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Cold light of day is earlier than usual

As predicted in our lighthearted look at the COPs, the breakthrough moment at COP21 was reached yesterday. The cold light of day appears to have been reached almost immediately afterwards.

Grand promises of Paris climate deal undermined by squalid retrenchments

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Reader Comments (122)

Salopian -- That the EU is not a member of the UN is true, but it is a party to the UNFCCC which is different and has it's own representation at COP21. I've just read through the Paris Agreement. It seems that the regional blocks, of which the EU is one, can act for the group where it has been given that privilige for specific subject areas by its members. So in some parts of the agreement it may act as a bloc, in others the individual nations retain their prerogative. That explains both the reports referring to the EU negotiations, and the need for UK Government to be represented. I have no idea on what areas the UK (or other EU nations) have retained authority, or delegated it.

Dec 13, 2015 at 11:29 PM | Unregistered CommenterJoe Ronan

M Courtney,

Sorry, no disrespect, but I haven't got a clue WTF you are on about?

"Banning private transport is illiberal. No way do I recommend restricting people's right to spend their resources on cars. But most journeys are not a choice. They are required. If the State provides a communal transport system to replace the unfree commutes then those who would only make the travel they must make is less penalised than those who make such trips and can still enjoy travel in their own time."

If you live in a rural environment, where there are no, or only limited 'communal transport systems', and transport isn't just about 'unfree commutes', but to have to travel miles to get to medical, shopping, banking and other services - you have no fucking choice than private transport to access these, but perhaps, you were just referring to the 'urban' microcosom?

Dec 13, 2015 at 11:59 PM | Registered CommenterSalopian

Did I hear correctly, earlier on a radio news program, that this 2C target is aimed to be met by 2100 ?? !! ( and we might try hard to get to 1.5C) . If that is correct , that alone make COP21 an absolute failure --they might as well have thrown a dart at the board to pick a year.

Dec 14, 2015 at 2:07 AM | Unregistered CommenterRoss

I may have missed it in all the detail Ross, but I couldn't see any mention in the agreement of a date, just that the temperature rise is hopefully to be kept below 2C.

Dec 14, 2015 at 7:53 AM | Unregistered CommenterJoe Ronan

"I doubt any of the negotiators believe that there will be no more than 1.5C of global warming as a result of these talks"

For once the Graun speaks truth, but not in the way they think.

Of course there will be no more than 1.5C of global warming "as a result of these talks".

Or for any other reason, come to that.

So logically the statement is correct.

Dec 14, 2015 at 8:24 AM | Unregistered CommenterAndrew Duffin

Andrew D hits the nail perfectly. The Paris seems to be a success guaranteed, the CAGW-team merely needs to re-rewrite the historical temperature "data" (or to put in scientific language, recognized outside climate science: to re-interpret their interpretations, for what they present is not data at all):

and they have succeeded in keeping the warming under 1,5 degrees.

Dec 14, 2015 at 9:36 AM | Unregistered CommenterPethefin

So it will be in the interests of the enlightened loons to stop fiddling the temperature record and start fiddling the CO2 record.
Their super dooper success in Paris (bring on the dancing girls) means that they have solved the problem of the rising temperature, which , conveniently, has not risen since 1997 (to any significant degree within the error bars....for the sake of the pedantists). They will need to quietly remove the Karl Korrections (collective nouns) and allow the temperature of the 30's to rise again and the 2000's to fall and then start to correct the CO2 record to show that with only a few more regulations and a transfer of power to the pseudo-intellectual elite we can all return to the Garden of Eden, eat our soylent green, and live happily ever after. I look forward to CO2 being back to 280ppm by 2035.

Dec 14, 2015 at 9:47 AM | Unregistered CommenterIvor Ward

80% of us live in that 'urban microcosm'. Those who didn't made a choice to be disconnected from urbanity and they can always move back again.

Being on the edge of town the constant stench of farmers 'muck' from the adjacent fields makes me wonder where is this extra-urban air quality that we all aspire to. Do we have to live up a tree in the trossachs to get it? I'd honestly rather have the diesel fumes.

Dec 14, 2015 at 10:04 AM | Unregistered CommenterJamesG

What you forget is that under UN's agenda 21 you will be living in a Magacity and you will only be allowed access to the 'rewilded' countryside with a special permit, which in your case as one of the 'deniers' will be denied unless you have attended a re-education course,and only then to hoe rows of turnips..

Dec 14, 2015 at 10:11 AM | Unregistered CommenterRoger Tolson

Andrew Duffin, the Paris agreement reminds me of those people who used to shout at the moon to drive it away during an eclipse, to bring the sun back. It always worked.

Dec 14, 2015 at 10:20 AM | Registered CommenterPaul Matthews

I live in a south Kerry community (summer blow in only ) where the community walked what is now the Kerry way walkway to mass on a Sunday , a leisurely 2 hour walk out and 2 hour walk back.
They subsequently built a church in the late 1950s just as attendance was declining.

