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Discussion > Is May's problem that her MPs hate what her voters want?

A bit of History, a bit of deduction, a bit of observation, but where is the hope?

1) Tory Party members were, like most of the population, 'for the Common Market', but gradually their allegiances have moved to wanting Sovereignty, yet they have been ineffectual in choosing candidates with similar views. This created a Parliamentary Tory Party dominated by Remainers: the Cabinet, even more so, ever since Ted Heath took us into the Common Market.

2) Tory Brexiter MPs have been newsworthy by their ineffectiveness, if only because the MSM portrays them as 'odd' and rarely gave them a chance to set the scene or pursue a train of thought: defending a stream of accusations doesn't advance the argument.

3) Remainer David Cameron, after initially hinting he 'disliked the EU' to get himself elected Tory leader, managed, with a little persuasion from Nigel Farage, to offer a referendum. It was a referendum that was to be a, final, to settle for ever, binary choice, a choice of one from two: In or Out, Leave or Remain.

4) And, while 'Brexit type' victories in referenda in EU countries have been dismissed many times, everyone knew that a Remain vote here would 'be for ever', or at least until the EU broke up. It would signal greater political integration even though there were promises such as 'No EU Army', by Nick Clegg. Perhaps those proclamations highlighted what was to come after a Remain vote. There would be 'no going back':
The Politics will be settled

5) The Referendum was organised by Remainers: absolutely everything, even the official Brexit organisation was chosen by a panel stuffed with Remainers. And they chose the Tory MP dominated Leave EU.

6) Farage started campaigning ahead of the others in the Brexit camp because Cameron was stopping the Brexiter Ministers from entering the fray while the Remainer ministers were allowed to campaign under the guise of 'Government Business': anything to hamper the opposition, including statements from international politicians and heads of international non-partisan organisations.

7) The Referendum ballot paper did not list the individual policies that would follow, for either side, but are they ever? No! It doesn't happen in general elections, and most voters don't read all the manifestos. What they do is tune into the News and Current Affairs programmes on radio and TV channels to listen to the discussions between the leading politicians - as most are too busy surviving, getting on with their on lives or looking after others, even if it is just keeping their manager at work happy (by delivering quality work on time)! :) There was plenty of information:
Leave means 'Leaving the Single Market'
(There's 6 minutes of it, but the first two minutes might be enough! :) )

Clegg's Single market Delusion
(a more bearable 2 minutes, in spite of NC's appearance)

8) In the Referendum, the Remainer, David Cameron, did not allow Brexiters access to state resources, including man power, information or expertise, to build their argument. They could only state what was wanted. Brexiters were not a government in waiting. This was due to Cameron's choice of dealing with his Brexit problem. Yet the MSM didn't understand this. There was also a Negotiation ahead, with an obstinate, vindictive, dysfunctional body with no responsibility and insulated from the decisions they made in order to advance their career within the Brussels bubble. This was true for the Remainers, yet they were rarely questioned, if all all.

9) In spite of Project Fear, the People spoke and the Remainer, David Cameron, did not fulfill his promise to 'implement what you decide'. He didn't even invoke Article 50.

10) The Tory Party elected Theresa May as their new leader, so she became the country's Prime Minister. She had progressed to the 'final' where the serious hustings would take place, except that they didn't - in the final, she received a bye, so no hustings, no need to gather supporters. But she was LOVED by Tory MPs: she was a 'Reluctant Remainer' and much better than all those awful Brexiters that fell by the wayside.

11) But then May realised (at some time :) ) that both Houses of Parliament had promised to do what Cameron hadn't done: 'implement what you decide'. She also realise a middle way would be as bad as staying in, but without any influence at all!

12) May did the honourable thing: she stated 'Brexit means Brexit'. As time went on, the decision proved to have even worse consequences than the Tory MPs could ever have thought possible. Yes, you guessed it, we were leaving the Single Market, we were going to leave the Customs Union. In fact, there were even the risks of having our fishing grounds returned to us, keeping our own army, regaining control of our borders, taxes and laws. Unthinkable, to Remainers!

13) Thirteen, Unlucky for some! And it has been for May, because of the consequences, she has been attacked on every front. Opposition from the opposition was to be expected. No, not from Corbyn, but from the Lib Dems, the SNP leader, local and international members of Project Fear, Gina Miller and her wealthy backers, the BBC and their reluctant licence payers :) and the rest of the MSM. What should not have been expected was the vindictive attacks from supposedly neutral bodies, such as the Judiciary and those who had made solemn promises, like the members of the House of Lords and the House of Commons. Yes, even her own MPs joined in the regicide. The name Soubry does come to mind.

