprTE3ujMY&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiN6sO404PKAhWHjg8KHWY_ANAQ6AEIJjAD#v=onepage&q=rickets%20in%20the%20British%20army%20boer%20war&f=false
The last 500~ years on these Isles have been a complete disaster.
However the propaganda runs very deep.
Indeed one commentator with Irish roots on this site praised the Lord Protector !!!!!
Quite extraordinary.
The man was the ultimate and perhaps the prototype fascist.
A terminator .
Just finished 'Liberal Fascism' by Jonah Goldberg.
What struck me most was the hardwired casual association of the formal philosophy of pragmatism with both European Fascism and American Fascism. Need to take a harder look at the formal philosophy of pragmatism.
John
Dork,
My lovely but all to brief visit to the emerald Isle opened my eyes to Cromwell and as a Scot-Irish-English heritage American it led me to reconsider some assumptions.
That said, calling the last 500 years a complete disaster begs the question of "by whose definition"?
I really wish I could recall the name of that amazing pub in Cork on the Lee river about one block towards the bus station from the large 19th century Greek Revival Catholic Church. Not far from the Franciscan.
You were probably there expostulating, lol.
Here's praying for the Cork of Dork.
It's a simple question, no matter how desperately you try to avoid it. Which is a pity of sorts, given your swagger. But, then again, the plight of the cat and all that.
Now some, not Eli to be sure, might think that it was the liberals who supported various fascistic governments in, for example, Spain (Falange),Portugal (Salazar), Chile (Pinochet) and bastions of freedom like the National Review who called for their overthrow.
Eli, good to note you still don't think. Allegedly, of course.
Some might think, that you are trying to avoid libel laws, when writing in that manner to spread rumours gossip and smears. In the UK, the dead can't sue for libel but Eli thinks he thinks best.......
Hunter; no disrespect, but I think perhaps your "Scot-Irish-English heritage American" ancestry may be a giving you a slightly rose-tinted perspective on both the "emerald isle" and the dork. The former has gone tits-up due to its Government's total incompetence since it became part of the EU. The latter sees Irish history through anti-British beer-goggles
Eli, you forget Pinochet's best pal who destroyed political freedom in Britain. Not that the average Blue Peter viewer would have noticed. She did it by stamping out politics in universities and public services, but more importantly by sending the security services after street level activists.
Her minder, Mr Murdoch is a well known American liberal.
In the introduction to his book 'Enemy Within', Guardian journalist Seumas Milne wrote that in the Spring of 1990, (Miles) Copeland warned British miners union leaders Arthur Scargill and Peter Heathfield that the CIA and MI5 had been involved in kick starting a media campaign against them and helped to frame corrupt allegations against them.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=55iV2JlUz9YC&printsec=frontcover&dq=enemy+within&hl=en&sa=X&ei=uLLfUMjXI8LL0QWYtYGoAw#v=onepage&q=enemy%20within&f=false
(I wrote that Wikipedia entry)
Rabett, Eli is just a voice in your head. Ignore it.
@Hunter
Mine of course......
So many pubs at one time - now sadly culled - almost out of existence
I suppose Its a bit like watching wildebeest drinking from evaporating water holes .
Up close it seems the same number of thirsty herbivores exist.
However take a little trip on a hot air balloon.....
Cork is a synthetic town now.
I exist but do not live inside it.
It has lost its Lilliputian character.
Its pubs are now sadly fake today.
My Cork is inside Chet Raymos head now.
Its a fiction.
A comfortable fiction but yes just a fiction.
The man has wonderful powers of observation for a American.
Patience is the key to it.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PKi7hwpiNbk
@hunter; the dork cannot identify your "amazing pub on the Lee river", because it probably hasn't even been to Cork.
Salopian
Whatever you say you you you Hybrid Saxon /Taffy dude.
But his directions are vague.
The river splits in two you see.
He could be talking about McCurtain street where many Americans stay ( the church description fits) or across the rivers to the Lobby bar and its sisters located near the city hall.
