Bishop Hill The cost of climate
Oct 10, 2013 Climate: Parliament Energy: grid ;)
We could be doing so much more, Prime MinisterThis post came to me in an email this morning. It's from a correspondent who prefers to remain anonymous.
Some 7,800 people die during winter because they can’t afford to heat their homes properly, says fuel poverty expert Professor Christine Liddell of the University of Ulster. That works out at 65 deaths a day.
Hitler managed to kill 65,000 civilians in the UK during World War 2, an average of about 12,000 tragic deaths annually for each of the five and a half years of the war. So, ConLibLab's expensive energy policies are killing us at 2/3rds the rate Hitler managed. WW2's civilians can be said to have died in the struggle for our freedom. How can ConLibLab justify the lonely death of people in their own homes in peacetime, what noble cause are they dying for? Do Mr. Cameron & Mr. Clegg feel proud of their policies to make electricity more expensive? How does Mr. Cameron's father in law feel about pocketing a reported £1,000 a day from the windmills sited on his land? Does Mr. Clegg's lawyer wife feel working for one of Europe's largest installers of windfarms is socially acceptable? Does Mr. Milliband still feel comfortable with his record as a minister in bringing into law the 2008 Climate Change Act which set targets for the reduction of CO2 which underpin today's expensive energy bills?
Unfortunately, worse is to come. A recent Credit Suisse Bank study reports increased UK energy cost and states, "The bank blamed the roughly fivefold rise in the government's new tax on carbon-dioxide emitting power generation over the next seven years", and went on to forecast that within three years rising UK electricity prices will be almost double German prices, which are currently twice as high as electricity costs in the US. How many more will be killed by unnecessary, tax-driven energy increases?
As a financially challenged OAP I cannot quite reach your tip jar. However, I wish you all the best in your important work, for which I thank you. If you make reference to this, please describe me as a "correspondent"
Reader Comments (74)
"PS Jeff Randall 19.00 hours Sky news has a special programme on energy prices.
Will he reveal the corrupt politicians?"
Well Jeff Randall has spoken and a more milk-sop pathetic set of interviews and opinions I have yet to see. The lid is being firmly shut on this Pandora's box lest we the natives should get restless. It was the big six wot dunnit -OK?
We truly are witnessing a new form of consensus politics of the centre ground. UKIP were no doubt silenced.
Yet why does it bring to mind Stalin, Hitler, Il Duce et al.
...So, ConLibLab's expensive energy policies are killing us at 2/3rds the rate Hitler managed. ...
Minor point, but there was about 3/4 of our current population in 1945 Britain. I wonder if they've corrected for that?
Julian Flood (Oct 10, 2013 at 7:47 PM): thank you. You have shown us - well... okay, told us - what we should be doing. It is not enough to sit at our 'pooters whinging to folk who agree with us; we have to get out and about, talk with those with whom we can argue, to attempt to enlighten them to what is going on. We have to shake folk up to persuade them to shed the habits that are killing this country. This may be a small island off the continent, but it is a small island that has shaped the world, and we cannot abandon the world to forces that are alien to the British philosophy that the world has generally embraced with gusto by allowing the country to expire due to apathy.
From official house of commons document
from Paul Homewood's new blog postingWhy have gas prices risen more sharply than electricity ? Is it solar gas, wind gas or biofuel gas that's causing the problem ??
eSmiff
"Is it solar gas, wind gas or biofuel gas that's causing the problem ??"
All! Logically, every time a supply element is subsidised it raises the price of the whole.
Bish: The precise number of people who die in the winter from fuel poverty isn't known, but let's assume it is in the thousands. Poverty has many causes and the INCREASE in energy prices due to fear of climate change consumes only a small fraction of the money those in poverty spend to stay alive. Only that small fraction of the problem can be blamed on the hysteria surrounding climate change.
Unless you wish to be as irresponsible as James Hansen (drawing a parallel between coal trains and the Holocaust), I hope you do something to correct the misunderstanding create by this post.