14) May decided that she needed time to prepare for Article 50. It may have been the worse choice, but the arguments and delays were always going to arise and preparation was imperitive as Cameron had done nothing at all. The opening of another front would have risked ending up with two half finished tasks.

15) And how could the Judiciary find so much wrong with the Referendum result? Hadn't some of them participated in drawing up the arrangements for David Cameron? They might have been riddled with Remainer thoughts, but shouldn't they have done their job and provided water tight documents? Yes, I know they are lawyers, but they are still in their jobs!

16) Given this, no wonder she went to the country! I don't defend her campaign or for having a small team of un-elected experts, but what credible, reliable resources did she have? We don't know who lost the confidence of whom first, the but I am sure the 'first impressions', behind closed doors, at the first few Cabinet meetings must have been an eye opener for the new PM. It is amazing how accurate they can be. Rarely perfect in detail, but for determining which way the wind blows, astonishing accurate - depressingly so, I might add!

17) The Cabinet was still pretty full of Remainers, with their allies across the world, and the PM, with her allies like John Redwood, IDS and Farage :) and Trump :) :) :) were being ridiculed, interrogated and being asked for answers for which David Cameron should have at least done some preparation. He went off, around Europe, and came back with less than zero, yet he was never held to account. Typical MSM!

18) Who knew where it might lead: destruction of the Climate Change gravy train, all those immigrant appeal fees not appearing, no more very important 'on expenses' trips to Brussels and Strasbourg. And, with sovereignty returning to Westminster, there would be all that stuff that had been 'delegated upwards' to Brussels in their in-trays! Being an MP would actually involve real work, taking responsibility!

19) She thought, quite rightly, that having a majority just into double figures was a weakness when all Tory MPs had stood for parliament assuming that we would stay in the Single Market, and expecting a Remain victory that would ensure 'ever closer Union'. There was also the viciousness of the opposition to consider, and from so many quarters.

20) All of the re-elected Tory MPs, even those previously Remainers were re-elected supporting May and a Clean Brexit, and yet there are reports of many wanting to change their leader. Only a year ago they thought she was the best thing since sliced bread and then did everything to sabotage her and nothing to help her (which might have generated negative PR, but would have been genuine debate)! What a bunch of loons!

21) While Hannan, a Tory MEP, has pointed out that 90% of the MPs have been elected supporting Brexit, but it doesn't seem quite as comforting that it could have been:
Dailymail: DANIEL HANNAN: Don't panic! We can still get a strong deal with the most pro-Brexit House of Commons ever

22) And there's that name again! It shows you that May wasn't wrong:
Express, published today, June 11th: 'Ripping yourself apart!' Andrew Neil BLASTS Remainer Soubry over 'soft' Brexit push

Jun 11, 2017 at 3:45 PM | Registered CommenterRobert Christopher

There isn't any, it appears:
"THE Liberal Democrats are to join forces with Tory “Remain” MPs, Labour and the Scottish National Party in a bid to ambush beleaguered Theresa May over Brexit.
Secret talks were held between staff working for the MPs before the election and a plan drawn up to disrupt Mrs May’s Great Repeal Bill, which will turn EU law into British law.

Now they have vowed to capitalise on the Prime Minister’s weakened position since the General Election and plough ahead with plans to cause “gridlock” in Parliament unless Brexit Secretary David Davis makes key concessions.

It is understood they will now form a cross-party alliance to push for Britain to stay in the single market."
Express: Remoaners hatch cross-party plot to HALT people’s Brexit and remain in single market

What Tory “Remain” MPs?

All the Tory MPs were elected on a manifesto that meant leaving the Single Market.

It appears that The People have lost control.

Jun 11, 2017 at 6:11 PM | Registered CommenterRobert Christopher

RC,the people were never in control of Brexit. It has been apparent to me from the start that the powers that be, being against it, would stop at nothing to de-rail it. I still wouldn't be surprised if we end up staying in.

However, I think you're too kind to T May. She said again and again that she wouldn't call an early election, then did so the minute the opinion polls (has she learned nothing?) were just too tempting. A Thatcher in the making, to my mind (from me, that's most definitely NOT a compliment!). She didn't need to call an election - her majority, though not massive, was big enough to get done what needed to be done.

I think the chances of her being PM this time next month are about 50/50. If she's really sincere about Brexit she's done no end of harm to our ability to negotiate with the EU about it. Part of me wishes she would resign, but who would replace her?

Jun 11, 2017 at 7:20 PM | Unregistered CommenterMark Hodgson

"the people were never in control of Brexit"
We live in a representative democracy, where elected officials represent a group of people, but this did change when we had the Referendum.

