Bishop Hill The green, the crooked and the incompetent
Feb 25, 2013 DECC Energy: grid Leo Hickman tweeted a link to this fascinating set of minutes from the September meeting of the DECC Science Advisory Group (SAG). SAG features several familiar names, including John Shepherd, David Mackay, Stuart Haszeldine and David Warrilow.
The whole document is worth a look, and it's only seven pages long. We learn much of what is worrying DECC's scientific advisers, for example the horrific (but presumably distant) prospect of low energy prices:
John Shepherd pointed out that whilst energy efficiency policies are required, they risk being ineffective while energy prices are low. Other SAG members observed that incentives such as a substantial price on carbon were needed to promote innovation and reducing carbon intensity, and it was vital to avoid carbon lock-in.
There is no sign that any of the assembled intellects noted that wind energy locks in the use of gas as a means to provide power when benign (i.e. still) weather conditions prevail.
The discussion also encompassed smart meters:
It was agreed that there is a need for much more work to be done to better understand consumer behaviour both now and with improved controls, as there is high potential for unintended consequences. Even simple devices such as easily and remotely programmable room thermostats (see above) could be very effective. An important innovation would be improving and reducing the costs of heat meters. Experience elsewhere where heat is sold directly (e.g. with district heating schemes) could be helpful. David MacKay expressed his desire to set up a research programme to trial innovations in the area of smart thermostats and heat meters, with the aim of reducing costs.
Your central heating in the hands of the green, the crooked and the incompetent - that's quite a scary prospect. Smart meters will be with us starting at the end of next year.
Bishop Hill
Leo Hickman is particularly interested in points 7, 8 and 9. Point 9 is extraordinary, apparently showing that Hadley Centre scientific papers are sent to DECC for review before when they are submitted to journals.
The SAG discussed the current requirement for DECC to receive Hadley Centre papers at the point of their submission for publication.
How long this requirement has been in place is anyone's guess, but it is extraordinary.
Update: Perhaps not - they see papers when they are submitted, not before.
Reader Comments (67)
Oops!
The meters themselves will have the capaI thought they had got you Billy ... finishing half way through a sentence like that!
Figure 2 in the explanatory document at:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/smart-metering-implementation-programme-technical-specifications
... is a hoot!
Who is going to provide the part of the system cloured yellow in the diagram? It looks almost like you would need to employ someone to manage that for you - perhaps a 'Domestic Sustainability Manager'?
PS if the yellow stuff is connected to the blue stuff - it can be hacked!
I am also deeply suspicious why DECC would need an 'Evidence Team', unless of course they were manufacturing it.
Here (Ontario) we've been forced onto 'smart' meters since some time last year.
It has been interesting to watch it dawn on people that this has resulted in their bills going up instead of down. The propaganda did really convince most people that the smart meters (which charge different rates depending on your time of use) would cut their bills.
The reality , of course - which was obvious to anyone who gave it the briefest of analysis - has been that bills have shot up. Even people who have embraced it, and try to time their heavy load activities for off-peak times, have seen their bills go up. A lot of people have seen their bills double, and there is a strong case they will double again in the next few years.
The 'smart thermostats' are a different matter. They have been peddled as a 'freebie' to those gullible enough to sign on. "Get this free thermostat and fancy readout installed completely free!".
My neighbour now has a nice wireless plasma readout in his leaving room of the real-time consumption of his house. You can set it to show the actual $ and cents being burned if you want. Actually a nice toy.
The kicker of course is the utility company can (and will) now control his heating and cooling systems.
This, my friends, is the smart grid of which they speak.
As some folks have commented above, it is unlikely they will tinker with his heating. My heating is natural gas, and even though I live somewhere that seldom gets above -10c for 4 months of the year, I've seem my heating bills halve thank to shale gas coming up from the U.S.
No - they will be going after the air conditioning.
Some weeks in Summer we get 30c-40c daytime temperatures which make things uncomfortable indoors, especially at night.
The A/C labours away to keep things in the mid to high 20s.
At periods of high electricity demand such as these the 'smart grid' will kick in.
"Ah!'" says my neighbour. "They said they would only adjust the thermostat by a degree or so, so I'm ok with it".
I have to explain to him that they really need to set it above the ambient temperature of the house to make any difference.
For example the reality is the A/C could be set to 26c overnight, but it never actually gets there - it runs flat out to hold onto 28c.
The 'smart grid' will not set the thermostat to 27c in this example - rather to 29c!
In other words, they do not adjust your thermostat, they turn off your cooling source.
Just as an addenda, to naively assume that 'the populace' will not 'stand' this is historically absurd - the 'populace' has stood many things, including the most violent and vile tyranny. It is you whom must not stand, my friends, it is you, who are still free to oppose this nonsense, who can still oppose it. Nothing is given to us, for free, including our freedom.
Bish: I don't know how power pricing works in the UK, but its probably similar to Australia (because our free enterprise power grid is modelled on the UK system once the central / government electricity authorities were all privatised).
