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« RealClimate's take on the year | Main | Disgruntled science bureaucrats »
Friday
Nov192010

On Nature's data policy

Eli Rabett has challenged my post about Phil Jones claim that publication of his data was prevented by confidentiality agreements. I said that Nature requires authors to make their data available on request.

Eli's says that Nature only instituted this policy in 1997, and that previously the policy was only that:

Nature requests authors to deposit sequence and x-ray crystallography data in the databases that exist for this purpose.

If so then I stand corrected. I'm not sure that it changes anything very much though, because, as we know, CRU have been unable to produce any agreements that would prevent publication, we know that release would have been required under both FOI and EIR, and we know that they distributed data quite happily to scientists who they saw as onside.

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Reader Comments (173)

BBD

"I -think- you may be making an interesting and valid point, but...?"

Pick a sentence that you think contains a coherent meme or fallacy or idea and ask and work from there.

Nov 20, 2010 at 5:40 PM | Unregistered CommenterSteve2

Apologies for the ignorance, but since we are touching on rising temperatures in China, does anyone know of any studies that examine aerosol forcings in China, specifically brown/black carbon?

Aerosol BC heats the atmosphere around it and causes surface temperatures to rise, as other studies have shown, eg:

Ramanathan, V., M.V. Ramana, G. Roberts, D. Kim, C. Corrigan, C. Chung, and D. Winker, 2007. Warming trends in Asia amplified by brown cloud solar absorption. Nature, 448, 575-578.

Ramanathan et al. claim +0.25K per decade for Indian Ocean and Asia as a direct result of 'brown cloud aerosol forcing.

Note, brown clouds were previously supposed to cool the surface.

Nov 20, 2010 at 5:45 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

@Steve2:

When - No One Really Thinks That - you can be sure clever people are trying to find a way to subvert the idiocy of layman knowing that No One Really Thinks That, and so while they finalise their proof, make you be sure of it, even if they don't know it ;-)

Nov 20, 2010 at 6:02 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

Pick a sentence that you think contains a coherent meme or fallacy or idea and ask and work from there.

Did you mean 'incoherent'?

Nov 20, 2010 at 6:03 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

Eh?

Two block quotes don't work try again

Nov 20, 2010 at 6:09 PM | Unregistered CommenterSteve2

Gee. BBD is obviously blanking me.

I am an obvious chav intevention on this forum and I know this annoys Guardian readers who think they speak for the workers but are actually fascists.

BBD claims to be a scientist but can't pick out the grist of my points.

I am reading Daniel S. Greenberg on the state of US science and I think I see the whiny self pitying claims of science in the UK. BBD you said you are a scientist didn't you?

Nov 20, 2010 at 6:15 PM | Unregistered CommenterSteve2

Steve2

Blanking you? What the hell are you talking about?

And no, Steve, I have given no indication as to my profession here. You may suppose as you please.

I will say, however, that I don't read the Graun.

You were offering to clarify your point. Are you going to do so, or just shout at me?

Nov 20, 2010 at 6:32 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

Or perhaps you don't have a point? Hence this stuff:

I am an obvious chav intevention on this forum and I know this annoys Guardian readers who think they speak for the workers but are actually fascists.

You asked me to pick a sentence that we could discuss - blockquote 1. Blockquote 2 notes ambiguity in your response.

And its 'gist' not 'grist'.

Nov 20, 2010 at 6:36 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

And Steve, I really don't like being called a fascist. Let's just stop that particular kind of name-calling right now, shall we?

Nov 20, 2010 at 6:37 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

Steve2 :"grist of my points." Gist?

Nov 20, 2010 at 6:40 PM | Unregistered Commenterj ferguson

BBD

"You were offering to clarify your point. Are you going to do so, or just shout at me?"

Now I know you have not read me. Points were never shouted by me (capitlised?)

Or asked/yearning for your understanding.

Quite the opposite actually.

While it lasted...

I don't care now.

Nov 20, 2010 at 6:41 PM | Unregistered CommenterSteve2

j ferguson

"smell" of my points?

Nov 20, 2010 at 6:43 PM | Unregistered CommenterSteve2

Steve2

Grow up.

Nov 20, 2010 at 6:46 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

I am 6 Foot 4 inches tall

Nov 20, 2010 at 6:49 PM | Unregistered CommenterSteve2

Oh dear

Nov 20, 2010 at 6:53 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

BBD

I like this blog, I like the HSI book, and I like the freedom and management by the owner Bish who can strike comments at will as he should -

but I dont like infantile people who promise more then they can deliver.