Our representatives PROMISED TO IMPLEMENT what was decided by that national vote.

The Lib Dem Party does not understand that.

Anna Soubry and the other, anonymous 'Remainer' Tory MPs do not understand that either, and they don't understand that they were elected on a manifesto to explicitly keep that promise.

The Powers That Be need to understand that they have lost. Part of being in a Democracy is that, at some point, a decision has to be made and put to the test.

If it doesn't work out, then the other side has a go, and they have to give the policy some time to work and not sabotage it.

If the Law Makers break promises when nothing new has arisen, whither the Law Makers?


" I think you're too kind to T May"
...
A Thatcher in the making, to my mind"

Funny you should mention Thatcher! I had originally written this comparing May with her, but I then thought that a chronological trail of events would help clarify what has happened recently, and then my post was long enough!

We are used to the MSM agenda of treating every decision as a shallow 'us v them', without any analysis of the problems presented. My post is what used to be called the News, not a Current Affairs' Commentary, with an Agenda aligned with Marx rather than Business Reality.

We can see that the Climate Change Industries have raised energy prices and damaged the Power Industry. This has led to higher domestic fuel costs and workers losing their job to those in foreign countries. We therefore want this policy reversed, to the benefit of the country as a whole, but it will result in the loss of many jobs in the Solar and Windmill industries. We can see that these workers are productive in making windmills even though the windmills are wealth destructive, so let's move them into totally productive jobs.

Margaret Thatcher was in a similar position: coal was being sold at £90/ton on the international market yet being produced at £120/ton by workers enduring dreadful working conditions where, often the geology was not helpful. Fuel prices were hurting industry and domestic users, because of the high taxes and distorted energy and labour markets, and there was no end in sight. In addition, the Miners wanted to run the country, and had done after 1974!

Margaret Thatcher did what had to be done, but her weakness was that there were few who supported her in the areas that could have changed History.

For instance, I saw a programme (on Channel 4 ?) where the South Wales miners were offered clean, well paid jobs, above ground, with training, that created wealth, so were sustainable, yet they refused the offer. Why? Certainly, the union officials would have lost their status and, living in such tightly knit communities, they, and the workers, needed reassurance from community leaders to make the changes. Yet there was no one there for them. It was going to happen anyway, just like the demise of the Windmill Industry will be.

Another example was the need to enlarge the ship yards to allow new construction techniques developed during WWII, but that would have required knocking down the dockers' house' surrounding each yard, so that was NEVER mentioned.

In fact, in both cases, all we ever heard on the TV was the confrontations, never anything constructive. The car industry was treated in the same way.

And many in her party, and those who agreed with her policy direction, never helped at those crucial moments. All they had to do was state the obvious! That is what interests me.

The Wets in her party were, well, just Wet! They didn't want to know; they didn't care what the consequences were; any problem found would destroy their comfort zone, and to hell with anyone else - especially if they were 'not one of us'.

With this in mind, I thought that, may be T May has a similar problem: she has understood that the 'People Have Spoken' and 'A Promise Needs To be Kept' and had become isolated because her MPs were not supporting her. They could have been very constructive but, instead, we have Anna Soubry, as described in point 22.

I am sure that, in the Army during WWI, anyone acting like Anna Soubry would have been taken out and shot for less!


"She didn't need to call an election"
Even after the election, we have Point 22! T May needs to have a team to deal with the dysfunctional politicians across the Channel, and she didn't have one, not in the Parliamentary Tory Party as a whole. It was obvious, and the EU Elite knew that! While May has fewer MPs, she does have them committed to the new manifesto, and they now have extra reason to realise that being an MP of a party in government is for real. (I am looking on the bright side of life!)

She didn't want to fail the country because of traitors, with EU aspirations, in her own party. That is what happened to the first woman prime minister, and it put their party out of office for thirteen years.


"Part of me wishes she would resign, but who would replace her?"
So you agree that she should stay. At least Boris realised that, but what of the other Tory MPs: what a shower!

Jun 12, 2017 at 11:07 AM | Registered CommenterRobert Christopher

Robert Christopher

Agree 100%

Jun 12, 2017 at 2:09 PM | Registered CommenterDung

The MSM doing what they usually do, creating straw men:
GuidoFawkes: Jenkin: Morgan And Soubry Pack It In Or Corbyn Will Be PM
(2 min clip)

Jun 12, 2017 at 2:35 PM | Registered CommenterRobert Christopher

This is the real problem that the Tories need to address, short term:
LBC: Livid Conservative Voter’s Epic Theresa May Rant Is A Must-Watch

Jun 12, 2017 at 10:17 PM | Registered CommenterRobert Christopher