You only need a car in a rural community if you are short of time tokens.
Today , a lack of purchasing power is forcing people to go further to the German aldi store 20+ miles away .
Even today I know of a 80year old woman who cycles a round trip of 15 miles to feed her pet cattle.
No need to ban cars , they serve a useful purpose.
But Its the 2 million on Irish roads which are destroying local purchasing power , it the sheer scale of the car / tank army which is the problem.
They need to be feed at a tempo never seen before.
These are now not machines which help mankind.
To a alien visitor they would appear to be our masters.

Dec 14, 2015 at 10:29 AM | Unregistered CommenterThe Dork of Cork

I'm not impressed by people's suggestions for saving CO2.
They seem just the same as the "have your cake and eat it", dumb thinking of the greens.

M Courtny says replace some car journeys with subsidised buses....Jesus that's nothing
If urbanisation was planned properly with a maximum size on a town before a brand new one was made ..then you could walk everywhere..Now most people make a choice not to live near their job, cos they can.

@Stony said ..Go nuclear.
All railways to be electrified. that really doesn't save much CO2
Possibly subsidise high speed passenger trains. (They already are ..we people who don't have ready access to trains in our areas already massively subsidise London infrastructure..Similarly giving people free collective taxi journey's from Lon to Brum is cheaper than the HS2 subsidy
remove VAT from cycles and cycle accessories. .. Daft, cost is not a deterrent to using bikes ..rain is

Hint someone who spends $20K/year has a bigger footprint that someone who spends $10K
That's why I made more radical suggestions earlier Dec 13, 3:40 PM

Dec 14, 2015 at 11:29 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

What's COP21 about ?
Partially that maybe a lot of investor people are sitting at the casino table with all their chips on the card that says "fossil fuels will get too expensive to use"
..And the problem is they are too far into the game to consider another strategy..For them that HAS TO come true.

Dec 14, 2015 at 11:43 AM | Registered Commenterstewgreen

The British mentality orbits around the saving of time.
Extra energy is expended to save time units.
A Reggie Perrin world of the daily commute.

This is a deeply capitalistic concept that is not seen in peasant society .In a peasant society where work gets done when it needs to be done.

Time is a seasonal rather then 24 hour thingie in peasant society.

Dec 14, 2015 at 11:55 AM | Unregistered CommenterThe Dork of Cork

There is a reason why societies which work on that basis are peasant societies.

To be an advanced society requires cooperation and collaboration. To achieve this effectively means that people need to be in the same place at the same time.

People used to plan their lives around availability of public transport, but the world changed when a better alternative was developed. It's called progress.

Look at what the watermelons want in terms of a collectivist society. It looks a lot like the old Eastern Bloc. Banning cars is just a convenient means to that end and CAGW is only the current excuse for it. They used to claim it was necessary because everybody couldn't have a car, until it became obvious that wasn't true. I remember the arguments based on warmist - like dodgy statistics and graphs which went up and up regardless of the fact that total population is a limiting factor.

Dec 14, 2015 at 12:17 PM | Unregistered CommenterNW

You are making the assumption that peasant societies are not advanced.
Chaucer s Merrie England was a peasant society.
It was not primitive.

The peasant society of Ireland was broken during the Tudor conquest.
It appeared poor and indeed was poor as they were forced to export in a unbalanced fashion so as to pay the usury bills.
Previously the trade relationship with Spain was more balanced (Beef for wine exchange)

As for England the mean standard of living did not recover for 300 years !!!

Dec 14, 2015 at 1:23 PM | Unregistered CommenterThe Dork of Cork


Dec 14, 2015 at 1:51 PM | Unregistered CommenterH2O: the miracle molecule

To be an advanced society requires cooperation and collaboration. To achieve this effectively means that people need to be in the same place at the same time.
But much less so than even 15 or 20 years ago.
My daughter has just booked herself passage on the cross-channel ferry for two weeks time. She is currently half-way down New Zealand South Island!

Dec 14, 2015 at 1:52 PM | Registered CommenterMike Jackson


Well - I was amazed.

At the end, the people at the top table (isn't there always a top table) stood up, and to much applause and whooping, announced that they had formulated an agreement that would 'keep global warming below 2C...'

WOW..! That was easy..! How come it has taken so long..?

So many conferences..!

So many threats..!

So many 'last chances'..!

One conference - and 'tis done..!

Oh, well - the Greens can all go back to their yurts; us 'skeptics' can resume complaining about the price of fish - and - magically - the world is not going to warm more than 2C.

What a relief, eh..?

Not missing anything, am I.........?

Dec 14, 2015 at 2:30 PM | Unregistered Commentersherlock1

Absolutely. Bring it on!

Dec 14, 2015 at 4:20 PM | Unregistered CommenterRichard Green

James Hansen is looking too much like Homer Simpson these days ...


Dec 14, 2015 at 5:56 PM | Unregistered CommenterJack Hughes

Downloadable copy of "What's the point of the Met Office. Just in case it becomes an unfile elsewhere. (Sorry if this is already covered: I haven't finished reading all these posts yet)

Dec 15, 2015 at 12:59 AM | Unregistered CommenterClunking Fist

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