Pal, that is you.

You still have not chosen a sentence of mine to argue upon...

you rather hector me.

why?

Nov 20, 2010 at 6:56 PM | Unregistered CommenterSteve2

Steve2

Are you sure you're not phinnie?

Nov 20, 2010 at 6:56 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

Dear Bish,
Eli Rabett has been telling us porkies.

To be more precise, he has fallen for temptation and indulged in a bit of sleight-of-hand.

More details coming soon.

Nov 20, 2010 at 6:57 PM | Unregistered CommenterShub

I chose a sentence umpteen comments back - see the first of the two blockquotes you objected to.

Why don't you calm down and explain the point you were trying to make in that sentence as you originally offered to do?

Nov 20, 2010 at 6:58 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

Shub - Teaser! Out with it man!

Nov 20, 2010 at 6:59 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

"I chose a sentence umpteen comments back"

but you can't quote it back now and save us (and me) the work - why exactly?

You are negative information

You are a fraud

Nov 20, 2010 at 7:03 PM | Unregistered CommenterSteve2

Steve2

Just indulge me a moment. To make up for calling me infantile, and bizarrely, accusing me of 'promising more than I can deliver'.

You say you liked THSI. So did I.

Open your copy at page 169. There was something rather 'odd' about about the archived PC1 for MBH1999. What was it?

Nov 20, 2010 at 7:05 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

So sorry to inconvenience you:

When - No One Really Thinks That - you can be sure clever people are trying to find a way to subvert the idiocy of layman knowing that No One Really Thinks That, and so while they finalise their proof, make you be sure of it, even if they don't know it ;-)

Nov 20, 2010 at 7:07 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

Steve2
Any chance that English - the flavour tossed around here - isn't your first or second language? If that's the case, it might explain why some of the things you've written here aren't being understood.

Nov 20, 2010 at 7:08 PM | Unregistered Commenterj ferguson

j ferguson

I am sensitive to that possibility too. Which is why I asked Steve2 if he would clarify his earlier comment.

Then he went off on one.

Nov 20, 2010 at 7:11 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

"Just indulge me a moment. To make up for calling me infantile, and bizarrely, accusing me of 'promising more than I can deliver'."

Double Eh?

WRT the page you asked:

"In fact there was another remarkable aspect to this particular
statistical oddity. It turned out that when Mann had archived results
from his second hockey stick paper (MBH99) the PC algorithm had
been flipping again: the final PCI had ended up with a twentieth
century downtick, so it was actually upside-down. Mann had therefore
had to flip it back again for presentation purposes."

We all have it on computer

What are trying to do trick me?

Fuck me...

Nov 20, 2010 at 7:13 PM | Unregistered CommenterSteve2

No to both ;-)

Just trying to work out if you are for real or not.

Nov 20, 2010 at 7:15 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

You are phinnie, aren't you?

Nov 20, 2010 at 7:16 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

"Steve2
Any chance that English - the flavour tossed around here - isn't your first or second language? If that's the case, it might explain why some of the things you've written here aren't being understood."

I will still be a "denier" but 'kin hell the demographic around here just gone way down hill in my mind ;-)

fergo - try pointing out summat and then I will try dealing with it

If you just don't like me and my likes you know the score when you try and come to my house ;- )

Nov 20, 2010 at 7:21 PM | Unregistered CommenterSteve2

Shub, thank you for your earlier response

"Eli has been telling porkies"

Is that kosher?

Nov 20, 2010 at 7:21 PM | Unregistered Commentergolf charley

BBD
Don P has a theory for comment trails like the one Steve2 is leaving. He seems incoherent to me, but then I don't know this stuff cold, so I can't be certain.

Nov 20, 2010 at 7:21 PM | Unregistered Commenterj ferguson

BBD - You have bailed out. Admit you can't deal with me you coward

Nov 20, 2010 at 7:22 PM | Unregistered CommenterSteve2

"He seems incoherent to me, but then I don't know this stuff cold,"

Oh God , J ferguson, are you living with your mother?

Nov 20, 2010 at 7:31 PM | Unregistered CommenterSteve2

Cannot seem to get anything posted. Locked out.

Nov 20, 2010 at 7:37 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

Ah. Back in business.

