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"There's to be a programme on R4, Monday I think, about the imminent disappearance of New York under the waves."

See for details of "The Drowning City", to be broadcast on R4, Monday 18th at 8pm. From the on-website citation of "Hurricane" Sandy it sounds as if it will be AGW-induced disaster all the way ...

Feb 14, 2013 at 12:32 PM | Unregistered CommenterCassio

The Geological Society claims about change are discussed here:

Feb 14, 2013 at 12:10 PM | Registered CommenterPhillip Bratby


"building a wall around Manhattan"

They definitely should. It will be a wonderful monument to stupidity.

Feb 14, 2013 at 11:33 AM | Registered Commenterjamesp


“I thought I detected some awkwardness in the CO2 debate”

Same here. It was as if they had to incorporate some instructions into their answers. Maybe my imagination, too, but their previously fluid answers seemed to get a bit ragged at that point.

Shame Bragg didn’t know that we have had lots of ice and CO2 at the same time...

Feb 14, 2013 at 11:30 AM | Registered Commenterjamesp

I have just been listening to the excellent radio programme “In our times”. Three geologists discussed the history of our planet’s ice ages.

The thought had occurred to me that geologists must be taught climate science as students and then as practising scientists they would accept the developments in climate theory as being the genuine output of peer review.

Melvyn Bragg pressed them on the role of carbon dioxide and I listened with great interest. It seems that the gas is the driver of major temperature changes. One presenter stated that 350ppm was a threshold and the human race is now in danger of changing our climate. Another presenter pointed out that in the past, CO2 concentrations have been up to 12 times higher. The possibility that atmospheric CO2 concentrations may well lag temperature changes was not mentioned.

It seems to me that geologists have had to shoehorn current climate theory into geology and I guess that there are probably true believers and possibly (maybe older) sceptics. I thought I detected some awkwardness in the CO2 debate but that may be my imagination. Would geologists care to comment?

Feb 14, 2013 at 10:45 AM | Unregistered CommenterSchrodinger's Cat


Not sure the Bikers are quite right, but they probably haven’t kept hens. Hens take an occasional break to moult and grow new feathers (they can’t lay at the same time) but that’s cyclical rather than seasonal. They need daylight, but ours lay through the winter OK.

Feb 14, 2013 at 10:38 AM | Registered Commenterjamesp

lapogus, rhoda

It was also encouraging to hear people with a proper grasp of timescales pointing out that there was no Arctic ice 2 million years ago and no Antartic ice (forest in fact) 50 million years ago. And that we are technically still in an Ice Age and that it has been MUCH warmer and for long periods. Shame they blamed CO2 for all of it, but they probably had to say that to be allowed on!

Feb 14, 2013 at 10:31 AM | Registered Commenterjamesp

There's to be a programme on R4, Monday I think, about the imminent disappearance of New York under the waves. The trailer said something about building a wall around Manhattan.

I wonder if there will be any analysis of the likelihood of this actually coming to pass.

Feb 14, 2013 at 10:16 AM | Unregistered CommenterBrent Hargreaves

Helen Boaden promoted to Director of BBC Radio. Another ex-Labour Minister also brought in to maintain the left-wing bias.

Feb 14, 2013 at 10:09 AM | Registered CommenterPhillip Bratby

Rhoda - yes, interesting that the BBC aired this discussion which at least uncovered a few geological hometruths e.g. even this current interglacial is still technically in an ice-house Earth period, and much cooler than the planet usually is. I liked what Richard Corfield said near the end the most - e.g. Greenhouse Earth is the natural state, and 85% of geological time has been much warmer than now, CO2 levels were once 6 times higher than now, and were 12 times higher than now before that...

But none of the geologists seemed prepared to really question whether CO2's role in the modern age of AGW has been even moderately exaggerated, or whether the consensus modeller's estimates for climate sensitivity are anywhere near correct. It was also disappointing that they gave the impression that CO2 was the key determinant in regulating the planet's temperatures, no mention of H2O at all. The programme has not appeared on the i-player yet, but should do here:

In Our Time, "Ice Ages" - Melvin Bragg, BBC Radio 4, Feb 14th 2013

Feb 14, 2013 at 10:02 AM | Registered Commenterlapogus

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