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@Ross H

I thought the Channel 4 thing was quite heartening - greens squabbling amongst themselves looks like a good start on the road to self-destruction.

I found it rather amusing that they seemed to be saying "OK, we were wrong about nuclear, and yes, we were wrong about GM, but - trust us - we're really, really sure we're right about global warming."

I thought Lynas came across as a total prat: when he was recounting his days of "direct action", he sounded like he was talking about jolly japes during freshers week at uni. I think he even described it as "fun" at one point.

Nov 5, 2010 at 3:03 PM | Unregistered CommenterTurning Tide

@ Messenger

I too watched the C4 Program last night. I was very disappointed. It felt very self indulgent and all people there seemed to simply hide behind the IPCC science. No questioning at all. The New Environmentalists I found to be confused and hypocritical. The idea that they once were anti-science and now they're pro-science so therefore correct, I feel was missing the point. They simply don't seem to sit back and question what is presented to them when a problem arises. Their history seems to tell them “Think before you act” but that message still doesn’t seem to have gotten through. But what would I know? :)

Nov 5, 2010 at 11:59 AM | Unregistered CommenterRoss H

"a sexy and fresh approach as opposed to the way young people feel they are preached to by other more 'grown-up' charities."

Bit of clubbing anyone? Walk there and get in for free!

Nov 5, 2010 at 11:52 AM | Unregistered CommenterRoss H


I too watched part of the first program and then all of the following debate.
The way it was billed led me to believe that there was going to be some serious discussion but all I saw was alot of infighting amongst the green movements. Seems as though there is a movement of new environmentalists who do not agree with the way that Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth have handled themselves over recent years.
Monbiot was on form coming over as this wide eyed anti capatalist scare mongering journalist, really had a bad pr day.

Overall gave the impression that there was nothing to discuss about global warming only the ways of combatting it. If future programs follow the same lead I would think that viewing figures will fall off so rapidly that the series will not be finished.

Nov 5, 2010 at 9:42 AM | Unregistered CommenterLord Beaverbrook

Did anyone watch the Channel 4 programme last night on Greens changing their minds? I watched the first hour and it seemed entirely accepting of CC or GW which would be necessarily be catastrophic. They even spoke about Himalayan glaciers and Greenland disasters. The change of mind over nuclear power and GM foods seems to be recognition by a couple of previously activist people who have seen those subjects as arguments that the environmentalists will lose. Sceptics got a mention in the intro and I spotted Steve McIntyre's name on the opening shots, but apart from that- nothing.

Nov 5, 2010 at 9:12 AM | Unregistered CommenterMessenger

My jaw is still on the floor after reading this article from the Beeb.

And they've discovered that while increased carbon dioxide (CO2) is the biggest cause of global warming, it also makes some plants grow faster which builds new soil and helps the land keep pace with rising sea levels.

"We've been doing this work for a quarter of a century," says Dr Megonigal. "That kind of long term data gives us something that short term experiments can't.

"We found that when you combine nitrogen with CO2, the positive effect on soil elevation is cut in half. So while increased CO2 helps the marsh keep pace with rising sea levels, increased nitrogen seems to work in the other direction. What you give with one hand you take with the other. It's a very complex situation."

CO2 is bad Nitrogen is bad, can't wait until they get around to Oxygen.

Nov 5, 2010 at 8:53 AM | Unregistered CommenterLord Beaverbrook

London, Tuesday 16th inst.
Drs Pielke Jr and Peiser

Nov 5, 2010 at 2:46 AM | Unregistered CommenterHaroldW

Does anyone remember that "Scientific Peer Review, ca. 1945" (a parody of the "Hitler explodes" scene from Der Untergang) videoclip that appeared on YouTube around the time of climategate? It was posted by a user who calls him/herself indusieumgresium. The video captions appear to demonstrate some knowledge of the climategate emails.

Someone called xyzlatin posted about it on WUWT in Dec. 2009: go to then seach for his user name to find the details. xyzlatin also posts on other blogs as "Chris in Australia", and he speculates that "indusieumgresium" could be the climategate whistleblower.

Here's something that may be significant and may not: I check out indusieumgresium's YouTube channel from time to time. He/she joined on 19 Nov 2009 and uploaded the "Scientific Peer Review, ca. 1945" video. Normally the profile shows no recent activity and no recent visits - he/she doesn't even seem to have gone back to check out what reception the video got. But today I noticed that indusieumgresium visited his/her channel three weeks ago.

I wonder if there could be a climategate 2?!

Of course, it could all just be coincidence - the timing and the similarity of themes between the videoclip and the content of the leaked/hacked emails. Intriguing, nonetheless.

Nov 4, 2010 at 3:08 PM | Unregistered CommenterTurning Tide

Looks like tonight’s C4 documentary "What the Green Movement Got Wrong" has ruffled a few feathers of those who appear in it. Will be an interesting watch with the debate afterwards. George Monbiot is making an appearance.

Nov 4, 2010 at 3:08 PM | Unregistered CommenterRoss H

Anyone catch John, 2 Jags, Prescott on the Today program this morning trying to resurrect the carbon case?
Unfortunately I only tuned in for the last minute but hypocracy was the first word that sprang to mind.

Nov 4, 2010 at 8:04 AM | Unregistered CommenterLord Beaverbrook

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