That was very, very odd. Locked out for 15 minutes, just after this:

BBD - You have bailed out. Admit you can't deal with me you coward

Bish, it might be worth making sure that the servers are clean and secure.

Nov 20, 2010 at 7:40 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

j ferguson

I think you just got threatened by our mutual pal, then I got locked out of the blog comments. That's not on. Big style.

Nov 20, 2010 at 7:42 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

BBD

I can't get my head around contentless posters like you.

We can be sure you have a point - I am sure you may be annoyed by Steve2 - but it is all implication.

No effort is used in saying...

As I said above - BBD claims to be scientistist (no evidence of that) and all BBD does is respond by innuendo and diversion and smear. Where have I heard that technique before?

BBD is just a fraud who stacks shelves in Tesco

Nov 20, 2010 at 7:50 PM | Unregistered CommenterSteve2

Chaps

I have been away from the PC for a while. Can you all please try to keep a lid on things.

Nov 20, 2010 at 7:52 PM | Registered CommenterBishop Hill

Bish

Apologies. I have no doubt you will have read back through this exchange, and will have formed your opinion of its dynamics.

Something very peculiar happened - I literally got locked out and could not reply. If you put me on hold, fair enough. If you did not, then I am rather concerned that the server hosting this blog may have been hacked.

Nov 20, 2010 at 8:09 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

If you did not, then I am rather concerned that the server hosting this blog may have been hacked.

I suspect that it may be the case, Bishop. I have not posted much because I have little interest in the interactions of the last few days, but on two times I tried to post, I had problems. A couple days ago, the server was dead, with a cryptic note from Squarespace. I think you, at least, are due and explanation.

As for some of the characters posting here to live out their Walter Mitty fantasies, go take your meds. You really need them. You are actually very tiresome.

My advice to the rest of you is to ignore them.

Nov 20, 2010 at 8:30 PM | Unregistered CommenterDon Pablo de la Sierra

@Don pablo - can't be arsed with the rest of the bullshit mitty name


"Walter Mitty fantasies"

How is anyone doing this by just commenting on this page - explain

Nov 20, 2010 at 8:40 PM | Unregistered CommenterSteve2

Crikey guys,

this is going to sound really naff but you are all great in yr own ways. All sui generis even Zed.

BBD can't you see that Steve2 is taking the mickey, etc.?.don't rise to the bait and he won't keep doing it....he was attacking the flab in your writing and frankly ALL of us are guilty of that at one time or another. Steve2 - sometimes you are v clever especially as your approach is off kilter...provocation leads to thought and good onit. consider that a lot of spice deadens the taste buds. I'm fairly sure a large majority of us are guilty of being annoying on or off the blog...so little bumps should not end up in big brawls which is less fun n'est ce pas?

Nov 20, 2010 at 8:58 PM | Unregistered Commenterconiston

coniston

Very fair.

Nov 20, 2010 at 9:07 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

BBD, golf

I've emailed the Bish, a gist (not grist) of my preliminary findings. Things should become clearer soon. Please be patient.

Nov 20, 2010 at 9:12 PM | Unregistered CommenterShub

Shub,
we wait with 'bated (not baited) breath.

Nov 20, 2010 at 9:15 PM | Unregistered Commenterj ferguson

Don P

I think Squarespace had a denial of service attack five or six days ago. Perhaps something to do with that?

Nov 20, 2010 at 9:28 PM | Registered CommenterBishop Hill

Shub, as per j ferguson...

Bish

I am really relieved that Don Pablo checked in on this. Otherwise I might seem like a paranoid looney.

A DOS a few days ago wouldn't exactly account for what happened to me tonight unless 'they' did it again just now.

Worth looking in to. Really.

Nov 20, 2010 at 9:35 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

Have you cleared your cache?

One reader also said a reboot solved the commenting problem.

Nov 20, 2010 at 9:47 PM | Registered CommenterBishop Hill

Yup.

Then switched browsers. Same thing.

And that got me thinking.

I re-booted and then got back in. Could be just a coincidence, but it was very odd.

Nov 20, 2010 at 9:52 PM | Unregistered CommenterBBD

If the Empire strikes back by hacks on skeptic sites, we will not be worrying bout occasional messages wandering off.
My bet is any delays were due completely to things related to network and server mgt. and not to some AGW true believer testing out their new found death star.
Chill out.

Nov 20, 2010 at 10:36 PM | Unregistered Commenterhunter

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