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Lots of Zed comments and responses deleted. Unthreaded ain't the place for food fights.

Nov 16, 2011 at 9:10 PM | Registered CommenterBishop Hill

Green Sand.

This is just like the aluminium plant on Anglesey. Anglesey Aluminium Metal Ltd, shut down on 30 September 2009, was a joint venture between Rio Tinto Group and Kaiser Aluminium. Its aluminium smelter, located on the outskirts of Holyhead, was one of the largest employers in North Wales, with 540 staff members, and began to produce aluminium in 1971. Until recently it produced up to 142,000 tonnes of aluminium every year and was the biggest single user of electricity (255 MW) in the United Kingdom. The plant received most of its electricity from Wylfa nuclear power station 15 miles away. AA was used as a base load for Wylfa and saved the grid the cost of keeping a power station on standby. The power contract terminated in 2009, and the aluminium smelting operation was shut down as no new contract was negotiated. The wind turbines on Anglesey are pretty useless, except to macerate birds.

Nov 16, 2011 at 7:50 PM | Unregistered CommenterPhillip Bratby

Sorry Martin, I can't take you seriously. You forget that water vapour is a far more potent greenhouse gas than CO2 as it traps radiation over a much broader spectrum of IR frequencies. You'll need to fill the gap with CO2 and water vapour if you want to reradiate half the IR. I suspect you'll have to heat the windows otherwise you'll get a lot of cloud formation, which your good lady wife might object to. However, I think I may have solved your problem. You could put some solar panels over the windows and use the electricity you generate to heat the windows and prevent that cloud formation. ;-)
You might first want to run this by one of your climate change experts just in case my physics has gone a bit rusty.

Nov 16, 2011 at 7:14 PM | Unregistered CommenterPhillip Bratby

Another, probably 1000+ jobs exported!

"Rio Tinto To Close Aluminium Smelter Due To Chris Huhne's Green Energy Legislation"

"Rio Tinto Alcan to close Lynemouth aluminium smelter. "It is clear the smelter is no longer a sustainable business because its energy costs are increasing significantly, due largely to emerging legislation."

Nov 16, 2011 at 7:13 PM | Unregistered CommenterGreen Sand

Details of "The Climate Change Act Reconsidered" can be found at
Tickets are in short supply, so act quickly if you want to attend.

Nov 16, 2011 at 6:44 PM | Unregistered CommenterPhillip Bratby


Thank you for the helpful comments. However I sense that my contribution was not taken completely seriously.

Double glazing advertising emphasises the greater thermal resistance of double glazing . It never mentions that a large part of the heat lost from a window is in the form of infra-red radiation, rather than conduction through the glass, and this loss is about the same for single glazing or for double glazing.

So even if the insulation provided by the double glazing were perfect (infinite thermal resistance), you'd still be loosing much of the heat that you'd loose via the window with single glazing.

However, if the argon were replaced by CO2, half of the heat being lost to the outside, via IR passing through the window, would be re-radiated back into the room - a very significant reduction in the total heat loss via the window. This is because of CO2's ability to trap radiation.

If your knowledge of physics is insufficient to understand what I am saying, please ask any expert on global warming climate change to explain it to you.

Nov 16, 2011 at 6:30 PM | Unregistered CommenterMartin A

Following on from Roger Longstaff's post, please sign the petition at

Nov 16, 2011 at 5:59 PM | Unregistered CommenterPhillip Bratby

There is a lovely little post over on WUWT that I thought worth sharing:

Alternative energy only makes sense if you truly believe that carbon dioxide is the devil incarnate. If it’s not, there is no point whatsover for wind or solar.

It all comes down to E=MC2 or for non-nuclear, E=MV2. To get enough “E” you either need lots of “M” (mass”) or very high “V” (velocity). Wind has very little mass and thus must move very, very fast to produce much “E”. Or in practical terms you must litter vast areas of the landscape with windmills. Solar is fine with E=MC2 but the problem is the nuclear reaction is 92 million miles away and once again enormous areas of land must be covered with solar panels to produce enough “E”. The chemical reactions that release energy are far more efficient and of course, that’s why we’ve burned carbon based fuels for thousands of years.

Solar has about 1/10th the energy density of wood, wood is about half as energy dense as coal,coal about 1/2 that of gasoline and of course the really winner is nuclear power which is around 2 million times as energy powerful as gasoline.

Those who advocate wind or solar simply have the laws of physics against them. They can’t break those laws without destroying the landscape and/or the economy.

Nov 16, 2011 at 5:36 PM | Unregistered CommenterRoger Longstaff

Top scientist says FoI laws being used to intimidate

Sir Paul Nurse, the President of the Royal Society enlightens us!

"I never anticipated this. I thought FOI was a way of exposing when some politician was being slippery. It never occurred to me that it could be used as a tool for intimidation, which I think it is," he said.

Nov 16, 2011 at 12:32 PM | Unregistered CommenterLord Beaverbrook

Martin A

Please keep up.

If your double glazing units were filled with CO2 instead of Argon then you would have to have your local county environmental officer pay a regular visit to ensure that there was no damage as any escape would melt the ice caps and plunge the Maldives under meters of water. Haven't you read the clause in your house insurance policy?

(/sarc.... with likely uncertainty)

Nov 16, 2011 at 10:50 AM | Unregistered CommenterLord Beaverbrook

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