That method of operation is that the householder pays a tariff for power, and this is normally adjusted about once a year by the regulator.
The retailed is thus paid a fixed price for power by the consumer.
Unfortunately for the retailers, they buy power from a market pool, with a variable price. Generators and retailers are in what is effectively an endless auction.
So the retailers buy at a variable price and sell at a fixed price.
Now you see why they hate this system, and want us to all have smart meters. Smart meters get around the regulators fixed retail prices and allow different (time of day) pricing. This moves the pricing risk from the retailer to the consumer.
It makes the retailers more profitable, and it makes it easier for them to run their businesses.
Smart meters are a complete con job, bad for the consumer.
I am in agreement with Harry. Smart meters are about relieving energy suppliers of the need to manage their own costs. They will be passed on to consumers in near real time.
I wonder if any clever people have looked into whether it will bring stability through people moderating their energy use when supply is temporarily short (which the government, utilities and lobby groups seem convinced it will) or would quickly cause chaos by some form of price/supply resonation.(high prices = everyone (or computers) switch things off, followed by low prices = everyone (or computers) switch things on, repeated and exaggerated as time progresses).
If the benefits of an energy company pooling customer resources to get economies of scale and buying energy in bulk, in advance disappear due to smart meters and real time pricing why would we still need energy companies inbetween us and the producers? The only answer that springs to mind is for collecting taxes from indirectly rather than directly.
Jud,
Are utilities companies changing the aircon settings remotely or just rely on a display like your neighbour has showing them eating through energy that is being charged at a high price and expecting the consumer to do the turning down or switching off?
Will 2013 See Smart Meters Fail?
http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/comment/smart-meters-government-2013-102885
Don Keiller
I posted on this once beore. I too will refuse to have a smart meter . I can see the headlines now-
"OAP grandmother of five imprisoned for refusing a smart meter........"
Gareth,
They quite literally switch the A/C off and on.
See the link here for an idea...
http://www.hydroottawa.com/residential/conservation/programs/peaksaver-plus/
In fact, the website in general might give you a good feel for the way things are are likely to go over there.
Ontario has committed $9B to Samsung alone for wind and solar (this with a $260B debt and $16B deficit).
The population is around 30m for comparison.
Sorry.
Ontario population ~13 million
Canada population ~30 million
Smart meters don't have to control a/c.
Whats usually done is to offer a package deal: let us turn your a/c off in periods of peak demand, and we'll give you a lower tariff.
The way its sold is that the a/c would be switched off for a period of up to 15 minutes.
There have been pilot systems rolled out here which do this using a variety of technologies.
Similar things have been done here and in many other places to turn on and off electric off-peak tariff hot water heaters.
The part where it gets sinister is where it goes beyond just turning it off for a short period when demand is at a peak - its passing control to some other company / utility / government WHOSE AGENDA IS DIFFERENT TO MINE.
Where I live, in summer, it gets to be 35 .. 45 degrees C for periods of 1 to 10 days at a stretch. Turning off the a/c means the house heats very very quickly indeed (all that thermal soak of roof, walls, etc). Even well insulated houses still have a thermal flux and when everything around is damn hot, the heating up of the inside happens, for me, in a matter of about 5 minutes.
Turning my a/c off for 15 mins is just not worth it, because it then takes 2 hours of running to pull the temperature back again.
And remote control of my settings is just sinister.
Because electricity here is very expensive (about A$0.35 / kW-hr during summer), I've put in solar. Its expensive too, but it cuts my power bills in summer to about 1/3 of what they would otherwise be. I had to have a new import/export meter installed (at my cost) to support this.
When they want to install a smart meter, I'll be telling them to get stuffed. And doubly so if I have to pay for it also.
We have 'smart meters' on both electric and gas here.
And we in California have long (30 years, at least) had inverted-block rate structures where each tier of increasing usage is charged at a higher rate.
At present, among residential users only those of us with PV solar installations are actually on rate schedules that charge us (or, in the case of solar generation, credit us) at different rates at different times of day.
There have been various 'curtailable' tariffs available to commercial customers for a couple decades, involving some sort of incentive payment or rate in exchange for an agreed level of load reduction on request.
Every now and then some kind of study document turns up on twisting residential customers' arms to permit remote control of load reduction, and after suitable public outcry it's disavowed, but they're definitely thinking about it.
Wow. Smart meters cause cancer. It's official.
http://www.prlog.org/11978228-health-experts-caution-about-smart-meters.html
Thanks for that info Jud,
The Hydro Ottawa website says "A few times a summer, during times of peak electricity demand, your thermostat may be signaled to cycle your central air conditioner in 15 minute intervals. Your furnace fan will continue to run so you likely won’t notice a difference in temperature."
They are switching aircon off for 15 minutes at a time and hoping people won't notice a difference?
Yes Gareth - it is complete nonsense.
It's also important to note there is no kind of guarantee associated with their 'proposal'.
My assumption is they will turn off A/C when they see fit, and for as long as they see fit, with absolutely no means for the consumer to push back.