Bishop Hill A sudden realisation
Dec 13, 2013 Greens 
Detail from "The Mussel Gatherers" via antiqueprints.com. Click for link.
David Hone is Shell's very green climate change advisor, and his blog posts have been mentioned here in the past. Yesterday he posted a report on the Tyndall Centre's "Radical Emission Reduction" conference, an event that appears to have given him considerable pause for thought.
Given the academic reputation of the Tyndall Centre and of course the credentials of the Royal Society, I was hoping for a useful discussion on rapid deployment of technologies such as CCS, how the world might breathe new life into nuclear and other such topics, but this was far from the content of the sessions that I was able to attend. Rather, this was a room of catastrophists (as in “catastrophic global warming”), with the prevailing view, at least to my ears, that the issue could only be addressed by the complete transformation of the global energy and political systems, with the latter moving to one of state control and regulated consumerism. There would be no room for “ruthless individualism” in such a world. The posters that dotted the lecture theatre lobby area covered topics as diverse as vegan diets to an eventual return to low technology hunter-gatherer societies (but thankfully there was one CCS poster in the middle of all this).
Much to my surprise I was not really at an emission reduction conference (despite the label saying I was), but a political ideology conference.
Hones's sudden realisation that many of his fellow-travellers in the environmental movement are completely round the twist is rather comical and you can't help but wonder where he has been in the last twenty years. I wonder how he is going to break the news to his employers that they have been funding groups who want to take us back to the stone age and who would like nothing more than to wipe out the oil and gas industry in its entirety:
This was a room where there was a round of applause when one audience member asked how LNG and coal exporters in Australia might be “annihilated” following their (supposed) support for the repeal of the carbon tax in that country.
Read the whole thing, it's worth it.
And as an aside, let us remember that these lunatics are paid for by your taxes.
Reader Comments (107)
@ lapogus, that Mash item is a classic!
@ mike fowle, yes and I think Steve Jones has set up a bit of a hostage to fortune, with his remarks then...
Johanna's got it.
Think of Shell et. al's. participation (maybe sponsorship) of these groups along the lines of The Trust established by the senior Communists in Russia after their seizure of the revolution. the idea was to aggregate outsiders with varying views of the future the better to keep an eye on them.
Shell et. al. have suddenly realized that these people pose no threat to their interests nor are likely ever to be able to. So they are being dispensed with, maybe a bit more gently than were the Trust participants.
I have no doubt whatever that Hone (and Shell) knew full well what sort of folks they were associating with but were uncertain of their political potency.
The more I think about it, the more it seems pointless, indeed craven, to stop at urging a mere return to traditional hunter-gather societies. As tty so rightly points out, Stone Age man (and woman) was nasty enough and numerous enough to put an end to the Pleistocene megafauna – woolly mammoths, giant sloths, etc.
Surely, what is needed is a return to much earlier human life forms. What is wrong with Australopithecus afarensis, for example? Not only were they capable of no more than a crude form of bipedal gait, thus greatly restricting their range, they offer the critical additional advantage of not having discovered fire.
Am I alone in believing that it cannot be beyond the wit of modern man, with scientific marvels at his/her fingertips, to engineer such a simple kind of reverse evolutionary process? Surely not!
Your Grace wrote:
And as an aside, let us remember that these lunatics are paid for by your taxes.
Who are the worst lunatics? Those Greens or the politicians who squander our taxes by funding the Greens?
^^^ :-)
Thanks Mike. made I laugh.
Unfortunately, many big companies seem to be happy to kow-tow.
There's a typically unattributed, uncritical piece in the torygraph this morning reporting HRH's address to a meeting of his 'Chief Financial Officer Leadership Network ('founded by the Prince and set up by the Accounting for Sustainability (A4S) Project').
HRH asked 'Am I alone in wondering how it is in a society based entirely on an evidence-based approach to everything we do, and despite the overwhelming scientific evidence of climate change ... such evidence is disregarded and ignored?'
Companies attending included GlaxoSmithKline, Burberry and Network Rail.
Plus ca change. Our ability to ignore 'overwhelming evidence' perhaps explains why HRH will one day become King.
Shell have been and still are promoting conferences on moving to a low carbon (ooh that phrase annoys me) economy. They have poured £thousands and millions into the green comunists coffers. They have done it for profit not for charity. They use the green terrorists for their own ends.
The mouse is driving the elephant.
More like the mouse is rapeing the elephant.
There has been a flirtation with Godwin's Law on this thread.
Let's not beat about the bush!
Nazi Greens - An Inconvenient History
Global warming proof: Cairo has just had its first snowfall in a Century.......