These famous pubs are no longer with us.
You must understand I have been to more pub wakes then funerals these past few years.
Read this.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/keeping-it-live-at-the-lobby-176492.html
@dork: There is no saxon in our bloodline, 'you you you' [sic] stupid irish cunt (assuming you really are irish - or are you just another sentimental irish yank dude?).
@Hunter
This will help to jog your memory
At 13.10 the cyclist begins to turn into McCurtain street.
He subsequently crosses both rivers ( you can see the station) and at 18.00 you can now see the Lobby bar (now gone) and its defunct sisters located on the corner terrace.
Never a Lobby bar type of person but like most pubs going the way of the dodo it lost its soul many years before it closed.
Cork is a very sad little place.
A nasty victim of usury.
Capitalism is state sponsored usury Salopian.
Sorry to prick your bubble but it is.
The C word is very very strong stuff.
I don't think I have ever used it.
If I did I would have been very very angry.
Why the aggression ?
Sorry, but you strike me as a brave internet sprite holding the soul of a coward.
Sorry ,
I forgot the video , silly Mick.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qwcgrbx7eUE
Eli Rabett at 30/12/15 3.32am
Under libertarianism you are free to defecate in your own house wherever you like, but when you are in another’s house you defecate according to the norms of the owner of the house, which is normally in their facilities set aside for the purpose.
Under fascism nobody is allowed to defecate in any place but a duly certified WC according to laid down cultural norms, as established by the true leader.
Under communism, all people have equal rights, but to maintain this it is necessary for the few who know the true will of the masses to be more equal than others.
Under American Liberalism (derived from cocktail-party socialism), those who know the true will of the people have a believe they have a right defecate where ever they like, but those who have not imbibed the special potions to enlightenment must put a bung in it. As American Liberals know they create an especially bad odour, they always pollute other people’s houses.
@ dork:"The C word is very very strong stuff."
You are a self-professed troll (and please do not deny it, you have admitted to it earlier). If you, choose to make remarks such as 'English dullard',"born in a ditch on Offa's Dyke", "Hybrid Saxon/Taffy", towards other commenters, then please don't be surprised if their responses are (in your view) angry/aggressive - if you can't take it, don't dish it out.
No - that's something you would say before a bar fight would begin.
You are not engaging in jest and yet you physically cannot punch me one.
A worm of a man me thinks.
There is no point to your verbal sewage other then mindless escalation.
I gave you numerous opportunities to turn it down / laugh at our shared absurdity but you refused.
You have exposed yourself mate.
PS
I have admitted to having a little compartment of brain which enjoys the trolling kick (especially when a turd responds in a clumsy aggressive manner)
But that was not honestly part of my posts (other then responding to your ungood self)
The point of my posts is to look at the situation from a different angle.
For example observing the complexity of the different environmental groups
Capitalist , Agrarian and into the wild sections.
Not to box them into the green square and fall for the trap of corporate counter propaganda.
Salopian
Edward Abbey - now he was a into the wild type of guy .
You should read stuff.
It will do you good , perhaps smooth out that mindless aggression
Salut
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FUGTzfrpMJ4
Woh, let's enjoy this a wee bit more.
I promise I am under no illusions like the sad American-gone-native we shared the bus with from Gallway to Limerick. The pathetic schmuck copped a brogue accent to tut tut the dear Mrs hunter for making the bus leave about 2 minutes lated due to a potty break.
Ireland was never paradise- the many castle ruins prove that quite well.
For Dork, we were off the northern fork, near the Blarney road (stayed in a lovely b-n-b literally across the street from the bus stop to Blarney).
As for the capitalism you hate, I would hate it as well- crony, insider driven, self-auditing, etc.
That aberration is not capitalism anymore than Chavez's kleptocratic legacy is socialism.
I frankly think that under the withering heat of technological change nearly all of the traditional boundaries, left-right, capitalist-communist are becoming outmoded. Now more than ever character, transparency, ethics are called for. The EU/US oligarch of billionaires and insider lackeys is hardly familiar with those concepts.