Various figures have been given by Sky today for the percentage of our energy bills which is the result of green policies, Eamon Holmes got 9-10% from a kicking and screaming Fallon and Jeff Scandal told us it was only 5%. However both figures under estimate the true amount. Today the cost of transporting energy to the customer was given as anywhere between 10% and 23% but as far as electricity is concerned a large part of that is to adapt the grid to the vagaries of wind turbines (in other words more green policy increases).
Frank
We are so far only in the foothills of green costs being added to our energy bills, if things continue as they are then I would not like increased winter deaths on my conscience, how about you?
I've been following this debate in various forums, but I've found it difficult to understand how price controls would help.
Even without any green tariffs, energy companies are constrained by wholesale fuel prices and make profits around 5%. This is barely enough to cover depreciation, and certainly not enough to encourage investment in new storage and generating capacity.
Price controls would simply drive large parts of the industry into loss, and make the longer term situation worse.
Surely the solution to fuel poverty is to subsidise those in need from the social services budget, rather than destroy the energy industry in a doomed attempt to drive down prices?
entropic man
Why are prices going up so quickly ? Monbiot says there is too much oil.
esmiff
I dont see the logic of that. Explain, please.
entropic man
Sorry. I'll explain
Why are prices going up so quickly ? It isn't a shortage of oil.
In fact, green sand has part of the answer. If you subsidise one fuel, you will raise the price of all fuel, That is another reason the oil industry has been pushing global warming since the mid to late '90s.
They are also being allowed to do what they want. In the past, the US government kept the price of oil down by barking at the Saudis. That stopped with Bush .
The role of CO2 as a contributor to climate change is entirely disproved.
Man-made climate change has been disproved.
Yet still Governments sail on fighting phantom climate change windmills with heavily subsidised wind turbines.
The concern for people's welfare has been replaced with concern for private profit,
and to hell with the people.
Nothing changes.
entropic man
If I understand the situation correctly, the 5% profit relates to the retail arms of the businesses not the total company. For instance you have Centrica selling gas to British Gas, Centrica is the wholesaler but the whole transaction is in house. Centrica makes huge profits ^.^
Dung
Numbers, please.
Any comment on this?
"Climate-sceptic newspapers are conspiring with energy firms in a campaign of misinformation on bills, says the former head of the government economic service, Lord Stern."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24494893
Johanna: ‘Surely the point is that this is Dickensian stuff – that people in this day and age have to huddle together, heavily clothed in just one room – just to stay warm’.
But it doesn’t have to be that way, although it’s wise to recognise some of the fundamental realities of the aging process. For example, there is an undeniable correlation between elderly death and immobility.
I have always been a strong believer in getting the elderly to their feet as early as possible in the day. Very young children are naturally active in the early hours, but at the other end of life the elderly often show a reluctance to spring out of bed in the morning – no doubt because of the infirmities of age, but also, I think, because there’s less to look forward to at that age.
That lack can be filled with community activities, and a brisk shuffle to the local library or Arndale Centre can ward off the winter chills, with the reward of a biscuit and a cup of tea in warm surroundings to act as an incentive.
Another strategy is to become involved in the doings of younger people, to maintain an optimistic, forward-looking attitude. If possible, attach yourself to a powerful younger person, as in the example of the elderly gent in the photograph above. He’s looking pretty chipper, and I’m sure it’s because he’s absorbing some of the radiance of his youthful companion.
So there are some simple ways and means of achieving warmth in a cold climate, even in advanced age. The key is a positive attitude.
entropic man
So when people talk innocently about the wholesale price of gas going up they are actually saying that Centrica have increased their prices.
True story, but a light hearted reply to Brendan H
Cautionary tale.