I saw this at JoNova's earlier, and have just managed to skim through that 101 page "speaker abstracts" document. Suffice to say that I wish I hadn't - it would have made my blood boil on the best of days, but as it's grey overcast Friday the 13th....
I almost find myself agreeing with "population reduction" mob - but ONLY if that applied to every single one of the bastards behind lunatic symposiums such as this.
I suppose while we're at it these might be of interest.
The Greens - A Warning from History (1)
The Greens - A Warning from History (2)
(Thanks to stewgreen I can do links!)
Someone above reported a BBC radio report that Scottish Power had given up on an offshore windfarm slated for Argyllshire.
I caught a little of that at 11am on radio 5 in my car, but have heard nothing since from BBC or Sky.
Anyone know where a full report can be found, or was it unfounded?
Sean; it may be a while before much coal is displaced. I posted this (with source) on Unthreaded:
" This year, 75 000 MW of new coal-fired power generation came on stream and in the next five years another 450 000 MW of new coal-fired power generation is scheduled to come on stream. "
roger - this one?
Plan for giant offshore windfarm is shelved
Take your pick of the reasons why:-
roger: it's been discussed on unthreaded.
Christmas in two week time
Eastenders, The Queens Speech and Strictly Christmas Specials on the telly
Gridwatch will be keeping a close watch on the power surges on the dials.See how close we come to the lights going out.
When the lights do go out the Echo loons will have some explaining to do to a very angry public.
mikeh: Agreed that the global figures show coal coming into its own, making Sean's mooted Big Oil CAGW conspiracy against it ineffectual at best. All the same, it's much more in line with the evidence than the one we keep hearing about Big Oil funding sceptics. And let's not forget the secret payments of natural gas giant Chesapeake Energy into the Sierra Group because of its campaign against coal. It's not just Big Oil, they're all at it. Paul Collier I'm convinced is right that there is such a thing as a resource curse on Bottom Billion countries, when they find riches such as oil or diamonds or gold. There's too much money involved in such areas not to cause the bad side of human nature to come out. But coal remains the great hope for the cheapest possible energy for the world's poorest. That's why any conspiracy against it, for any reason, green or otherwise, must be particularly opposed. And let's hope shale begins to change to economics globally before long.
Given the announcement out of Brussels that Belgium has taken a giant step back into the stone age with the expansion of euthanasia to pre-adults, any suggestion the entire world take a similar step with population reduction and technology roll-back seems tame.
I strongly encourage anyone who believes in taking such a step go ahead and take it, and I will selflessly remain behind to document the effect your action has on the quality of life. Perhaps a Twitter #checking-out tag would be a good way to announce your demise.
Friday 13th and …
More good news.
ScottishPower Renewables abandons £5.4bn Tiree offshore wind farm plan.
http://www.business7.co.uk/business-news/energy/2013/12/13/scottishpower-renewables-abandons-5-4bn-tiree-offshore-wind-farm-plan-106408-24032695/
Comment sent to the Shell blog, it will be interesting to see if it is accepted.
"1. Tim Crome, 13th December 2013 6:14 pm Your comment is awaiting moderation.
I have also worked in the energy business for several decades and had an interest in the environment, and what drives changes in it, for almost as long. I would argue that with the current epansion of the worlds population and the clear correlation between welfare, energy availability and local population group, there is a moral obligation to ensure the availability of reliable cheap energy to as many people as possible. Increasing costs and reducing efficiency by enforcing CCS cannot be beneficial.
Furthermore there are clear signs that the climate is stable orcooling, not warming., following the end of the last ~30year warming period in 1998. Currently sunspots are moving towards a level not seen since the 1650s, i.e. the Little Ice Age. There are well documented correlations between sunspot activity and both increases and decreases in temperature, and a well documented theory explaining the link (ref. Svensmark). This is more than can be said for the purported link between manmade CO2 and warming.
What really concerns me, and should concern our media and politicians, is that we may well be heading rapidly towards a significantly cooler world, with all the implications of that on food production and general health, rather than experiencing a gradual warming that, if it were to occur, would have mostly beneficial consequences.
In the mean time those of us working in the energy business see our companies under valued and tarnished due to the supposed emmission of harmful CO2, which actually encorages plant growth, from the burning of hydrocarbon fuels."
The more I think about it, the more it seems pointless, indeed craven, to stop at urging a mere return to traditional hunter-gather societies. As tty so rightly points out, Stone Age man (and woman) was nasty enough and numerous enough to put an end to the Pleistocene megafauna – woolly mammoths, giant sloths, etc.
(...)
Dec 13, 2013 at 3:26 PM | Unregistered Commenteragouts
Not to mention the neanderthal humans...
Bish et al: it's "Hone", therefore "Hone's" not "Hones's" (which would be Hones' in any case).