The commonality of socialism and fascism - both being leftist ideologies - was a non-controversial and accepted fact of the time and is also documented in an earlier book, Three New Deals.
http://www.amazon.com/Three-New-Deals-Reflections-Roosevelts/dp/0312427433
wat Dabney
The book you link to says nothing about real Socialism which involves a massive transfer of wealth from the richest to the poorest in society.
"Three New Deals: Reflections on Roosevelt's America, Mussolini's Italy, and Hitler's Germany, 1933-1939 "
The stock market of each country worked normally throuout this period.
The admirers and supporters of Hitler, Mussolini, Franco and Hirohito were the very rich plutocrats of each country.
People in Europe (and the rest of the world) look with astonishment at the ill informed citizens of the USA who regard Obama and Roosevelt as socialists.
http://www.netadvisor.org/2014/03/06/obamas-biggest-supporters-are-wall-street-democrat-billionaires/#.VoTtNo_XLDc
For the real origins of fascist tendency in America read Jack London's 'Iron Heel'.
John Whitman (Dec 30, 2015 at 2:12 PM) in looking for the roots of these dreadful movements, writes of fascists and communists taking advantage of the 'pragmatist' philosophy . That takes us to the late 19th and early 20th centuries, but earlier in the 19th we have the inspirer of many an evil action, Karl Marx himself. I have often read of him being a thoroughly vile person, as well as a developer of junk theories, but recently I obtained a copy of a remarkable book called 'Karl Marx: Racist' by Nathaniel Weyl. Now I am getting chapter and verse on this hideous man, and his destructive, poisonous notions.
Here is an extract:
Hilary Ostrov (Dec 30, 2015 at 11:00 AM): not only do I wish I were as clever as you, but also that I could put over my views as succinctly and simply as you manage to do; sweet, with a delightfully acerbic twist. Yours is a delightfully clear pool of lucidity in a rather muddy well of acrimony that this thread is descending into.
As for the left/right argument, perhaps the wise words of the Rev. William John Henry Boetcker – though often mistakenly attributed to Abraham Lincoln – should be considered:
When I was about 14, I coined the term, “The politics of envy” to describe the fascisistic socialism of the left. I still cannot hold any favour for a political system that incorporates so much hate that the left does – as one of the leading lights of the Labour party, Aneurin Bevan, has said “no amount of cajolery can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party....They are lower than vermin.” That amount of vitriol cannot be conducive to a healthy philosophy.@Hunter.
I am lost
There is a Blarney street and a Blarney road.
The street version is a ancient and long pathway that was the terminus of cattle and sheep drovers.
Cattle were essentially directed near the North gate bridge.
Medieval towns had a very tight distribution system, very little was lost in capitalistic friction.
As for those Castles....
Strongbow famously engaged in expeditionary warfare on the back of a Jewish loan.
Cromwell increased the intensity of extraction
The dogs which followed him were the credit banks.
You should read a guy by the name of Chris Ryan.
He follows the ancient pathway of the fall
The expulsion from Eden.
He blames agriculture for our problems
In particular the corrupting power dynamics of autumn saving.
Distributist and social credit ideas attempt to overcome these forces in both agricultural and Industrial spheres.
The lack of understanding and movement in these areas turns people into Edward Abby like figures.
People who have had enough and want to return
return
Yes
Chris Ryan
Sex at dawn.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xOUcQeNzzx0
Chris Ryan? Wasn’t he the one who got away?
Different Chris Ryan
More of a Make love not war type of guy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Ryan_(author)
Kevin dear, if you deficate in on the floor in your own house you expose your neighbors to cholera. If you deficate in your own house using the toilet, you use your neighbors taxes for your pleasure but at least you do not spread vile disease
Rabett dear:
Before you go around correcting others on the pathogenesis of infectious diseases, you really need to do some basic research and learn how to spell.
Cholera is a water-borne disease and "deficate"[sic] is spelled defaecate.
Stupid lagomorph.