I am 58 and last year (like you recommended) decided too get out the house and meet some young people on a songwriting course. In the 2nd week I sat down beside the oldest person in the class, a woman whose music I loved. She first propositioned me then developed a massive crush on me. I melted. She is not only the most beautiful woman I have ever seen, she is one of the geekiest and we worked together etc. We bonded.
I contacted her on facebook. She was only 21. I literally couldn't take it in. I had a full blown nervous breakdown. That hurt.
I also met some 17/18 year olds on a video course just after. Brilliant kids, but don't want to hang out with 17 year olds any more than be in love with a 21 year old. Got on great with one of their fathers ! Met him recently.
Don't feel guilty about anything. Thought she was 28-30.
Dung
You are using the wrong parameter. Raw numbers make good grist for the political or media mill, but tell you little about the business.
What were these figures as a % of turnover or as a return on capital? Remember you need 5% just to counter depreciation. To give a dividend and make enough money to invest in new plant you really need twice that.
esmiff
Better ask the government to reduce their gas, oil and coal subsidies.
Bishop, your correspondent doesn't indicate how many excess deaths there were during the war as a result of cold and poverty. Does he think there were none until the recent government programs perhaps? If he is concerned about such deaths he will doubtless support efforts to insulate houses to make them cheaper to heat. He is probably unaware that part of his energy bills go towards that goal and that the amount of his bills that goes towards renewables etc is less than the VAT. But you know that, so I guess you will have put his mind at rest.
Billy: ‘Brilliant kids, but don’t want to hang out with 17 year olds any more than be in love with a 21 year old’.
After a while you start talking like them, and lose all dignity.
The tragedy of age is that you can never go back for a second run.
Perhaps the 50% increase in the wholesale gas price over the last 5 years may also be a factor?
Or the 87% increase in energy firms profits from 2 to 3.5 billion, over the same period? This accounts for 240 quid of an average bill of 1,267.
The "green" costs amount to 122, and include:
47 on energy saving measures for low income households
11 on warm home discounts for pensioners
3 on smart meters
(Which of these will help cut pensioner death rates when Osborne cuts them, as he is currently manoeuvring to do?)
The rest of the "green" measures are involved with long term investment in essentially free energy sources, which are not affected by the wholesale gas price, which are calculated to reduce the average energy bill by around 12% by the year 2020.
Sorry for introducing some facts into your 2 minute hate.
Facts from DECC.
Excuse me if I now leave this site, and do not pay the slightest attention to the abuse. It does nothing for me. Carry on, Bishop!
One often-unsaid aspect of the public discussion on whether human-induced climate change is real, is ideology. Several months ago, the University of Kentucky hosted of forum on climate change with three excellent speakers who were all self-described conservatives. Liberals reported how they better understand that there are thoughtful conservative perspectives on, and solutions to, climate change, thus allowing for a broadened public discussion. In turn, conservatives in attendance learned the same thing. You can watch the recording of this event at http://bit.ly/135gvNa. The starting time for each speaker is noted at this page, so you can listen to the speakers of greatest interest to you.
@ Brendan H:
"I have always been a strong believer in getting the elderly to their feet as early as possible in the day. Very young children are naturally active in the early hours, but at the other end of life the elderly often show a reluctance to spring out of bed in the morning – no doubt because of the infirmities of age, but also, I think, because there’s less to look forward to at that age.
That lack can be filled with community activities, and a brisk shuffle to the local library or Arndale Centre can ward off the winter chills, with the reward of a biscuit and a cup of tea in warm surroundings to act as an incentive."
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I really hope this is meant as satire.
I can tell you this for nothing - anyone who tried to haul me out of bed on a cold morning so that I wouldn't be cold (shades of being woken up for a sleeping pill in hospital!) would find the experience unforgettable. Oh, yes indeedy.
I am not yet elderly, but admit to being over 50, and - guess what - the body warming system isn't quite what it was even now. Decent home heating for people older than me is absolutely critical - putting on a jumper or thick socks just doesn't work for them. But, I suppose they could go for a jog around the block when it gets really cold.