Rad Rodent: Depop begins in 30 years, after peaking at ~8bn.; check out the Low Band spreadsheet page of the UN Population Survey, the only prediction ever close to accurate.
No comments approved on Hone's blog yet; my offering was:
CCS is a failed costly and pointless fantasy.
Intermittent carbon-free power sources are unusable attempts to turn back the clock by centuries.
Real-world evidence of CO2 “forcing” of climate is nowhere to be found.
You attended a “Lets you and him commit suicide” conference. Doh.
I doubt it will be approved.
I am not a conspiracy theorist regarding Big Oil and Big Green, just following the logic of who benefits from the success from Big Green; it is Big Oil But its not an original observation either. Donna LaFrambois has had simmer* observations for years. http://nofrakkingconsensus.blogspot.com/2010/06/bp-greenpeace-big-oil-jackpot.html
Regarding the expansion of coal vs. natural gas, that others have mentioned, the market price for gas is regional (because of the cost to cryogenic cool, transport and re-warm for intercontinental travel via ship) and in most places in the world it is $12-14 per million BTU. In the US it's a quarter of that. The glut of gas in North America is displacing coal and has shut down nuclear development. Coal still makes more sense economically, particularly in many developing nations, until shale gas resources are developed. Ironically these seem to be co-located with coal deposits. When the price of natural gas gets low enough that it makes economic sense to do so, I suspect many nations that are powered by coal will make the switch to natural gas.
[*?similar? BH]
Sean, again, helpful. I agree I guess about gas displacing coal in the end - though as Lomborg has pointed out, gas is always going to be best for pumping to homes, whereas it makes economic sense to use coal in big power plants where the real pollutants can be cleaned up. Useful combination.
I use the term conspiracy theory loosely and unpejoratively. Big Oil and Gas don't go around advertising these ulterior motives for supporting Big Green against coal, let's put it that way. That's why it was good the Chesapeake funding of the Sierra Group came out and created the scandal it did.
Dec 13, 2013 at 7:42 PM | Registered CommenterRichard Drake
Sean has it about right but what he is implying is that we need a do-able energy policy. It is absolutely true that fossil fuels are a finite resource what is not evident is just how finite. So an energy policy which focuses on secure nuclear base-load 5LTR perhaps) and leaves fossil fuels for transport so as to give our real scientists time to arrive at a better transport policy and fuel would seem within our grasp. Except there are too many other grasping barstewards in the way.
Yes I meant similar rather than simmer. Fat fingers plus spell check and poor final edit.
Lapogus and Alex Cull ...re M.A.S.H;
Channell "True Entertainment" is showing M.A.S.H. every weekday at the moment from c 1900hrs. 2 episodes most week nights although 4 episodes some nights.
Brings me back a long time. Talk about Rotflmho
PM
Through the shimmering mirage of future heat, a vision of huge herds of vegans eyeing each other nervously.
Green Sand and Philip Bratby -
Thanks for that!
Seems that a lot of offshore projects are being cancelled all of a sudden. Must be something in the water - or perhaps something we have posted!
"The industry has in the past provided massive funds for them but its hand has been badly bitten and is often denounced as evil. So it is not surprising that its approach to these zealots is carefully guarded. Much like the male spider mating with a female spider - one wrong move and it becomes food for her." --CharmingQuark
I'm reminded (as are others, above) of how German industrialists cozied up to Adolf (possibly under more duress than Shell). And male spiders end up as meals for females; it's just a matter of time, not how they move. Perhaps it's time for Shell et alii to stop dancing with the Devil.
I posted Hone's comments yesterday , under "difference of opinion".
you have to laugh or you would cry - to pick a couple that made me chuckle
DAY ONE, 10 December 2013
11.35-12.25 Understanding the policy context
Andrew Simms, NEF/Global Witness, ‘A Green New Deal: historical precedent and current potential for rapid economic adjustment’.
aka - the fall of the roman empire - leading to the dark ages in Europe.
DAY TWO, 11 December 2013
9.00-10.05 Governance for radical mitigation
Rebecca Willis, Green Alliance, ‘The ‘penny-drop moment’: Building political leadership for radical emission reduction’
aka - popular arcade & TV show - drop a penny in and gamble/hope/believe you will be the one to win lots of pennies in return, repeat until broke.
a laugh if these radical-mitigation strategies were proposed in the back room of a pub somewhere & of no consequence to the rest off us (even then they would expect a free bar).
The only "penny drop moment" I can see is Mr. Hone realising he's thrown his lot in with unhinged fanatics.
I have been reading the conference abstracts. The 1.01MB file is at radicalplanabstracts.pdf.
On pages 15 to 17 is ‘Responsibility for radical change in emission of greenhouse gases’
Page 16
Page 17
and in conclusion
All that matters is saving the planet. It is not about saving the planet for future generations, as we humans do not matter. It is not about the climate models being accurate - as they are supposed to about modelling cause (increasing greenhouse gas levels) with the effect (catastrophic anthropogenic global warming). And it is not science.
Whenever I hear of anybody talking of a return to a hunter- gatherer society I always get a vision of
the 170,000 inhabitants of Luton flocking out into the surrounding countryside to hunt and gather.
However, there are still plenty of flints lying around so we wouldn't go short of tools.
This was the link from today's Drudge report:
http://www.space.com/23934-weak-solar-cycle-space-weather.html
Johanna 10:43
Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant! Many can see what's going on but few can say it with such eloquence. Have you read much Christopher Hitchens?
And thanks for adding 'collocation' to my vocabulary but what does FGS mean?
Do CCS advocates have any brains at all? Can you imagine anything more stupid than removing oxygen from the atmosphere (along with carbon ie. CO2) would be beneficial to the planet's fauna (or flora for that matter)?
Seriously, these people must have zero lateral thinking ability.
sHx, yeah, ... I liked the bit about 'pre post-normal science'.
Most skeptics are stuck in the pre- post-normal phase.
Why thanks (blush). FGS = for God's sake.
Presumably FFS would be more widely understood.
sHx - I haven't read as much of Christopher Hitchens as I would like, but thoroughly recommend Mark Steyn's hilarious description of Mandela's funeral:
"I don’t want to be emotional but this is one of the greatest moments of my life,” declared Nelson Mandela upon meeting the Spice Girls in 1997. So I like to think he would have appreciated the livelier aspects of his funeral observances. The Prince of Wales, who was also present on that occasion in Johannesburg, agreed with Mandela on the significance of their summit with the girls: “It is the second-greatest moment in my life,” he said. “The greatest was when I met them the first time.” His Royal Highness and at least two Spice Girls (reports are unclear) attended this week’s service in Soweto, and I’m sure it was at least the third-greatest moment in all of their lives. Don’t ask me where the other Spice Girls were. It is a melancholy reflection that the Spice Girls’ delegation was half the size of Canada’s, which flew in no fewer than four Canadian prime ministers, which is rather more Canadian prime ministers than one normally needs to make the party go with a swing."
And it just gets better, and funnier:
Links have not been working too well lately, so just go to Steynonline for the rest. It's a hoot.
Dr. Angela Druckman, University of Surrey, ‘Low carbon fun: lifestyles in a low emissions society’.
Can't wait!
Joanna, thanks for that, well worth a read. Brilliant that the sign language interpreter has claimed a tendency for violent schizophrenia in mitigation. Here's the link for others:
Funeral Spice, Mark Steyn, December 13, 2013
UPDATE - sHx - I noticed that Steyn references Hitchens in his latest post on Obama's failed Presidency - Those Who Can't, Govern.
Martin
"Not to mention the neanderthal humans..."
.
Shhh...They'll be after an apology and compo next....
The Neanderthals have got their revenge: putting in Davey as Secretary of State.
johanna, lapogus: Thanks for the refs to the two Mark Steyn articles. While we're on Mandela, a more serious piece was FW de Klerk in The Times yesterday (paywalled). For me an incredibly valuable history lesson that gets Thatcher's opposition to sanctions during the 1980s spot on, unlike the later Tories who saw fit to apologise for it. The two main political deaths of 2013 brought together with real purpose.
DAMASCENE MOMENT ?
The constant theme throughout Hone's 300+ blogs has been the need for CCS and a robust Global Carbon Market.
Having to rub shoulders with all those 'hunter-gatherers' at the Royal Society meeting probably came as less of a shock than the realisation that his dreams are now at an end.
His opening remarks - "With Warsaw now a fading memory and the meagre outcome still cause for concern that there really isn't enough substance to build a robust agreement upon", says it all.
Copenhagen represented the start of the collapse, Warsaw is it's Waterloo. Hone recognises that this, coupled with the election of the Abbott government in his own country, spells the end of his dreams of Global Control through the Carbon Market.
We may have to wait a week for his next blog to see whether he 'recovers his composure' or decides to end his links with the ungrateful 'great unwashed'.
toad: I thought exactly the same on reading his first line. He's smart enough to recognise the game is up.
Richard Drake
Thanks for your confirmation.
toad / Richard - It is a bit of a coincidence that Shell have just recently appointed a new CEO. I suspect a strategy shift from on high and Hone is just looking after number one.
Maybe the new CEO is a bit more clued up on climate sensitivity and the hiatus/plateau, or he and Shell execs have noticed how little support the Greenpeace pirates got once the Russians decided to haul them in?
Cue Bob... ?